Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy MAP testing and RIT scores

I am new to the forum, mainly because I have a question I can't seem to find the answer to by "googling" it.

My 6th grade son scored a 257 on his last spring math MAP test AND got the exact same score of 257 this week (fall). I have been looking at "norm" MAP charts from various sources.

My question is: Are the MAP scores graded the same independent of grade in school? For example, can I look at his 257 and place him (not physically) doing average work for the grade that indicates a 257? Or is it differnt for different grade?

I just realized I should have posted this in Identification, Testing, and Assessment. Sorry, new to forums.

The MAP RIT score is supposed be like a yardstick and independent of grade level. There are different versions of the test (K-2, 2-5, and 6+) but since he's in 6th grade, it's supposed to be the same version used for the higher grades. The test ceiling comes into play with that high of a score:
http://www.nwea.org/support/article/532

Thank you, Inky, for your timely response!

Welcome RJSwimmer!
So glad Inky found your question.

You sound a little frustrated...as long as you are here, do want some help problem solving?

Smiles,
Grinity

Thank you, Grinity, I am just trying to figure this all out. I homeschooled my 4 children in the past & just this year sent them to "school". As an entrance evaluation they took the MAP tests, Then again this fall. knew my son was bored in math and reading during most of class so I was wondering about moving him up and what the MAP scores meant. After last spring's math score of 257 and then the recent fall score this week of 257, they decided he finally could move up (after MUCH prodding)from 6th grade math to pre-algebra. Like I said, I really don't know much about these scores or what they mean, I just want to do the right thing for them. It's clear we have to initiate and investigate any possibility of level adjustment. He is in 6th grade and scored 238 on reading, 257 on math. I don't know how to differentiate from gifted to just plain hard work. Science and LA are next week some time. Coincidentally, his twin sister scored 235 in reading and 252 in math but is very shy and the whole "real school" situation is intimidating. She has no desire at all to move anywhere, much less up. I also need to be sensitive about the possibility that learning in the "brick" school environment may not be the same as learning at home. Because of that, I am very careful to not push too much and learn as much as I can about these scores and what they really mean. Lots of changes for our family. Clever to pick up on my frustration. It may just be me trying to adjust from complete control of their education to handing it over to someone else. Not sure.

I never actually homeschooled my DS14, but a homeschooling friend told me that the essence of homeschooling was that the parent accepted complete responsibility for the child's education, and on that basis, I was a 'homeschooling mom' of sorts.

as you say:

It seems so obvious to us that the school 'should' be able to recognise when a child needs more academic challenge and 'should' have plenty of experience with providing that challenge. And yet the nature of averages keeps telling schools that kids who are unusual don't exist, so we don't need to develop expertese about meeting their needs.

One way to figure out 'gifted' from 'hard working and well prepared' is formal IQ testing. A much cheaper alternative is to have the kids take the SAT or ACT this December, possibly through the talent search. There is much more data for how gifted 7th graders score, but if they score well it speaks volumes to the school, and if they don't score impressively well you can breath a sigh of relief. Frankly, any 6th grader willing to sit and take the test impresses me.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

rjswimmer,

I was looking around the site that inky posted. You may find this RIT scales article helpful.

There's even recommendations about where kids with certain scores might be placed.

Maryann

Excellent link Maryann -

I thought that this was interesting:


It looks like by MAP's experience both your children are ready for Geometry. I think that it's time to show this to the school and aske for PreAlgebra for your DD.

As for reading it looks like their scores would be at or above the 95% even compared to 7th graders.

At the very least you can see that you are bumping right up against the ceiling of the test in Math for both kids. I think that even hardworking ND (normally developing) kids wouldn't be pressed right up against the ceiling like they are unless they were also gifted.

You can show the pages from Maryann's link to help with your advocacy, and if the school doesn't believe you, they can call NWEA for help in understanding what your children might be ready to learn. It is possible that your school has an unusual population and are much higher or lower than this national average, but they have the data.

A reasonable question to ask, if the school acts all 'your kids don't have special educational learning needs' is to ask how many 6th graders got reading scores or math scores like your kids in 6th grade, 7th grade and 8th grade. Probably only a very small percentage. Maybe None.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

On a chart showing gifted norms, a 257 on Math falls in the middle of gifted 7th and 8th grade norms. The norms for gifted 7th graders is 255 and for gifted 8th graders is 260. Grade level medians for 7th and 8th grade are 229 and 234, respectively.

Thank you very much. I appreciate all of the comments. I have discovered that you have to be your own child's advocate when they are in the "system". I think schools are encouraged mostly to bring the "tail ends" of the range up because that is what is looked at a lot more closely than the upper ends of the range.

Do you have a link to a chart that shows the norms for gifted kids?

NWEA sets the gifted benchmark at 95%:
http://www.nwea.org/support/article/997
It's the same standard norms found here in the tables starting on page 139:
http://pickens.it.schoolfusion.us/m...ssionid=14d1e9266e4482d198ebc39c6e6bc9c3

Just got my daughters MAP scores and am totally confused. She is in the 8th grade, her math RIT range is 256-268. Not sure what it all means. Can anyone help me? Her RIT reading score was 240. Thanks for any help.

Hi Jennie,
The charts to convert RIT scores to national percentiles are here starting on page 129. Using the middle of the math range (266) the score is just above the 99% for 8th grade math and ~98% for 9th grade. The reading is at the 96% for 8th grade.
http://pickens.it.schoolfusion.us/m...ssionid=14d1e9266e4482d198ebc39c6e6bc9c3
Here's the link for the parent toolkit which has an explanation of how the RIT scale works.
http://www.nwea.org/support/article/930
Since she's near the ceiling, I would look at having her take a different assessment like the SAT or ACT through a talent search program.
http://www.nwea.org/support/article/532
Let me know if you have a more specific question I can help you answer.

Inky- while we're talking RIT scores, do you have any info on how scaled scores work? My son is 100% positive that his score on the screen at the end of the 2-6th test (this was 2nd grade spring) said 219 for reading but the paper the teacher sent home said 214. I asked her about it and she said the score on the screen is the raw score, not the scaled score but didn't really understand it all herself. I can't find anything on the public side of the NWEA website.

I couldn't find anything specific to MAP testing but here's an explanation from another test that may help:
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/osa/assesspubs/pubsarch/rawscoretoscaledscoreconversionTwing1021.pdf

Thanks Inky. I wonder if his school is scaling them on their own or if the school is getting them from NWEA. They have always argued that the 2008 norms don't reflect this school's data- which makes me curious now if they are actually understating each individual child's MAP score.

CAMom, you may want to ask for his NWEA Student Report. It looks like this: http://www.powayusd.com/projects/ed...20Student%20Growth%20Report%20Sample.pdf

Gifted Mom, I think they might take MAP results in addition to, but not in place of the ones they have listed:
http://www.davidsongifted.org/young...holars___Qualification_Criteria_384.aspx

Good idea Inky. They've "refused" to give them to other people in the past but I know they can't actually do that! We have P/T conferences in two weeks and I'll be asking.

Thanks for posting that Dottie. I hadn't see it before.
CAMom, good luck with the P/T conference and be ready to mention FERPA if they refuse to give you your child's test report.

WOW Dottie, those cutoff are high on the Heroes page. I'd have to say those most be above 99.9%. For example, my 7 year old, grade skipped to 3rd grade just scored 221 on the math portion of the MAP. It's not even on the 3rd grade percentile chart- it's up somewhere above 99%. But that's still 13 points below the Heroes for 7 year olds!

And Inky, hopefully I won't have to FERPA them. I am a school administrator at a charter school in the same district. They should know better than to mess with me now! Last year this time, the school had a new principal and I hadn't gone back to work. So they tried all sorts of funny tricks.

Several questions as this discussion has made me curious.

Is MAP testing only done by schools or is it available elsewhere?

It seems like it could be useful for homeschoolers, etc. in determining where to start their kids on certain subjects.

In terms of schools, are these districts giving all the kids the test? I am impressed by any district that is willing to find out a kid is way ahead of grade level - ours just wants to ignore that fact.

Cat

I vaguely remember that there was a virtual academy or other type of setup here letting kids sign up to do MAP that were homeschooling. I remember some threads about it late last spring. Hopefully someone with more details will pipe in.

Our situation is unique because DS is at a charter school. The district doesn't do them and wouldn't know what to do with the info. Just his school does it. They test all kids K-5 three times a year. They tend to focus heavily on the kids that score below 70th percentile and work to bring them up. Those scoring 90th and above are supposed to be receiving full differentiation to match their scores... which I have yet to see.

Some homeschoolers on this board have done the MAP testing through their local public schools. Dazey used a company out of Florida. Here's a link to the thread:
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....8214/those_who_tested_w_NWEA_MAP_th.html

I think most districts are giving all the kids the test because it can help predict the NCLB results. The big issue is what they do with the MAP results. I've started to notice a shift in my district in the language. It used to be the stated goal was every child reaches proficiency. Now, the latest message from the superintendent is "every student makes at least a year�s growth each school year and that those who are behind grow even more so that we can close the gaps."

DD8 started at an accelerated cluster magnet and I was impressed they looked at what % of students were achieving at the 95% on the MAP test. If a school has a goal to make sure each child achieves a year's worth of growth, it's harder to ignore the needs of the gifted. This is one of the reasons I think the MAP test helps advocacy efforts for the parents of gifted children.

Just another question about MAP. Looking at the charts we see where our kids compare to other Grades, but is there a rule of thumb regarding the percentage in a Grade that are actually reaching Grade level? I'm trying to figure out what a real Grade level equivalent is likely to be as the 51st percentile I presume includes those not reaching Grade level? Does this make sense? I'm confusing myself!

It's not specific to the MAP test but this may help:
http://lexile.com/about-lexile/grade-equivalent/

So, what, if anything, is the benefit of joining HEROES for kids who don't live near their location? I'm sure that dd12 has qualifying scores for their scholars program and her reading MAPS from when she was 9 might be high enough for HEROES or were maybe just a point below -- I'd have to go back and pull them out to see.

I'm curious too Cricket!

It looks like they've changed the MAP qualification since I looked last. My DS is now just 6 points from the qualifier in reading. He takes the test again in two weeks and he'll still be 7 so we'll see what that means. I'm not sure it does anything for him one way or the other but it is a good baseline.

It also looks like they added a membership for anyone who is already a DYS?

"HEROES offers two types of membership:

* Full Membership is reserved for students who have a qualifying test score or are members of DYS.
* Associate Membership is available to interested adult.
"