I am new on this forum and hope that I can get a sanity check on my child. I have read every post on gifted children I could read on the internet and still I am confused on my child and the question of Is he or isn't he gifted????? (I am so confused)

My son will be entering 2nd grade this year. When he entered kindergarten, he did not know how to read. We had practiced his site words and math facts (add/subtraction) the summer before so he knew words entering into K. At the end of K, he had been tested to be at a GE level of 2.6. At the end of 1st, his reading tested at GE 4.6.

Short story on his math abilities, his Star test score at the end of 1st grade is at SS 643, GE >4. I feel comfortable that he understand and can do math problems thru 3rd grade. We have worked on 4th grade math and he is stronger on some 4th grade skill then others but I think by the time school starts in a month, he should be pretty strong in the 4th grade math skill sets.

My problem is that my son did not just start reading on his own or doing 3 digit multiplication on his own. He has worked really hard to get where he is today. We read 30 minutes a day and do math 30 minutes a day outside of school (including the summer months) and in 2 years, the above results are where he is in math and reading. The star results show that currently for both reading he is at 99% PR. Once again, he did not just magically get there on his own but he and I have worked together on his reading and math.

Is he smart or gifted? Does every child have the potential if they applied themselves to test higher then their current grade level? Can I expect other children to catch up with him in 3rd grade with their math and reading abilities?

I would love to hear if anyone has an opinion on my son. My sister who has a girl the same age says that I expect too much out of my son but I think 1 hour of school work, outside of school/summer in place of his eyes glued to a computer/TV is not too much to ask for in a child. Am I wrong?

I won't comment on whether your son is gifted. I think no matter what label a kid gets, as parents we want to find the learning environment that matches their needs, instill in the children that strong work ethic is required regardless of innate abilities, and everyone will be able to achieve something with hard work. Even if a few other kids catch up next year, so what? Your son will still be better off than not working hard.

I think whether an hour is too much depends on the child. If your son thinks it's appropriate, it most likely is. If he gets tired, frustrated, impatient or tells you that he doesn't want to do it, then it's too much. My kids didn't do that much extra math at that age (actually didn't do extra math at all in 1st grade), but they did plenty of music instrument practice. So I'd say watch your son, he'd let you know.

Can an IQ test distinguish between "gifted" and "high achiever"? (and BTW I think the ability to work hard and achieve is a great thing for a kid to have). An IQ tests is not cheap, but it may help answer some questions.

I think an enriched environment is only worth so much - a kid also has to have the potential to take advantage of it.

Welcome!

Your child appears to have accomplished enormous growth and high achievement with your support. You know your child best. As discussed often on the forums, there is a fine line between supporting a child's growth and abilities by setting high, reasonable expectations -vs- pushing a child, which in many cases may not be sustainable and/or may lead to social, emotional and/or trust issues. (Search for posts on hothousing or tiger parenting.)

Formally identifying a child as "gifted" most often occurs through a process of IQ testing.

Gifted children do not match all of the common early milestones. However there is often a complexity of thought and ideas, evidence of making connections between concepts, and a creative/innovative/novel aspect to their questions and answers. This may be different than rote recitation of facts.

Even children who meet early milestones do not do so magically but are typically thought to have keen awareness, strong powers of observation, internally motivating levels of curiosity, and/or focus which fuels their ability to learn from casual exposure to concepts from others in their environment (indirect instruction). For example, experiencing a parent reading to them, they may begin to match sounds to words on the page, without explicit direct instruction.

Unfortunately, no. For example, a child with an IQ of 70 may not perform like a child with an IQ of 130. However, current understanding is that a child with an IQ of 70 (nature) may have strengths and interests which can be built upon... and may be supported (nurture) to learn more than children with an IQ of 70 typically learned in the past.

This depends upon the child and the environment (nature and nurture). Although external systems may frequently make comparisons among individuals, internalizing a pattern of comparison with others may become toxic. Some may say it is better to focus on being the best self one can be, rather than focusing on being the best in a certain group, when measured by specific criteria.

This may depend upon whether the learning is fun and engaging, especially for a young child. Kids may benefit from being encouraged to listen to their internal voice which expresses an interest in a topic or area of study, and receiving support to find resources to feed that interest (which reinforces being internally motivated), rather than having areas of study prescribed (which may eventually lead to a child being externally motivated and possibly feeling quite under-confident in choosing his/her own path and persisting on his/her journey).

Also, do not underestimate the value of physical activity and imaginative play.

The work of Carol Dweck, and her book mindset may be of interest.

If my child had complete control over his day, he would be on the computer most of the day if not all the day. One of his favorite games is Mindcraft. If he was bored of the computer, he would then move over to the TV where he has discovered that the Disney channel makes non-cartoon shows that he is interested in. However, because I refuse to allow him to be glued to the TV/computer, currently he will never have a day that he can make all the decisions on how to spend his time. When it is not hot, he is forced to go outside with his siblings and ride his bike, play on the jungle gym or shoot some hoops with me. I try to balance his day between school/school work/outside play/ and computer/TV watching.

My guess (and I am just a parent, not an expert): Your son is definitely smart (as in above average). Gifted - not sure at all. It wouldn't be surprising that he is ahead of the class with an additional hour of individual instruction year-round (which I would expect to be much more focused than in a classroom setting). When I look at the elementary school guidelines - they are set very low, and there is a lot of repetition built in (addition from 1-10, 1-20, to 100 etc.).
My kid tested as gifted, and while we don't do nearly as much academic learning as you at home, I think what is amazing about him is that he understands concepts very quickly, with minimal "instruction" and repetition. I still don't know how to teach a kid how to read. Though he reads in three languages well above official grade level. And while he is not at the same level as some of the kids on this board, his math is still years ahead as well.
So my question back to you would be about how your son learns. And was there anything unusual about him in his first years? For instance, at his second b-day, my eldest did 60-100 piece puzzles essentially by himself (though he did want us to sit next to him).

He is my first child and I had no schooling expectations and didn�t really do anything with him until the summer before K when I just wanted to see what he could learn. (and to make sure he was not on the computer/TV for the full summer with nothing to show for his intellectual growth). The only thing we noticed is that he does memorize things fairly quickly. We noticed that he had that skill when he was around 3. His Pre-K teacher said he was a fast learner. In K, he was moved to an accelerator class that met 1 hour a day. While only 3 students in each class could go to the program and it was a rotation on which 3 kids could attend from each class, he was invited to attend as a full time student to the class. His K teacher was also impress how quickly he learned to read and towards the end of the school year, she asked him to read to the class during reading time so she could work on other projects. In first grade they had a pullout gifted class for 1st grade that he was a part of. In that class, he helped tutor some K students (their whole class did that). The teacher let me know that she used him to also help teach some of his other classmates math to those who were struggling. She said sometimes a child teaching another child a concept could teach it on a child to child language level where the child would understand it better from coming from another child then coming from a teacher (adult language level) He will again be in a gifted class for 2nd grade and I hope his new teacher will at least put him in a math class that actually teaches him something new so I don�t feel the need to continue math enrichment outside of school as up until now, the hour he spends in math at school is not teaching him anything new and it bothers me that he is not learning on his pace but what the school needs him to learn to pass that grade. I have no idea what his potential is at math but I would like his abilities and not the school to make that decision.

My son's path is similar to yours, and my questions are the same as yours. When my son was in Headstart, we discovered a "children's college" at our local 2 yr college. Started taking a phonics and math class every Saturday, year-round. A year later when he started kindergarten, he could read every sight book, and could add and substract 2 digit numbers. By then at the children's college, he advanced to multiplication and division. So at the start of 1st grade he could easily do 2 and 3 digit numbers. By the start of 2nd grade, he was doing fractions. As to reading at the college, he was doing 4 grade grammar. Then, in the middle of second grade, we entered CTY talent search. He got High Honors. Started taking CTY classes online. Again, year round. He should finish CTY/Thinkwell algebra 1 in a couple of months (weak "A" average). He now at a CTY Summer residential program studying data and chance.

At school, he will enter 5th grade. I have always used the term "advanced", when describing him. We don't allow any TV or computer playtime during the week. The time commitment is 50 minutes CTY math, and 10 minutes vocabulary (WORDLYWISE) 3-4 times per week. In addition, on the weekends, he does a packet of math/English test-like material that I prepare. There is great flexibility in the schedule. We have gone weeks w/o any extra work when school work conflicted.

The payoff: 3rd grade scored 100% on ERB math section; 4th grade scored three "9" stanine, and a "7" on CPT-4. Don't know if true, but was told that these results would get him into most elite boarding schools in U.S. Yes, there is exra work on his part, but w/o televison, he needs something to fill the time. Plus, he is so proud of his success and numerous awards. Again, I consider him advanced.

You may wish to remove your son's name from your post. Commonly our children are anonymously referred to as:
DC dear children
DD dear daughter, sometimes followed by age (DD7 = age 7)
DS dear son, sometimes followed by age (DS10 = age 10)

Acronyms are covered in this thread: List of Common Gifted Acronyms.

It seems to be that it is often much more apparent to others how bright / gifted / advanced our children are than it is to us as parents. We had heard a ton from friends about how well my DS talked for his age and how personable he was. Even we as his parents had figured that part out but didn't necessarily think that it meant a whole lot. When he was 2, a retired school teacher told us out-of-the-blue that that she thought he was a genius, even though he wasn't doing anything even remotely prodigious (and she wasn't using hyberbole, either). I still don't get that one. To be honest, we didn't realize the level of his intelligence until the results of his IQ assessment came back. Even then I was convinced that the psychologist had made a mistake. She hadn't.

This is, apparently, a common phenomenon. Here are a couple of recent threads:

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....8175/Re_Gifted_Does_anyone_feel_dou.html
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....5701/Perception_on_LOG_with_my_chil.html

Anyways, if you don't really see a problem and the school is challenging him enough, I wouldn't worry about whether he tests at the gifted level (arguably about 2 SDs above the mean, or about 130 on most IQ scales). However, if you feel that the school isn't going to lead on being able to challenge your son adequately, it's worth getting an IQ test to gain some perspective about how your son learns and what his areas of strength and weakness are cognitively. That also will give you more information to be able to make a case for your son for different types of acceleration (if necessary).

The fact that you are asking for a sanity check (unless you meant that as a hyperbole) suggests that there is a problem or pressing issue that you are trying to resolve. This forum can be very helpful in that regard.

On the specific question of whether your DS is smart or gifted, I imagine that it would be impossible to ascertain based on an online post, even by a professional. Sometimes it is really clear whether a child is gifted but when there are not unequivocally obvious signs, you need an IQ test or equivalent. GEs are kind of meaningless, particular in the context of at-level testing. I remember all my kids testing at absurdly high GE levels, which in no way reflect their actual readiness to be at that level. Again, you need an IQ test or equivalent. This does not mean that your DS can't be gifted, simply that you don't have enough information in his case. You mentioned that your DS is about two years ahead in math after two years of daily 30-minute instruction. Perhaps you can request testing by your district for possible subject acceleration? In our district, they use a proprietary cognitive math ability assessment on kids who passed curriculum based assessments in order to determine acceleration. This has the added benefit of differentiating between hardworking high achieving kids from mathematically gifted high achieving kids.

All kids could do better with additional help but if all kids were given additional help they would not all achieve at the same level. Not all gifted kis are self taugbt though. Mine are both HG+ and tbey need teaching

I would say that the question of whether your child is gifted or not has likely already been answered by his school. They're providing him with gifted services, so they must have assessed him in some fashion and determined that he required them.

And given that his knowledge/skills far exceeds age norms already, I'd say that no, the one hour of after-schooling is not necessary.

I hear what you're saying about not wanting him to spend all day in front of the TV or playing Minecraft, but we're only talking about one extra hour of the day, and it sounds like you're already doing a good job of making sure he gets some of the other things he needs... play time with others, exercise, etc. So:

1) Would one more hour of TV or Minecraft really be a problem?
2) Are there other things he could do with that time besides reading and math with you?

With an extra hour in his day, he could:

- Do art projects/puzzles
- Pursue an interest in science or history
- Play with other kids
- Learn a musical instrument
- Join a theater group

etc.

Learn a second language.

At your son's age my son still loved to cuddle up and be read to and discuss books. Sometimes he read to me to give me a break taking turns...but instead of it being academic time it was more "our special time together doing something we both enjoyed"


But I do know about trying to keep some of these kids mind engaged...or else we have major sibling problems....we were go go go go all the time.

Library programs, summer movie programs at the movie theater (low price but second run movies, we didn't care), parks and recs special events, stacks and stack of books from the library, scavenger hunts looking for books needed to be returned.

One summer we read a sponge bob book where he started a newspaper so my son wanted to write out own newspaper...I still have it....so stinking cute. Now that he is a big 15 year old we happen to be friends with the owner of the local small weekly paper...it would have been so fun to tour his business and learn from them and show them his paper when he was six. I love those spontaneous projects that they dream up.

Oh...Home Depot or lowes kid building projects where you go and build all sorts of stuff. I think at Home Depot you get an apron and pins for each project. My kids ate that stuff up as little kids.

Hi Maren,

I didn't have time to read the other replies, so forgive me if I say something that's already been said twice or more


I can't tell you if your ds is gifted, but really, does it matter? Every child, no matter what their ultimate abilities are, appreciates and deserves to have a chance to learn at the level they are capable of learning. It sounds like that's what you're trying to do for your son, so I wouldn't get caught up in worrying about a label like "gifted". If you feel that the school needs to be doing more in terms of offering your ds more advanced work, then the school might want to test him to determine if he's gifted, but for working with him on your own, I don't think it matters. What *does* matter is - does he enjoy what you're doing at home, or are you pushing him? There are only so many hours in a day, and childhood goes by so quickly. We had to do differentiation and extra work at home for my 2e kids, and I have to be honest - I'd give anything to have those hours of their childhood back just to play! If a child is asking to sit down and learn new math concepts, that's ok, teach it to him, but if he's not, or if he's not happy with doing it, I wouldn't bother with it - even if he was profoundly gifted. Being gifted doesn't mean you automatically love math or reading or spending extra time studying outside of school.


I don't think every child has the potential to test higher than their grade level, but based on what I've seen in my local school district, I think that there are a large chunk of children who could test ahead of grade level if they had one-on-one tutoring at the rate they were able to learn in the absence of classroom distractions and disruptions. I also think it's quite possible there are kids in his classroom who are not receiving outside help with reading who are reading several grade levels ahead - only because I saw that in my own children's classes. That doesn't mean your ds isn't a very smart child and it doesn't mean he isn't gifted - it's just my perception that in the first few years of school, achievement is very much correlated with exposure, and your ds is getting extra exposure at this point in time that his classmates aren't. The other thing that I saw happen with kids in my kids classes in K-2 grade was that learning to read didn't happen at the same time/rate for every child - the kids who went into school already reading were sometimes still ahead of grade level by 3rd grade, but not always. Other kids, like my ds, were not reading at all, but once he started reading it caught on like wildfire. His best friend still wasn't reading at the end of K, but he caught on al by himself over the summer and was reading ahead of grade level at the start of 1st grade, with no help from parents. A few grades later on, I think you'll see a split in achievement that more truly correlates to actual ability.


I think you care a lot about your child, and that's not wrong. I also don't think any approach to parenting is "wrong". I personally wouldn't bother with it - I do think an hour a day doing school work outside of school is a lot... but my opinion is probably skewed because a full day of school actually tired my 2e kids out a lot - not from intellectual stimulation but from the difficulty of dealing with disabilities. I'm also looking at this as the parent of teens who are close to grown, wishing I could have a huge chunk of that time when they were young back Other than those 2 potential biases, my main reason for not doing that kind of direct studying related to school curriculum is two-fold: first, they will get it in school, so why duplicate? If the school pace isn't fast enough, then try to get the extra tutoring done in/through school first. Second reason - if your intent is to foster the love of learning and to develop your ds' intellectual gifts, I'd spend that hour a day learning about subjects he's interested in, going to museums or the library, watching NOVA or whatever, writing stories, making art, etc. Being gifted isn't really about being "ahead" of the game, it's about thinking and reasoning power. It's about all the cool ideas inside of our kids' heads. If we have a kid who's born to do math and craves it and begs to learn more, that's ok to teach more. But if you're just teaching math and reading to get him ahead, I'd drop that and focus the outside-of-school learning on topics that aren't going to be covered in school.

Please note - I'm not saying don't push for him to be taught at the level of learning he's capable of. I'd just not spend an hour teaching my child just to get him ahead if he was doing a-ok in his classroom and not bored to tears.

Best wishes,

polarbear