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    #100923 04/29/11 09:25 PM
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    Hi. I am not sure if I belong on this forum or not. I have a son with autism. He is turning 6 in a few weeks. I have always known that he is smart. He typically tests high average to above average on testing. But he is never interested in the tests, non-compliant, gets up and walks around or wants to do other stuff instead of the test. His school ST is really good at motivating him to work to his best so I was happy that she was going to test him for language. She did the TOLD4 test and I was surprised that most of the composites were in the 130's. The only score that wasn't "superior" or "very superior" was Listening. That one was high average with a SS or 114.

    She did the TOPL and his score was 103- but given his ASD diagnosis I thought it would be lower.

    So I just left his last ppt meeting with my head spinning.... His negative issues are so severe that he is being outplaced to a special school which was the main point of this last IEP meeting. But now I wonder if I'm missing something else.

    He's had cognitive testing twice. The WPPSI when he was 4.5 showed non-verbal IQ 119 and Verbal 101. But he was non-compliant, kept running around the room etc so the Dr said those scores were lower than his ability....

    Then when he was 5 he had the DAS II in a ASD research study and his verbal was 117 and non-verbal was 91. Again a split, but in the opposite direction from the last testing. Again, he kept getting up to fixate on a mirror and was disinterested with the testing.

    So I guess I wonder if I belong on this board? I'm not sure what types of scores are even considered gifted and my son's scores aren't really THAT high. I'll probably be reading a lot around here to see if this is something I should pursue with my son.

    Jennifer


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    Hi, welcome!
    I am not familiar with the TOLD4 test, but it sounds possible you have the common 2e problem of scores one day being average to even quite low, and then some testing scores more like what your child is really capable of on a great day...Our ds10 is like that.
    Perhaps someone else around here is more familiar with that test and can speak to what those scores 'mean' re: giftedness.

    Have you checked out hoagies? or googled around for info on that test? Best of luck, this is a great forum for info. Figuring out what a gifted kid needs is hard (really hard)... of course, figuring out what a 2e kid needs can be even more complicated!!

    Last edited by chris1234; 05/01/11 02:16 PM.
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    chris1234 #101054 05/01/11 03:16 PM
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    Hi, thanks for responding! I will check out the other site. The TOLD P4 is not an IQ test it's a language test- Test of Language Development. When I told his private therapists about his scores they all said they aren't surprised. Yet this is the same boy that doesn't know how to return a greeting from a peer and had to be taught scripts which is still struggles with. But he can converse with adults and sound formal even for an adult. His K teacher says that if given free time he gravitates to the math and science stuff and art (rather than pretend play or writing etc). He's very smart but he doesn't want to follow the schools agenda so he ends up getting almost no instruction and he had huge behavioral problems there. So bad that they finally had to outplace him and he was already in the autism program.
    Our choices were schools for kids with emotional disturbance- the kids there are all very verbal and cognitively most are at least ave. The other choice was an ASD specific school where the kids have social deficits and sensory issues like my son but he will probably be at the top language and cognitive wise for the most part. We chose the ASD school because of my concern (and all of his private therapists) that he would pick up very negative things at the ED schools. (some kids do stuff like fire setting, swearing, sexual comments at age 6 etc)
    I'm wishing that there was a school with really small classes that was more self-directed where he would learn. He is interested in a variety of things and smart- but it's all of his own terms and self-directed. I never have a problem getting him to do school work at home because he wants to do it and usually chooses to do it on his own. At school he won't do anything without them giving him candy, having him work for rewards etc. He bolts from the classroom and his, bites, kicks, the whole deal. He also has an anxiety issue with being around groups of kids and about performing in front of others. He is a major perfectionist so if he perceives that he won't be able to do something as well as the rest of the kids he just won't do it. Never mind that his reading and math achievement is above grade level, it's all in how he perceives himself and he perceives himself to be at the bottom. Partially my fault for always trying to work on his weaknesses all these years while neglecting his strength. I think I made him feel like he's not good enough. At home we have switched to an RDI approach to try to help things.
    Anyway, thanks again for responding.
    Just another thing- my son is an awesome dancer. He loves Michael Jackson and can copy his dances and just has a way of moving his body that makes it look so easy. But he WILL NOT do it in front of people he doesn't know extremely well. He took a music class for awhile (preschool music) and the teacher pulled me aside and said he had musical talent with the beat and drums. But again, he won't do it in music class or in groups. We ended up having to stop the music class because he was obsessed with the drums and microphone and had no interest in following the routine of the class. I just couldn't handle to looks and stares from the other parents anymore when their kids were 2 years younger and socially more appropriate than my son. The parents were all so relaxed while I was working my butt off and I felt judged.

    Jennifer


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    Have you considered homeschooling? It might allow you to separate out the social skills instruction and practice from the academics, taking a lot of pressure off you both. It also allows a lot more freedom to schedule OT and other therapies when you aren't worried about your child having to miss school to attend.


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    ah homeschooling... yes. I have considered it. I was planning to homeschool both kids until they were diagnosed with autism. That is when I decided to send them to school. It was the only way to get therapy because insurance doesn't cover it and school wouldn't provide it without enrollment. It's still an option though and will continue to be an option if things do not work out. The hard part about it is that I'm a single parent and their father lives several states away.


    Jennifer
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    What I may do when he settles into his new school is ask if they will test his IQ at school. Both times it was tested when he was younger were at appointments in the Dr's office and it was the first time he was ever there. At school he would be used to the environment and it could be spread out over more time. But I still don't know if his IQ matters or not as far as if it's gifted or not. In CT there are no gifted programs that I am aware of, let alone twice exceptional.


    Jennifer
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    I need to do some research. I never even thought about this before so I have no idea what anything means. (TAG program etc) Up until last Thursday everything in my mind has been all about the disability.


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    Hi and welcome,
    I have a child that is 2-E - High IQ and profoundly dyslexic. We struggle with how to provide him the remediation he needs and at the same time grow his gifts and challenge him. I'm not sure if we have made the right choice, but we enrolled him in an LD school in grade 3, and have found that the school has been able to place him with other complex and very bright learners that share a similar profile.

    I am not sure if the school the district is offering you would do this, but if so, it could be a great opportunity for him to build his skills in areas of weakness, and still be academically challenges. I would do some real digging to find out how they group students, what they use for curriculum and what kind of instruction and or behavioral methods they use to address areas of need.

    You may want to try this forum to get more info about ASD, testing, IEP, remediation, etc http://millermom.proboards.com/index.cgi

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    I wouldn't usually say this because I'm very much a devoted non-church goer. But for a single mom struggling to raise a socially challenged child you might consider visiting local churches until you find ones that wants to help you. There will be old folks and young teens with the patience to include your child and parents who feel like they should be supportive of your emotional needs. I hate to think you're suffering trying to be strong.
    As for the gifted part, regardless of any kind of testing or scores, if your son is interested in math and science what's the harm in letting those be his interests? Consider buying toys that remind you of these for his Christmas or birthdays:
    http://www.mathartfun.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/index.html
    Google paper airplanes or find a book and make that his hobby for awhile.
    Poor baby and my condolences for not having much of a selection of schooling options.

    Also, I have recently read and would highly recommend the book "your child's strengths". By Jenifer Fox, which is like you were saying how to focus on developing a child's strengths. You're not going to find your life passion inside your personal area of weeknessz.


    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar
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