Originally Posted by Val
Two ideologies don't make a right. And I never argue from an ideological standpoint. Any similarity between my views and someone's ideology is coincidental.

Maybe you'll notice that I wasn't arguing from an ideology so much as attacking his?

Nah.

Originally Posted by Val
In math class, elementary school teachers appear to rely heavily on memorized algorithms and lightly on the concepts behind them. The textbooks are generally no better. This is, I believe, a huge reason for why so many American students do so poorly with algebra. Primary-level teachers need to understand high school mathematics so that they can ensure that their students understand foundational ideas that are critically important in future math classes. When the kids just memorize a bunch of algorithms, how can they start applying concepts in algebra class? Answer: most of them can't. And can someone who managed even an average or slightly higher than average SAT math or reading score honestly be able to be]teach the finer points of high school math or literature? Answer: it's unlikely.

Your answer actually hits a major frustration that a lot of people I know have the teaching establishment: low expectations. If we lower our expectations for educators, why should we be surprised when the educational establishment advocates lowering expectations for students? For example, see the Is Algebra necessary? thread. If teacher got a professional job with SAT scores of 470, why should s/he worry about how fractions and division are related or how they'll feed into algebra and geometry? None of this was necessary to get a professional job as a teacher, right?

Nothing will change in this country's education system until we finally admit out loud that a large portion of our public teaching corps is unqualified for the job, and that this situation is not okay. No one arguing that we need to pay our teachers more or protect them better will ever have credibility outside of edumacation circles without also admitting that 1) schools of education need to raise their standards a lot and 2) teacher pay should be based on more than just your years of experience and highest degree obtained (regardless of subject). Change this stuff in a meaningful way and I'll start shouting to pay them more, too.

Honestly, I can't be bothered to care about how a teacher did on a specific test they took when they were still in high school. You might as well make hiring and firing decisions based on 3rd-grade report cards. "Well, it says here you're a really fast learner, but I'm sorry, we don't have a role for someone who needs more work on penmanship and doesn't raise their hand before speaking."

Primary school teachers should understand high school mathematics, on account of they went there, and got the framed paper. If they don't, then I agree, that's a problem. But at this point I'm forced to point out the contradiction, because on one hand the argument is that we need more talented teachers, and on the other hand, the argument is that we're overcompensating them.

You get what you pay for.