Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy More Preschool Issues- SPD? Introversion? Nothing?

It's been a few months since I wrote about my now 18 month old's preschool issues (18 month old in a 2-3 year old classroom), but things were looking up so I felt much better. Recently, I went to observe again.

What I saw was not my child! The child I saw did a lot of wandering around the room, did not play, and did not talk. I observed for 2.5 hours and for the first 2 hours she did not play with anything! She just wandered. I'm not sure why she wouldn't play. They have adequate toys and she never has a hard time playing at home. She plays very well, both independently, with us, and with some older kids that she knows well.

She listened to all direct instruction from the teacher, but when asked questions, she wouldn't answer. The teacher asked her what she was holding...nothing. But just 10 minutes before we were in the car and this is what I heard for 20 minutes: "Maddie has uncle's golf ball. It's really dirty, so yucky. Maddie clean it up. Uncle has lots and lots of golf balls..." an so on. At home she also ask questions ALL DAY LONG. "Why? Why? Why? What's that? Why? Where did ___go? Why?" But now at school, she wouldn't answer and she's not seeking information.

On the playground, she was the only one that was alone. I could chalk that up to her age, though so I'm not too worried. She did chatter on and on to the climbing alligator though, as if he were her friend.
I spoke briefly with the teachers and they said she tends to talk more on the potty, when its just her and an adult.
She also still cries intensely at drop off every single day and takes a while to recover.

So...last month, even without this story, my pediatrician after hearing 2 seconds of her development said "while its too early to tell, I think we are looking at OCD and SPD". Now..OCD, I'll take...my husband has OCD, but is very functional for lack of a better word (Read: my house is very clean ;-)), but I'm not certain where he would come up with SPD. He said the crying so much at school could be an indication. I'm not certain I see anything that would indicate SPD, but I'm no pro.

My husband is an introvert and he clearly remembers preschool (at 3) being the exact same way for him. He would never participate and it took him months to stop crying all day long at school. That said he thinks its nothing we need to intervene with since it could just be that she doesn't want to talk because she feels shy, etc.

I come from a behavioral background, though and am also back in school studying behavior. Could she have been conditioned to not talk there? When she arrived at the school, she was a fluent signer and no one there signed, so as much as she needed anything, it was ignored. Could she have been conditioned to not play? In her first months in the 1 year old room, they did not have many toys and there was no support of playing.

Ok, so I guess where I'm at is: Do we just accept that this is who she is and not make any changes? Is it ok for her to go 2 days potentially not talking? I just want her to be happy. Is she miserable there?? Is she ok there, just pensive? When she comes home from school she always has stories about the teachers and some of the kids and seems happy. If I ask her if she wants to go to school, she always says "no, stay home with mommy" but I think that's typical and should I make a decision based on that?

I'm not sure what other options I have right now(longish story but I split a full-time daycare position with another family and feel obligated to make this work), so how could I help her in this environment? I know the teachers know she is different, but what could I tell them about her that might help them help her?

Thanks for listening...I just don't know where else to go.

I have to say that some of that sounds perfectly normal for an 18 month old. Even though DD signed very well at home for a long time and speaks well now it wasn't until a month or two ago that she actually started speaking to other kids (so around 20-21 months old). She still doesn't speak much to other kids but will happily speak to adults (although not nearly as well as she does to myself or DH).

Also, she's always had pretty bad separation anxiety. She's in daycare for two weeks starting today and I was SHOCKED that we didn't have a full-blown tantrum (but am expecting one tomorrow). We still have tantrums if I go to the bathroom (or DH sometimes).

The wandering around does sound a bit odd... DD is normally pretty involved with toys (or playing with other kids) so maybe somebody else knows about that? It could just be a personality thing but I really can't say. But I don't think other kids not responding to her would make her not engage with the toys there. If anything you think she would want to play with them more?

Of course she is being conditioned not to talk. You could also say that her high EQ is allowing her to realize that daycare isn't the place where she can have good conversations. That is why she waits for the potty. The kind of talking the teachers are initiating during the whole group is probably quite shallow and not sustained enough to be interesting to your DD.

Once you become a parent, you have to shift your perspective away from your normal 'pre-baby' perspective. Things like feeling obligated to some other family who is part of the half-time arrangement has to go out the window if your DD's needs aren't being met.

What to do? See if the school will let her spend an hour here and there with the even older group and see if she talks and plays more. Bring in toys that she enjoys from home and see if she is willing to play with them at school. Observe the level of speaking that the other children in her room do and see if it's a match.

18 months is very young, and all of these behaviors might just be normal for her. You won't know unless you try some other settings and see if things change. The crying says that you have to at least try some other rooms or settings. I worked because it was what my family needed most, so I'm guessing that's the case for you as well. It is ok to keep her in the current situation even with the crying, after you've tried some alternates to be sure.

Maybe the other family would split a nanny with you? Who knows, maybe they hate the current situation and are sticking it out for your benifit?

Love and More Love,
Grintiy

Lots of children don't talk much at preschool. It's totally normal.

I totally agree. Neither of my kids would talk in public at this age. It actually helped cement my GT denial. I figured all kids were talking in paragraphs at home and went mute out in the real world.

Oy, psst, shhhhhh! Don't you dare burst my bubble.

Thanks so much for talking me down. Also, I'm glad I'm not alone with the separation anxiety! It is sooo bad here, I'm in the same boat - I'm RARELY alone in the bathroom for that reason!

I think the toys in there are just not ones she would choose, with the exception of the days when they play with blocks. She loves blocks, babies and computers. I know they have babies there, but no accessories. She likes to change their diapers, cook eggs for them and feed then, but them in the crib with a blanket, etc. They just have naked babies. She isn't allowed to play on the computer at school yet, but as soon as she gets a hang of the left-click only thing, I am going to try to push for it.

Thanks again. Being a first time mom to an UN-textbook baby, i have to let go of what other kids are doing and what my expectations were.

Grinity,
I think you are right on about the depth of conversation in the classroom. It is by no means how we would talk to her at home, but she may be getting more out of 1:1 time on the potty simply by the topics she initiates.

I certainly agree too, that my daughter is my ONLY priority right now, but I initially thought this was the best thing for her. If I were to try to get a nanny, we are right back to where she never interacts with other kids or experiences other settings. I think I live in fear of all the nanny horror stories also.



I do have to work, but luckily only part time. I can't imagine how she would feel being in that setting 5 days a week. I'm checking with another family in my neighborhood if they are interested in sharing a nanny or something comparable, so hopefully something will come of that. I'm not certain if I could get a nanny for 2-3 days a week...do they do part-time? (I'm brand new to all this).

I have observed the level of talking from the kids in the room and it is very simple and basic, but who knows...do they talk more at home too?

Thanks so much for all of your insight and advice.

Thanks, Tallulah and kimck. I guess I really don't know what the other kids are doing at home either. Maybe they too prattle on about how "the moon has rocks and mountains just like the earth"....:-)

Is there an older classroom she can join?
So you don't have to worry about her not playing with the toys anymore than you'd have to worry about a 5 year old not playing with the toys in that room either.

I don't think that you have to worry about a child interacting with a whole cast of characters and experiencing other environments at age of 18 month. 4 years old, ok. But 18 months is still a baby, even a talking baby.

BTW - I also got caught in the GT denial trap of assuming the other babies were prattling away at home...even if a few of these 2-3s are talking at home, they aren't talking at school, and that is what your DD needs!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

It doesn't matter what or how they're talking at home, the important thing is that a significant number of children are a lot quieter at school than at home. Of the five preschool classes I've participated in, at least 25% of the children almost never talked at school, but talked at home according to their parents. Sometimes you'd overhear them leaving the playground as the child opened up and started to chatter. That includes children who are requiring special arrangements at elementary school because they're ahead of their peers. Mine was one of them, it was just being shy, the massive amount of stimulation there is at preschool, that sort of thing. She's found her voice at school now, though.

We didn't start our DD in preschool until she was 3. She is now 4 and finally interacting more with her classmates. Up until this past week she was content with swinging at playtime. She had her preferred swing and all the kids knew not to try to take it. But this week she is playing with the other kids. This took over a year! She also doesn't talk to her full potential at school but even that is getting better. I think it just takes time.

This said, I do agree with Grinity in that you should try a few options and always be willing to put her some where else if you don't feel the school is a good fit. The positive from your post is the end of the day pick up time when she shares with you about her day. She might not be interacting but she is clearly paying attention, plus it seems that she is happy about the stories she shares.

Ah, I know all about your worries! We've definitely worried about many of the same things. It turns out today that we did have the big tantrum at daycare when I left so I guess all is normal in the world. I sure hope it ends soon!

I also wanted to comment on what Grinity said. We had a lot of the same worries about a nanny but have had a great experience with a part time name (definitely look into nanny shares too!). We have found that with her nanny she does speak quite a bit after she got used to her and her nanny often takes her to playdates or to the library to read and play with the other kids there. We looked for someone who was young and seemed like she could keep up with DD well (although many times she still looks like a bus ran over her after a few hours with DD!) and also not so set in her ways.

Their toys sound a bit lacking to me. How can they not have a bed and blankets when the #1 game of 12 month olds is to put the baby to bed?

I thought I'd give everyone an update (however late :-)) on our situation.

Our daughter has started talking at school, which certainly shocked the teachers with what she has had to say. I had a conference with the teacher and she has achieved competency or fluency on all of the tasks on each test up through the 36-42 months test, so they/we can see she is doing well now. However, even with all these developments, she still cries terribly at separation and asks to stay home all the time, so clearly, its time for a change. We had inquired to a few nannies and were working on that when I found out I am expecting again (which is just a miracle knowing what we went through to have our daughter). It was just the push we needed for me to decide to stay home (I had already opened up the discussion to my husband). We started cutting out some things to make our finances work and after just a few more months will have enough saved up that it can work in the short term.

Thanks to everyone for all your advice and support. Grinity, your frank mention of feeling obligated to the other family we share the school tuition with, etc really helped me to refocus and work to convince my husband that a few years of mild financial "hardship" may be what our family needs to sacrifice right now to get our daughter through this time.

I'll keep you all posted! I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future!

Cheers RachaelC - Great news all around! Thanks for posting!
Grinity

I know this is an old thread but am glad I found it.

I am glad to see DS2 is not the only one who doesn't talk much at daycare/preschool.

Another thing kind of worries me is that he tends to be a people watcher instead of participating in activities.