Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Another Meeting...differentiation advice

So I spoke with the GT coordinator for over an hour on the phone yesterday. We are having another meeting. This time it will include everyone. The principal, two of her possible teachers for next year (they can't guarantee which one b/c the class lists can require a lot of shuffling), school psychologist and I think she said the social worker too.

I asked if I could see a list of conferences or in school training the staff has had in differentiation, b/c if this really is the schools method for working with the gifted until they qualify for the honors program the staff should be highly trained. She said they feel that conferences aren't the best method for training and that they feel a lot of their teachers have these skills naturally. That they do have training through their weekly team meetings(the school gets out 15 minutes early every Tuesday for staff meetings) in RTI. She sent me the 50 page document they use. I have to read through it today.

I told her our fears are of another year where the differentiation doesn't work. With the lack of follow through on this year�s classroom teacher�s part and that nobody is really holding her accountable, it is hard to see this working. That another year where dd continues to come home feeling upset and frustrated is not acceptable. She said they will be open to subject acceleration as a plan B if this method isn't helping. That made me feel better that they are going to be open to something else.

I am feeling optimistic that next year will be better. I feel the fact that they are having a meeting with everyone is a sign that they are taking the situation seriously.

I have been reading up on differentiation and will read through the RTI packet she sent me. I still have some anxiety about the method, but think with a dedicated teacher she will have a much more successful year.

Has anyone here had success with this method? What would you suggest we look for/ask for? I know every child is different so what works for one might not work for another, but I just want to know what things we should have in writing in her goal plan. We just want this coming year to be a great one.

Thanks to everyone here for all the advice/information you have given me in the past. I feel that b/c I found this place and saw the success of others I found the strength to keep going. I know I will continue to find it to make sure my dd gets what she needs in school.

Nope, sorry, but the fact that they are having a meeting with everyone is only a sign that they think that they can 'persuade' you better if they have 100 bodies in the room all in opposition to you.

If they are willing to do subject acceleration as a plan B if Next Year doesn't work, then why not do subject acceleration this year (which isn't working) to see how your DD does with it.

They say that they have many kindys with MAP test scores similar to your DDs. Are they going to show you the numbers with the name's inked out? If so, then there really is hope - but remember that they have 1000 other things to think about besides your child, so getting the high kids clustered together may or may not actually happen.

Can you get to the Boston Area April 30/May 1 for BIQ conference? I think DD would find it very cool to hang out with other 'unusually gifted' kids. I know you don't have IQ test scores but that isn't required for this conference.

You can also make the argument that even if the other kids are more advanced than your DD, they aren't suffering in their current placement the way DDs, and therefore DD needs a skip even if they don't.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

While I generally agree, the other thing that I point out is that this is also an opportunity to have high level decision makers at the table. So yes, expect to try to be persuaded but recognize that you may also be able to turn the tables. In fact, in our situation we had to get past the G/T teacher to the admin level to get what we were looking for. It wasn't pretty, but it was necessary.

Good luck!

JB

I sure hope you're right about them taking this situation seriously. Your DD deserves to have her needs taken seriously, and you deserve to have your wishes taken seriously. But, even with them taking it seriously, they probably have different ideas of what this means.

To me, it sounds like you want subject acceleration, not differentiation and enrichment. It sounds like you've spent a year trying it and it didn't work. A year is a long time in the life of your DD.

If I were you, I'd take this tack (and I have): teaching is difficult, teaching to a wide range of abilities and personalities is difficult. Asking a teacher to accommodate your one student is unreasonable. At least, it is unreasonable to ask a teacher to do it consistently throughout the year. It is unfair to the teacher to have to take her focus away so often from the rest of the class. You sympathize with the difficult situation teachers are in. And you think subject acceleration will help both your DD and her teachers. Subject acceleration will allow your DD to be in a class where the teacher will not have to treat your DD any differently than the rest of his or her students. There will be no extra work for the teacher. Now, secretly (or not) the school administrators will worry that your DD is not emotionally ready to handle this and that your DD will take extra attention in the higher grade. Do whatever you can to allay their fears.

Go into your meeting optimistic that they have the best interests of your DD at heart. They might. But, be prepared to ask for what you truly want and feel is best and stick to your guns. You don't want enrichment. You want subject acceleration. You know your DD best, both as a person and as a student. You're a smart person and you have a reasonable request. Don't falter in your convictions.

If they are still hesitant after you making your case, do what Grinity often suggests and offer to sign a waiver saying that you take full responsibility for any negative outcomes if the subject acceleration doesn't work.

Good luck!

From our general experience, most teachers are decent at differentiating one grade up and one grade down. More than that and you get into grey areas. For example, elementary teachers don't get a lot of training in how to teach math. It seems basic enough that training programs just assume they can figure it out. But when you add in a hypothetical 3 years differentiation (in my son's case) and a newfangled Everyday Math textbook with an unmotivated teacher- you often get a whole lot of.... nothing.

Have a meeting and see where it goes! But don't sign anything! This is my advice in general to parents. Take the conversation (or notes or forms whatever you have!) home with you and think it over. Then send a thank you note. But if they ask you to sign anything before you leave, politely decline. I've seen too many principals, Special Ed coordinators and GT coordinators try to get parents to sign a formulaic plan so they can later say "but you agreed right here to give it a year!"

I don't have any wisdom of my own to offer, but I think Grinity's advice about a trial period is good. Our tester suggested something similar for our son. Please keep us updated.

I love this tack, and would at that peers are such an important part of learning, that even the strongest differentiating teacher can not provide readiness to learn peers in a classroom where DD is the only child who has her readiness to learn level.

Grinity

First off...OH NO on the opposition!! It didn't occur to me


We have tried to get them to do trials this year with her on subject/grade acceleration and they will not. I have spoken to the superintendant and my dh has as well. This is their method and they want us to hear them out at this meeting. If not satisfied after it we will have to go in front of the board and then if it is denied they told us we are free to take it to the state level if we would like....not even sure what that would entail, but am thinking they more said it as a threat to show us the road that would be ahead of us if we don't play by their rules.

We have no problem going in front of the board, but since the super is against I feel it will be denied by them as well. I just want to go into this meeting telling them how the differentiation will be done and have them agree that if in the first month it isn't we will get the subject acceleration without any issue. A year has already been wasted and I have already told the GT coordinator I will not allow it to go more than that as a trial period. The problem we now have is her score in the map test stayed the same in math now as it was in Nov. so they feel her strong subject is reading and will probably tell us subject acceleration in math is out.

Things I plan to ask about are how they test first graders at the end of the year besides the map ie...math end of book test and see if dd can take it at the begining to see how she scores. Their big push is "higher level thinking activities"( I will throw myself off of a bridge if I hear them say that and gaps in learning one more time!!!) Not the next years curriculum at first to see how that works with her.

I agree that differentiation is extremely time consuming for the teacher. I already told them that I felt to really be done right it needs to be run the way an IEP is run. If not, we will end up with more of the same. Again, they want us to hear them out.

As far as the other map scores, they will show them to me. I told them I wanted to see it. She said I can't keep it, but will be able to look at it to see where dd compares. They still do not know how many of the kids will be at her school with her next year who scored higher. It will be something we are told at the meeting. Hopefully at least 3.

Thank you for the advice about not signing anything. I will not. It is going to go in writing and be a "goal plan" since there is no state legislation about gifted in our state.

I wish we could travel to Boston. My dd is in soccer and my husband is the coach so she can't miss the opening weekend. Is that something they do more than once a year? We may have to look into that as something to do with her in the future. If it is always in Boston I will have no problems convincing my husband to go...as he is a die hard Red Sox fan LOL

The schools stance is she wasn't paired with the right teacher and that is why it hasn't been successful. They are saying they plan to pair her with children similar, but we will see.

Grinity I have already told them as much and they say that differentiation is their districts method. When done properly it works. It wasn't done properly this year b/c it was a teacher new to K and she wasn't able to be paired up with other children of similar ability. With these two components in place they feel it will be a successful year. They say they did subject acceleration once starting in grade 3 and the children had gaps in learning. That those children were done a great disservice b/c when they reached the older grades( believe it was 7th grade) they were not able to to succeed. I wanted to say then you did something wrong, but I didn't.

This may be stating the obvious, but it is entirely possible that her math MAP score did not go up because she was not being taught anything new.


I think you need to ask for your DD to take the end-of-first-grade math test now and then compare it to the current first graders. If the test shows there are any holes, then you can teach her those skills over the summer. Doing so will probably take all of a day or two.


If they feel that her reading scores are stronger, perhaps they should be asked to look at a full-grade acceleration as well. It's certainly easier on the teachers than either enrichment or subject-acceleration.

This is what I think. I also am going to ask if she only had a certain amount of time to complete the test or if she got through it all. This may have also had something to do with it.

As far as any kind of acceleration we have talked it till we are blue in the face with them. If we want to go further with it we have to go before the board(which after this meeting may be what we do), but they will not approve it themselves. This is their method and that is that.

I just want to be as knowledgeable about differentiation as I can be. I guess I feel if I go in there asking the right questions and they can't provide me with concrete proof the staff is highly trained, then that will be our argument to the board. I want them to prove that differentiation just isn't a buzz word they throw out there to placate parents. They better have the substance to back it up. IMO, if they can't then dd should be accelerated as that is the only way they are capable of meeting her needs at this time.

I know they say they won't do an official IEP, but can you give them a week to 10 days to physically show you the enrichment materials and to come up with a daily or weekly schedule of how they will enrich, what time will be set aside during the daily schedule, and what instruction she will be given? After your meeting with them, I would write them a letter thanking them for the meeting, summarizing what you understand their position to be, and formally asking for this information (with the deadline included). If they don't do this, then I, personally, would absolutely be going to the board. although it would be a shame if it had to get to that. If they do what you ask, then I would write another letter, reiterating the schedule and material that they have provided for you so that you will then have an written account of their offer.

Please let us know how the meeting goes!

As a teacher, yes differentiation is the buzzword of the day. It is a great idea in theory but difficult in practice. Just one more thing to ask " are they ensuring that students who are on IEP's and performing significantly below grade level will not be in your child's class." the reason I ask is that it is completely unreasonable to expect one teacher to differentiate for students both 2 stadard deviations below and 2 standard deviations above grade level. This will let them know you are aware of what the lingo is. I agree don't sign until you can review. I also have asked to tape a meeting so that no one can go back and say something wasn't said.

Does your state's RTI document or other gifted policy statements contain criteria for subject or grade acceleration? I find that if I use the bureaucracy's own words to support what I want, it is harder for them to dismiss me out of hand.


The problem that we have found is that people throw around the word "differentiation" as if there is some standardized format for taking kids beyond the standard curriculum. It is heavily teacher dependent. Some teachers do it naturally, with no training. Others can have all the training in the world but just do not possess the mental flexibility to make it work consistently. I would try to talk to other parents about their experiences with the teachers proposed for next year. See if you can find out if one of the two has that natural gift to meet kids at their level. Then, try to lobby for placement with that teacher.

Also, I think that you already know this but don't forget to put everything in writing. If they state something will happen, get a name and a date attached to the action item. Review your list with them before the close of the meeting. Circulate an email/letter after the meeting listing each team member's responsibilities. Next year, document your efforts to confirm that these commitments were met. Last, don't forget to thank everyone for their efforts to provide your child with a meaningful educational experience (even if you have to do it through gritted teeth).

Yes, this is for 1st grade. The RTI packet she sent me is actually the model Montana uses. It is something that they use, but isn't part of their policy. From what I understand the GT coordinator is trying to get something like this approved as part of their policy. It is just something she is going to use as part of our dd's plan.

I do not think they have any intentions of using any kind of pullout program with her. It is all going to be classroom based instruction. They are just going to group the kids who tested high into her class, but it could be just one other child.

They are being vague at this point on any commitment to how many children it will be and what specific teacher. It is my understanding it will be one of the two who are there, but they don't officially assign teachers before the end of the school year. Not even in cases of IEP's, which surprises me.

I am going to go through with the meeting, but am now starting to lose a lot of my optimism with this as a viable option.

What happens if the board turns our request down?

http://www.wrightslaw.com/bks/feta2/feta2.htm

Second time tonight I am linking to this book--I would get it today and follow the suggestions--it is a very effective approach and if nothing else one day when you are before a judge with a stack of polite, reasonable, evidence based letters it will persuade the judge to see it your way. (according to pete wright who argued and won a case before supreme court).