Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Back from testing...now even more confused...

So, we went for testing this morning. DS had good sleep, a good breakfast...overall, a really good morning. Apparently the test started well, but then he just shut down. The tester came out to get me and asked if I could get him back on track - he just told me he was "done with this" and wouldn't answer any of her questions (they were at the beginning of a new section). Finally, he said that "donuts" would help him answer so I got him some...and he answered most of the questions, though he was rolling around on a futon, etc. while he did it. But, apparently, he still refused to answer a lot and answered pretty flippantly, etc. on others. His score ended up a 142 (99.7%), but from some of the ones she said he missed/refused to answer (that I am 100% certain he knows the answer to), I suspect it is higher. But, that could be the right score - I'm not going to grasp at straws on the number. I guess that does put him in the "pretty gifted" category, right? But, does it seem high enough to support my theory that he is totally bored with early 4YO work at his Montessori school?

The tester seemed to think "yes," and recommended that we take him out if they wouldn't give him more challenging work - she felt like he should be in at least the "Kindergarten" part of the curriculum right now. She also recommended other schools in town that she thought would be good for him (including the gifted Charter school and gifted Magnet school here - his scores allow him to apply to both). Now that there is more data, any other thoughts? Oh, and here's the original topic...

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And while I'm asking, has anyone had their child evaluated for ADHD, and if so, what was involved? Seeing his performance this morning does make me wonder if he just can't stay in control, and I do wonder how the scores would have changed if he could have held it together during the test.

Thanks for any and all insight on any or all of these topics!

Wow NTT!
Wonderful news that your son was able to get high enough scores to get into the schools! That's wonderful.

and yes, you must be New To This to be questioning if scores 99.7 or higher could possibly support your underplacement argument. A child with a particular personality could be in his shoes at the 90%! Or the 99%! but Certianly the 99.7 or higher is going to be feeling like a torture victim at grade level curriculum IF he has that particular "challenge me" personality.

Take a look at a Bell curve, and meditate on the scores in terms of Standard Deviations from the Norm. Ummmmm. Then you will understand why you are getting so little understanding from so many people.

As for the ADHD, why not wait until he gets into the gifted magnet school and see what a teacher who "gets him" can do? It is certainly possible, but his behavior during the testing, while uncooperative doesn't scream ADHD to me. To me it screams - kid who has lost faith and patience, in grownups and their weird grown up things.

Of course some kids who are at or around the 3rd Standard Deviation have ADHD, but I'd love to see you wait until he is well into his new learning environment until you seek out that level of professional advice. Afterall - where are you going to go to find a ADHD doctor who even knows what PG is? For now go ahead and read parenting books about ADHD and see if some of their excellent parenting stratagies work for you, but my advice, and I'm only a Mom, is to get him out of that school, and just enjoy him.

Am I going to say it?
Yes I am.
They grow up so fast!

Smiles,
Trinity

Dear New-

I hesitate to venture a guess at whether your child is more highly gifted than the test showed, but it does sound as though he wasn't really focused on the tasks at hand. Let me share my experience with testing a four year old, and maybe it will help you.

I have two PG sons. My daughter always seemed to be right up there with them in intellect, and when she was 4.5, we paid to have her tested by a private psychologist. My daughter performed outstandingly for the first 40 minutes or so, scoring at the levl fo a child well over twice her age on a picture vocabulary test and hitting ceilings on two subtests on the WPPSI. But then she SHUT DOWN. She refused to speak or answer a single question more, and a snack break and time with Mom did nothing to change her behavior. We left that day without completing the test.

Two years later, we had medical testing and found out that my daughter has an issue with reactive hypoglycemia. Sugar makes her hyperactive and then when she crashes, she gets very taciturn and moody. Protein is her best friend, and if she doesn't have it throughout the day, she becomes unbalanced. That fateful day when she was four, I treated her to a breakfast of DONUTS and cocoa! No wonder she petered out! Her blood sugar was crashing.

We did get another evaluation when dd was six. This time, she was very cooperative, and she scored well into the PG range. She was also diagnosed ADHD, which I believe is a valid diagnosis for her. She is in constant motion, except if she's reading, and even then, she tends to flop around a lot.

Good luck-

Hi NTT.
Congrats on the testing - both getting it done and getting the scores he did!

I certainly echo what Trinity said regarding the ADHD. When we had our son tested we asked the psychologist to look for ADHD. It really is just a questionnaire - one for a teacher and one for parents. The diagnosis is pretty much made by interview and observation. No standardized test or anything. DH and I didn't think our son had it, but wanted the "ruled out" part on son's report OR to know that he did in fact show signs of it.
Turned out it was "ruled out" which has helped us to work with the school and stop anyone from suggesting that this is the problem.

For the record, I took Trinity's advice last November and observed my son in his math class. I went because he was already telling me he hated the class and didn't want to go to first grade. He was the ONLY kid in the class who was looking antsy. In his chair, out of his chair, in his chair, sitting on his legs, sprawling on the top of the desk, up behind his desk spinning with arms out like an airplane, walking circles behind his desk, sitting again for a moment...you get the point. Why was he acting like this? He was bored. He had finished the "class guided practice" and the teacher was still directing the other kids on problem number 4. He is now twice accelerated in math and guess what? No more ADHD-like behaviors in math! His most recent mid-term progress report had NO behaviors marked as needing improvement!

Now, your child may very well indeed have ADHD. I don't know him. But I agree with Trin. Wait and see what happens AFTER you've met his academic/intellectual needs at school.
Best of luck and congrats again!

A side note: I don't have ADHD, but I'm also a "flopper" when I read. When I was 16--way back before it was fashionable!--I learned to knit in Germany using the Continental method (off the right hand instead of the left, as is the norm in the US) and taught myself to do it without looking. Throughout school, whenever I had reading to do, I picked up my knitting. The constant subtle motion kept me FAR more focused than I would have been if I had stuck to the reading alone.

This glorious habit kept me nailed to my chair through an undergraduate degree in English and 7 tortuorous years of grad school for the same! I don't know if it would work for everyone with a bad case of "the fidgets," but it works like a charm for me.

You guys are so awesome! Thanks for all your thoughts and advice!

Trinity, you are right...we are kind of nuts to be second-guessing ourselves right now about the hypothesis that he is bored - I think we thought he would score even higher and we were disappointed that he didn't take it seriously, hence the reaction. But, you are totally right that those scores demand action. I am amazed, though, at how helpless/paralyzed two uber-educated parents can suddenly feel/become when someone says the things the school said about our son. I know many of you have been there, and it's such an isolating time. We feel so much pressure to make the "right" move, and in this case, it has some pretty big implications for our family should I decide to bring him home for "school" this year. But, I guess I can't think of a better reason to tip over the apple cart, right?

The medical information is also helpful, and we're going to chase down those paths as well.

Keep the thoughts coming...you all have been so much help!

((Humor alert))
Hi NTT,
The first step to overcoming a problem is admiting that you have a problem, so good for you for taking that step.

Golly,
Will homeschooling be a major problem? I hope it works out for you, or that you can find a place to keep him that works better for him. Look at the money you will be saving to avoid having to send him to private school, or homeschooling, because your district has a good program.


It's not your fault that you are tied up in knots. You have every reason to expect to have a normal child that a well run school would be able to accomidate. There is a bit of a grieving process to go through, similar to what parents of disabled kids have to go through. But in this case, it's not that you have to grieve that your child isn't what expected, it's that you have to grieve that your social network isn't as full and useful as you expected.

Parenting your child is going to bring you into a new relationship with Experts and I don't mean that you won't have any experts to rely on, just that YOU will have to pick and choose and be skeptical and informed. Even if you thought you were already savy, this opens up a whole new level. I wish there was a ritual, to mark the transition. S'mores any one?

Love and More Love,
Trinity