Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Not wanting to borrow trouble...but question

I really dont want to borrow trouble, really dont want to...but we are still trying to figure DD out and she was getting in trouble today AGAIN for not looking at me when I talked to her. And she does this all the time, and she knows I consider it rude and that it is a big deal and she always gets in trouble, but she just wont do it. Even after getting in trouble and talked to about it. So I didn't know it it was just me, or what, so I started observing, and well I called my mom and asked her (as she had just visited with us for 2 weeks) and I asked her if there was anything she noticed about DD that she was concerned about(knowing my mom would never say anything even if she had without being asked cause that is just how she is) And she instantly said, "She never looks at me when we were talking or playing. She looked to the side of me, or at my body, but never at my face." She also mentioned the MANY meltdowns, complete screaming, yelling at us, when we did not play EXACTLY right, and playing the same senario over and over again for hours. And then she mentioned that DD spends so much time on the setting up to play and never seemed to really play with many things.(Whew, a lot of stuff she noticed.)

Well, so when DD wasn't looking at me again today, I asked her. I simply said "why don't you look at me when you know it makes me upset and I think its rude." She said "I just can't mom." I asked why not. DD.... "It doesn't feel comfy inside. It is uncomfortable. I feel like I am on an up and down road" (That is how she describes when she is anxious about something.)

I know very little about aspergers, but I do know the eye contact thing is often a part of it. Can any one point me to some resources to read on. I googled tonight and was overwhelmed. I started reading and the only thing I could see was myself. It described me to a T growing up, and in a lot of ways still does. So is this DD or have I somehow inadvertently taught her these behaviors? Does that even make sense? I'm not looking for a diagnosis unless it was really interferring...just wondering and hoping to understand her more.

Did you mention in another post that your hubby is away at work for a week? Mine has just started a new job in the oilfield where he's gone for one week every other week. Last time my 3 year old was nervous. This week he's pushing boundries and pulling heartstrings. He called his dad and woke him up and said, you have a bed here. Why aren't you sleePing in it. He knows his dad's at work. He has a calendar and he's watching it. He told Wella on the phone his dad would be back in 3 days, even though we forgot to mark a box today so there were 4 empty boxes.

I'm not sure about Aspbergers but I think it's similar enough to pg to be misdiagnosed. There's also the chance of the dual diagnosis. Where does quirky end? No, really. Is there an end to it? I'm working out the obedience aspect of listening with my pre-schooler. I just started the classic mom's "oh yeah, if you were listening then what did I say?". "hhff, then go do it.". I just the other day read on this very forum the actual steps of listening:
Look at my face when I'm telling you what to do.
Do what I told you to do.
Come tell me what you just did that I told you to do.
I told the boy we'll be practicing this. He doesn't want to. Plus he wants to tell me what to do. Tsk.

Hopefully she is fine, but if you are concerned I have just learned here that services are offered through the school district beginning at age 3. Maybe an evaluation would help relieve fears or identify anything, and alert the school district to her giftedness, too.



Ahhh. Me too.

Seablue- Thanks, I don't think our scholl district does here...not many resources on the island but I dont know. And yeah, it was scary when I realized wow, that was me.

La Texican- Yep, Thankfully he got back tonight. Wasn't sure if he would be able to make it in. Here about 1 out of ever 4 planes actually comes in ontime not delayed. He was delayed for a couple of hours but still made it, although the flight was awful(think prop plane in 60mph+ wind gusts) and he went to bed within an hour of getting in.
I did the same things with listening steps the other day, and that is a big thing here. It was her telling me it was uncomfortable that made me stop and worry. I wonder the same thing...where does pg and quirky end and a diagnosis begin. I don't want a diagnosis and wouldn't seek one unless it became a big problem. Just was wondering if there were some good reading out there. Maybe try some techniques. Shrug. I have decided not to push the eye contact thing so much now that she said how it made her feel, as long as she shows me she is listening.
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I'm glad he made it in. It has been bad weather lately.
I'm interested in a book recommendation for great manners.
Guess there's a quarterly class for kid's at harvard. I want the DiY Manuel we could practice anywhere.

If you are in the US, the school district has to help you assess. The eye contact issue is a red flag for Asperger's and other autism spectrum disorders, but also for problems with ocular motor control and visual processing, all of which respond best to early intervention. How difficult this assessment will be in terms of what resources are close to you and which ones require travel is another question. Speaking as the parent of a gifted child with all of the aforementioned diagnoses, I don't think there is a down side to having this checked out by knowledgeable professionals. If there is a problem, then you can begin to offer interventions early to help build skills, and if there isn't a problem, then you can stop worrying.

Wow, I went through this not too long ago. I read "Aspergirls" by Rudy Simone and was blown away when I realized that it not only described my daughter to a T but also my mom and myself to a large degree. Then I read the dual diagnosis and misdiagnosis of gifted children book and realized that so many of the traits also come with plain gifties.

We are getting DD17 tested in 2 weeks but only because she really wants to - just to help her understand herself.

As far as the looking at you when you speak, it is great that you are realizing this may be something other than willful rudeness. My DD17 found a trick that has worked wonders for her: she looks at your nose when you speak to her, it's close enough to pass and it isn't so intensely uncomfortable for her. She also learned to meditate to help control the tantrums/meltdowns (which continued well into the teens albeit with less frequency).

My DD always complained about those long tubular fluorescent ceiling lights at school and in our laundry room, she said they made her feel sick because they flicker like a strobe light (even though most people can't tell they are flickering). I have been reading that aspies are much more likely to notice the flickering. Perhaps an unscientific test? I don't notice the flickering so much, its the hum that gets me.

Interesting stuff.

Ditto, these.

I agree that it makes sense to have your district evaluate. Write a letter describing your concerns and they MUST evaluate in all areas of suspected disability. If she has trouble with certain social skills, behavioral regulation, flexibility, language, motor skills etc mention these things in the letter. Even if she is at grade level or beyond, she may qualify for help in other realms such as social.

As far as the eye contact - yes it is a red flag for Aspergers and other spectrum disorders. People with ADHD also sometimes with eye contact. From what I have read, it actually helps them to concentrate and block out extra stimuli by looking away. Perhaps you can help your daughter understand when eye contact is essential and let it go when it is not important. It may make her concentrate on other aspects of human relation and conversation that is more salient.

There are many reasons why a person may struggle with making eye contact. Some gifted kids who take in a lot of stimulation at a high level find it hard to attend to all that stimulation at once. Breaking eye contact can make it easier for them to listen and to process verbal information.

Also, some people who are more sensitive and emotionally intense may be picking up a lot of information from looking at your face. Most often when parents say "look me in the eye" it is when they are probably communicating about something that is high in emotions and that may be overwhelming to the child. Also, when eye contact has become such a loaded issue she's already no doubt feeling on the defensive every time she realizes you are upset about it.

If you overall have concerns about her development by all means get her evaluated by someone who understands giftedness.

If the eye contact thing is an isolated concern honestly I would totally leave it alone. If it is a stand alone issue when she's older she can learn ways to modify and cope with it to keep up with the social standard. I would very strongly caution against telling her she's rude or making her responsible for your emotions of upset. That's a pretty big burden for a kid to carry over something like this. I'd instead say something like "people feel differently about eye contact, some people feel uncomfortable about it but they learn to handle it as they get older. It does help me when I'm talking to know that you are listening so let me know if you understand what I'm saying..."