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    Joined: Mar 2015
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    I get the feeling that many of us with HG kiddos originally underestimated their LOG until after they were assessed with a cognitive test. For us, my spouse and I were downright shocked when we sat down with the psychologist who had administered DS6's WISC-IV and went over the results. My first reaction was, "There has to be some sort of mistake because he seems so normal!" The psychologist, in response, laughed for a good 5 seconds at me before explaining that it is nearly impossible to get a false high on the WISC.

    But it certainly has me wondering about my perception. I've talked with close friends, and they were not surprised at all about his LOG, which makes me wonder what it is I am not seeing. I'm his parent, after all! Shouldn't I be able to see this better than most people? So now I'm trying to look harder at how he thinks and how he expresses himself. For instance, he's always been really good at playing with whatever kids he can find on the playground. It doesn't seem to matter age, gender, or personality. He will find a few of then and they will be stuck to each other like glue after a few minutes. Sure, I think if given an infinite supply of children, he'd gravitate towards playing with girls 3 or more years older, but whatever the situation, he makes it work. He will drastically alter his playing style to whatever seems to suit the crowd. I've always just assumed that this was normal behavior, but now I'm wondering if it's some kind of social intelligence-based ability? I'm also afraid that, now that I am looking for things, I'm seeing "giftedness in everything" when it's simply normal most of the time. It's hard: I'm trying not to be that guy but I'm also looking for "tells" that I can hold onto.

    And now I wonder if he's been adaptive like this not just on the playground but everywhere. I think he behaves more like an adult when in the company of adults and more like a normal 6-year-old around the company of 6-year-olds. We get the "You have the most extraordinary child"-type comments all the time from friends and strangers alike. Yet his teacher says that while he is bright, he's not brightest in a class of 14 (we were told this was a reason they did not want to accelerate him when we asked).

    Next year, we are going to try a private gifted school (which the whole family is excited about), but now I'm wondering... if his classmates are mostly mild to moderately gifted, will he blend in "too well" like he does everywhere else? Will his teachers even recognize that he may need further acceleration? And how would I know if he's not getting what he needs?

    Anyways, thanks for listening!

    Last edited by George C; 05/07/15 08:13 AM.
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    I can totally sympathize with this. We have a somewhat similar situation with a DS4 who can quickly adapt to just about anything (except boredom). It is a subtle thing - like the Dog that Didn't Bark in that Sherlock Holmes story.

    If your child is DYS eligible I would go ahead and apply - the get togethers in Reno seem like a great way to meet peers with a high LOG.

    We do gifted private school and I had similar concerns about MG blending - but I figure this is the best we can do right now (and it seems to be working).

    BTW (and this is no knock on teachers - they have a hard job) teachers are terrible at determining giftedness. If a kid has a, say, 1 in 500 cognitive profile it is likely that he is the only kid that far out on the curve she has ever taught or will ever teach.


    Last edited by cmguy; 05/07/15 07:58 AM.
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    George, you've just described my DD.

    We don't even have testing for her. There seemed little point, since she is so socially savvy, and has been since infancy, that there's no way that we would believe any numbers that we DID have. She has this ability to read people that is stunning even in adults-- and she's had that ability since she was a toddler. As soon as she picks up "I'm surprised" or even "not entirely comfortable here" she immediately changes her approach and makes you doubt what you've just seen.

    She has done this with people trained to evaluate children.

    She's functionally capable of doing things that no MG or even most HG children should be able to do, given her other profile (normative EF, more or less, etc.)-- and yet many of the people in her life NEVER see that side of her. She's not a "demonstrator" of such things. So as a parent, you'll see flashes of super-human ability and then be left wondering if you imagined it. Well, no-- I mean, there's no way that the RATE at which she learned to read was feigned. There's no faking that kind of arc.

    The only times that you see that kind of thing from her, though, are when her (immature) ability to discern what is actually expected doesn't match up with reality. So getting a stack of 25 novels for AP Literature as a 13yo-- she assumed that she needed to have read. them. all. by the first week of class.

    Being given a stack of 'background' reading of peer reviewed articles and book chapters in her first day of a STEM internship, similarly-- she thought that was "this day's reading," (not understanding that it was intended to fill the first two to three weeks, maybe be "homework" for the rest of the 10 week internship... so she finished them by the end of the afternoon. (This was ~250 pages of undergraduate-to-graduate level reading in a cross-disciplinary specialty).

    She gave herself away with that one-- but only because the laboratory PI had seen PG teens before and because she knows that they really are capable of that kind of super-human behavior, having a connection to one of the US universities that runs a large, well-known, and long-time program for such students. Most people just would not have believed it-- and would have experienced cognitive dissonance when DD proved to everyone in the lab that she had absorbed and understood every word.

    Now, people who are familiar with garden-variety gifted children? Oh, they see all of the "tells" and then some-- so from them, once in a blue moon, we'll get that slack-jawed "I've only HEARD about _________, and now I've seen it in a real child..." when they had thought that she was "only" MG/HG. They know she is accelerated, so they do probably assume that she's HG. But many of them haven't ever seen a truly PG child. Those who have get this gleam in their eye and want to let us know what she is. Yes, we know... whistle

    Mostly, DD delivers precisely what others expect and seem to want from her. Period. She doesn't draw undue attention, and she likes it that way. She is highly motivated to make other people LIKE her, and to make them feel good. That IS her passion, much as some PG children are obsessed with math or chess. Like them, she is amazing accomplished.

    She is a social prodigy. Period.

    I think that you've correctly identified the largest challenge with such children. Figure out which parent/adult in your son's life has the user's manual to your child's brain and psyche-- and leverage that. In our household, it's me. Another member here, it's a father-daughter pair. That's what it was for me, too (PG dad, and EG me).

    I've learned to trust my gut with my DD, because she is too able to fool everyone else. I know when she is giving something her all (well, I have a better idea than most people, anyway). However, she is even able to fool those who have known her for many years, and those who routinely work with children, even gifted ones.

    Getting adequate challenge for such children is NOT a picnic, that's for sure. Get used to being labeled a Helicopter Parent (or much worse).


    Proof that we weren't just pressuring it all to happen:

    her knocking back 99th percentile scores on PSAT (her first such testing experience ever), SAT, and ACT-- at 12 and 13 yo.

    And no, I do not mean 99th percentile among 12 and 13yo children. I mean among high school juniors and seniors.

    She didn't know that she wasn't supposed to do that. We never let on, and so she did. wink Do with that anecdote what you will.



    Last edited by HowlerKarma; 05/07/15 08:24 AM.

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    Originally Posted by George C
    Yet his teacher says that while he is bright, he's not brightest in a class of 14

    This might be true (or it might not be true). What is *for certain* true is that EG/PG/average really don't have any one *look* - every child presents their own unique personality to the world, and not every child (or adult) chooses to put their intelligence on display. Teachers and even parents can get a biased view of what extremely gifted *should* "look" like - but that doesn't work. Every individual is exactly that - an individual.

    I do think it's possible, though, that there might have been another HG+ child in your child's class at school. I know other students who've been id'd as HG+ in our school district through district testing, and to be honest, they weren't necessarily the students I would have walked into class and instantly recognized (and some of these are kids I know well :))

    Quote
    (we were told this was a reason they did not want to accelerate him when we asked).

    Just because there are HG+ peers in his class isn't a reason to not provide an appropriate curriculum. Maybe it's an indication they should *all* be accelerated. Or maybe it's an opportunity for in-class differentiation. In any event, it's not a valid reason for the school to ignore the educational needs of your ds smile

    Quote
    Next year, we are going to try a private gifted school (which the whole family is excited about), but now I'm wondering... if his classmates are mostly mild to moderately gifted, will he blend in "too well" like he does everywhere else? Will his teachers even recognize that he may need further acceleration? And how would I know if he's not getting what he needs?

    You'll know if he's getting what he needs by staying involved in knowing what's going on in class - you'll talk to your ds, you'll get to know the teachers, you'll stay on top of it. You'll advocate. It won't be a situation where you can just send your ds off to school in the morning and trust that all will be well... but really, no matter what the LOG (or not)... isn't that what involved parents *do*?

    It might not be easy, but you'll be on top of it and you'll do everything you can to support your child and advocate for him. I believe that in the end, it will work out ok smile And if it doesn't, you'll most likely change schools (knock on wood that doesn't have to happen!!!)

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    Originally Posted by cmguy
    If your child is DYS eligible I would go ahead and apply - the get togethers in Reno seem like a great way to meet peers with a high LOG.

    He would qualify for the cognitive requirements of DYS if we used his GAI but not his FSIQ (there is only a 7 point difference). Plus, GAI was not reported on his writeup (I had to calculate it myself with the help of the forum here smile ). Do they care about things like this?

    We also haven't done any achievement testing yet, as we haven't had reason to. And, to be honest, the option about showing work demonstrating several years above grade level with 4 different subjects sounds exhausting. I don't have any idea what grade level really is, nor would I even know where to begin with that.

    I'm keeping a DYS application in the back of my head, but it's not really a priority at the moment. I'm also waiting to see what kind of support I'm going to get from his new school in the fall. It might not really be all that critical to apply him to DYS.

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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    George, you've just described my DD.
    See? I knew I wasn't alone. smile

    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    Mostly, DD delivers precisely what others expect and seem to want from her. Period. She doesn't draw undue attention, and she likes it that way. She is highly motivated to make other people LIKE her, and to make them feel good. That IS her passion, much as some PG children are obsessed with math or chess. Like them, she is amazing accomplished.
    I have a science and nature enthusiast on my hands with an incredible power to absorb and apply information. He will sit and watch episode after episode of NOVA and Nature, and then correctly apply some law of physics he learned about months before in a completely unrelated situation. So his LOG becomes much more obvious if you get him talking about either of these things.

    Or if you get him telling jokes based on plays on words. He wrote these:

    Q: What's the sharpest letter of the alphabet?
    A: The X!
    Q: What's the wettest letter of the alphabet?
    A: The C!

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    Originally Posted by polarbear
    Originally Posted by George C
    Yet his teacher says that while he is bright, he's not brightest in a class of 14
    I do think it's possible, though, that there might have been another HG+ child in your child's class at school. I know other students who've been id'd as HG+ in our school district through district testing, and to be honest, they weren't necessarily the students I would have walked into class and instantly recognized (and some of these are kids I know well :))
    Yes. I'm honestly not concerned whatsoever if there is someone brighter than him in his classroom. In fact, I think we'd all prefer it that way, as it would give him a much better chance of finding an intellectual peer in his classroom (something we hope he will be able to find more easily next year).

    Originally Posted by polarbear
    Quote
    (we were told this was a reason they did not want to accelerate him when we asked).

    Just because there are HG+ peers in his class isn't a reason to not provide an appropriate curriculum. Maybe it's an indication they should *all* be accelerated. Or maybe it's an opportunity for in-class differentiation. In any event, it's not a valid reason for the school to ignore the educational needs of your ds smile
    To be fair to his teacher, we got that statement through the gifted coordinator. It was made at a time when we had not yet known his WISC results, and all she had to go on was a STAR reading assessment DS had done a few months prior (he made a significant reading breakthrough after taking that test). When we shared the WISC with the coordinator, she seemed to acknowledge almost immediately that there was more to this situation than her teacher had thought and went about setting up one of those big meetings with the principal, school psychologist, teacher, etc. Unfortunately, we had to decide about the private school before that meeting could take place. I'm really curious to know how it would have turned out.

    But yes, I agree completely. Who says you have to be at the top of your class before considering acceleration?

    Quote
    You'll know if he's getting what he needs by staying involved in knowing what's going on in class - you'll talk to your ds, you'll get to know the teachers, you'll stay on top of it. You'll advocate. It won't be a situation where you can just send your ds off to school in the morning and trust that all will be well... but really, no matter what the LOG (or not)... isn't that what involved parents *do*?
    I had asked him to tell me if he wasn't being challenged at his current school, and within two weeks he came back and told me that he wasn't. My first thought was, "I put the idea into his head and he thinks he's telling me what I'm expecting to hear." But then I saw what he was learning and compared it to what I knew he could do. It was obvious that he was right. When I had approached the school about it, they felt like they were meeting his needs by extending the curriculum (have him read slightly harder books, do 2-step math problems instead of 1-step ones, etc.). But it hasn't made any difference; I simply don't think it's enough for him. And his teacher doesn't really see a problem.

    I'm just hoping that he will continue to tell me if he's not being challenged in the school years to come, because I fear that it may the only way I will know.

    Thanks for the words of encouragement, polarbear (and everyone else!) I really appreciate it!

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    I had (still have) a little imposter syndrome going on,, on behalf of my DD. Much like HK's DD she just wants to be liked and will blend in so fast it's scary. I had to wait for the full results to come in despite the Ed psych repeatedly telling me to book her into GT programs without waiting for the results.

    Most of my friends/family just think she's "precocious" and I know her teacher thinks she is very bright. Thanks goodness she has accepted the report as given....

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    I expect when we get to the end of this year (Dec) and I try yet again to convince them that a child on the 99.8th percentile does not need 11 terms in the junior school I will get the 'he is not the brightest child and is immature'. It is true his best friend who is a month older is a couple of levels ahead in reading and also missed the cut off by a couple of days but the only other kid in that top group will go into the middle syndicate next year. At this point DS is nearly 2 years ahead in reading and nearly a year ahead in maths.

    All this is to say the teacher will see the brightest kids as being complaint, having good EF and being high achievers - ie the kids who are between the 85th and 95th percentile or MG.

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    Originally Posted by puffin
    I will get the 'he is not the brightest child...'.

    That excuse drove me nuts.
    1) My kid does not have to be the most deserving of a skip for a skip to still be warranted. This isn't the olympics where you are limited to only 3 medals to hand out.
    2) Maybe you should consider talking with the parents of the other kids about acceleration, instead of trying to use those kids as a road block.

    Sorry, just having flash backs to my DD14's kindergarten principal...

    Best of luck,
    --S.F.


    For gifted children, doing nothing is the wrong choice.
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