Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment WPPSI-III Ceiling Questions

Is it possible for a 4-11 aged student to score in the superior range, while having "ceilinged" the test by missing "easy" questions?

Background:

We recently had our daughter tested on the WPPSI-III to find out what educational options would be best for her. Although the tester has experience with gifted populations, I didn't feel that his explanations were really clear in the post-testing conference. He started by telling me the reason that she probably did well on some of the questions was through drill (which we don't do at all), and that she likely has a processing disorder (but not specifically which kind...) And that since she is gifted (or close?), she won't be able to get accomodations in school. When I asked what the best course of action would be if she isn't able to get the challenge she needs in a regular classroom, he suggested homeschooling as the *only* option.

Anyway, I don't feel it was a good fit, but I'm not sure if there is a need to re-test in the future.

Her FSIQ came back as a 128, with scaled scores mostly in the 14-15 range, some higher or lower. (I'll post the exact scores this evening after work.)

But during the discussion, the tester said that if we choose to retest, we should do it shortly after she turns 6, to avoid ceiling issues. When I asked something about missing harder questions, he said that she had missed the "easy" ones, part of his reasoning for a processing disorder.

I'm HG/PG. As a student I ended up underchallenged (and therefore an underachiever) all the way through school. I really want to make sure that we are able to advocate for what is best for our daughter. I'm willing to accept a MG label (it may be easier to get what she needs) but I want to make sure that it's correct.

Thanks for any help!

Maryann

I am certainly not a testing expert, but I will be interested in hearing some further opinions on this.

I have a hard time seeing how missing the easy questions suggests a processing disorder. Perhaps there is something else in the results that the tester was referring to. That phenomenon is not uncommon with gifted kids, and is often just an indication that the easy questions don't capture their full attention. My DD is very much like this. She hit the ceiling of quite a few subtests (i.e.--did not reach the discontinue criteria) even though she did not necessarily get top subtest scores.

You might post this question to the TAGFAM GT-Families list on ICORS (I think that's the right name). There is an excellent testing professional who frequents that list, although I think she may be swamped at the moment.

I don't know, but my dd#2's second testing on the WISC-IV looked exactly like what you describe. She took the WISC at 7.5 and came out with a GAI in the upper 140s. B/c her CogAT was in the mid 1-teens and she was a very erratic achiever at school, we were told by her teacher at school that the IQ scores were wrong and due to good guessing. We were very unsure as to what was going on so we had her retested on the WISC and the RIAS a year later at 8.5. She also took the WIAT (achievement) at that time.

On the WISC at 8.5, she didn't reach discontinue guidelines for any subtest, but her GAI dropped 20 pts from a year earlier to the upper 120s. That was due primarily to the PRI dropping from the 99th percentile to the 75th percentile. Like your dd, she missed easy questions and got hard ones correct. The psych basically told us that she felt that the second set of IQ scores were correct and said that she had ruled out any LDs, ADHD, etc. She didn't have a good explanation for the drop in #s, though. Her RIAS was "uninterpretable" due to wide spread in scores and her WIAT scores were 2+ SDs higher than expected if the WISC score was correct.

I, obviously, don't have an answer for you as to whether this is a problematic scoring pattern or indicative of a misestimation of IQ, but I do have a similar situation here with dd.

My gut with dd is that she probably does have some mild degree of ADD as well as anxiety. I don't know if she is more gifted than MG, but we are currently proceeding as if she is MG until we see how she continues to progress emotionally, socially, and academically.

Here are the scores I promised earlier:

Subtests:
Verbal
Information 15
Vocabulary 14
Word Reasoning 14

Performance
Block Design 14
Matrix Reasoning 15
Picture Concepts 10

Processing Speed
(Symbol Search) (14)
Coding 16

General Language
(Receptive Vocabulary) (16)
(Picture Naming) (16)

Supplemental
(Similarities) (15)

Standard scores:
VIQ 127
PIQ 119
PSIQ 122
FSIQ 128
General Language 128

Dottie and Cricket,

Thanks for your responses.


I felt it was likely the case, and was confused about why the tester would make that comment unless she hadn't reached the stopping criteria at/near the end of the questions.

I found out that the WPPSI-III was normed on a sample of 1,700 kids over all age groups. Not accounting for fat tailed distributions, this should only give a total of 34(ish) in the >= very superior range. Not much of a sample. (I know, Wechsler doesn't really intend it for this.)

I'm wondering if the 10 on Picture Concepts isn't an underestimation since gifted kids see connections that the test developers may not have intended (I say this from personal experience). Either way, it's not something I need to worry about at this point.

We initiated this testing to see if she was in the range to qualify for the regional HG/PG program. At this point it doesn't look likely, but that should make our lives easier (Right???).

Her 5th birthday was in early September, which is after the public school cut-off for K. At this point we have her enrolled in a private K program at the Montessori school she's been attending. We're meeting with the public school principal next week to petition to get her into 1st next year.

We just got the glowing letter of recommendation from her K teacher and feel pretty good about that. I'm just hoping that she'll receive the diferentiation she needs in a 1st class (since she's already surpassed the 1st end-of-year objectives).

I'm not sure if I should even mention the private IQ testing to the Principal. I don't want the Principal to feel that we are overboard. On the other hand, I don't want to withhold information either. Thoughts?

We'll likely reserve further testing until we have a need. At which point, achievement testing will give us a much more complete picture.

Thanks again! It's great to have people who understand.

Maryann

On processing disorder -
I think the tester noted that she sometimes couldn't come up with the correct vocabulary for things (ie. vacuum = "sweeper thing"; we have hardwood floors) but she clearly knew what the picture was supposed to be illustrating. She also self-corrected on some items.

My husband may have CAPD, he says his ears "mumble" sometimes. But I haven't noticed that issue with my daughter more often than I would expect is normal (as if I have a concept of normal...) .

That said, I'm guessing that all 3 of us are visual spatial learners to some extent, which may lead to some sequential learning problems. Ergo, further need for diferentiation in the classroom.

We selected this tester because he's the tester used by the HG/PG program to give the confirmation testing. While my original logic seemed sound, "if he tests her and she scores in the right range then she shouldn't have a problem with the follow-up testing." We will likely go with a different tester in the future, even if we need to go elsewhere to get a more complete picture.

I have a question. At what age do you take the processing speed out of the mix? (meaning at what age is the child too young for the processing speed to be an acurate measure).

Our Educational Psychologist gave us a Full scale IQ, and one listed as Prorated Full w/o processing.

How do we know if the processing score can be due to age or a possible LD? When do you start worrying about the processing speed? (DD's coding scaled score was 13, and symbol search was 16) These were the lowest of all her scaled scores.

DD was 4 1/2 at time of testing. We do not think she has a LD, but really do not just want to overlook anything.

Thanks

hi JewelsJC,
13 and 16 are strong scores (i believe 10 is 50th percentile but correct me if i'm wrong someone). Did you get percentiles for these? So if you don't think there is an issue, then its unlikely that there is one. From reading on the board a lot, this is a very common profile for gifted population.
irene

irene -the coding was at 84%, and the symbol search was at 98%. What concerned me was that all the rest of her scaled scores were very close to each other, and the coding was well below the rest. I was wondering if that was like a "red flag" of sorts. I really do not even know what the coding subtest was all about. DD did not give us much information other to say "it was fun".

I guess I should not be looking a gift horse (or gifted child) in the mouth. hee-hee

Yes, I would not worry at all about that. Her processing scores are better than average. Even in kids who have average processing scores along side gifted scores elsewhere, this can be w/o any LD. It is still something, if the difference is very marked, that has to be dealt with; but through normal coping mechanisms.