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    #49203 06/11/09 09:54 AM
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    mmme Offline OP
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    New here, and not sure this is the right forum for my question, so please excuse if so. I searched to see if this question has been addressed before (no doubt it has), but did not find anything. If someone is aware of an old thread on this, please point the way!

    My question is this: My daughter was screened for the GT program in her school, but failed to meet the cutoff (130) on the WISC-IV and was eliminated from the pool. Her scores are all over the map, however, and from what I can gather, big discrepancies like hers in composite scores should cause the examiner to figure the score using something other than the FSIQ. Her verbal composite is 145, and her GAI is well above the cutoff (can't recall exact number). But the school insists on going with the FSIQ.

    Has anyone been in this position? I wonder what the best tack would be for advocacy? The school is aware of the GAI but chooses not to use it.... If she's not "officially" gifted then the school provides zero accommodation, not even differentiation in the classroom.

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    The score czarrenna will weigh in soon, but let's prep her and others.

    Age/Grade

    Did they group test? Was the tester qualified? Does your school only accept a specific # of kids (motive for weighting down)? Does she have any standard achievement tests on file? Can you afford/being willing to privately test to appeal?

    Yes, I 145 verbal is worth coming up with a plan here to figure out if something is wacky imho. And imho, a 145 kid even if verbal is going to need some services...

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    mmme Offline OP
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    Of course, more info is needed. Let's see....

    age 9 (just), finishing gr 3

    They group tested first, but she did not qualify in that round. She was put in the pool for GT assessment when her teacher recommended her. But her teacher really didn't want to discuss it with me even then when I just had basic questions about the process, so I don't think I'll find an advocate there. Everyone is very off-putting; I think they are all afraid of parents becoming advocates. Seriously. :-)

    She has a 99+ Slossen score as well as a 97% achievement test score.

    Her school achievement is very good but not remarkable, I think? No grades or comparative assessments so it's hard to say how she's actually doing. She's a very compliant, agreeable child, wants to be liked. But she also sometimes has a hard time focusing and following instruction. Especially if she's not interested in the task. For example, she was doing just awful in math until I started grading her homework (had to explain what grades were first), and then she was motivated enough to do things like read the directions--and stopped getting called in for remedial work and started complaining that they were STILL working on xyz.

    I would be happy to privately test but can't imagine that will help here. She can't retake the WISC-IV for another year, and anyway, my argument is that her scores should warrant identification as is. But I would absolutely pursue anything worth pursuing, and I know others here will have ideas.

    The school does have a cap on GT placement. This is a clear disincentive to identifying giftedness. But it is what it is and I would have to fight the state to get that changed. I need to get her identified first.

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    Forgot to add that the WISC-IV tester was the school psychologist.

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    I'd share the NAGC position statement with them and ask why they're going against the recommendations.

    http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=2455

    Quote
    In light of these circumstances, where comprehensive testing is available, NAGC recommends that WISC-IV Full Scale IQ scores not be required for admission to gifted programs. Instead, the following guidelines are suggested:

    When the WISC-IV is used for the identification of gifted students, either the General Ability Index (GAI), which emphasizes reasoning ability, or the Full Scale IQ Score (FSIQ), should be acceptable for selection to gifted programs. The GAI should be derived using the table provided in the Harcourt Assessments website (Technical Report 4)[http://harcourtassessments.com/hai/Images/pdf/wisciv/WISCIVTechReport4.pdf]

    The Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI) and the Perceptual Reasoning Index (PRI) are also independently appropriate for selection to programs for the gifted, especially for culturally diverse, bilingual, twice exceptional students or visual-spatial learners. It is important that a good match be made between the strengths of the child and the attributes of the program. Students who have special learning needs should be admitted to gifted programs, provided that there are other indications of giftedness and instructional modifications are made to fit the needs of the students.

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    Go to technical paper #4 on the Wisc-IV Harcourt Brace page.

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    mmme Offline OP
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    Ugh, I already brought this up and it had no effect.

    I don't get the sense I'm dealing with gifted advocates.


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    Bummer frown
    Did they say how they intend to meet her need for more advanced curriculum?

    P.S. I'd probably write a letter that contains her scores, the NAGC position statement, and your request for her to be included in the gifted program. Sometimes it's easier to say no to a verbal request than a written one.


    Last edited by inky; 06/11/09 12:41 PM. Reason: P.S.
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    mmme Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by inky
    Bummer frown
    Did they say how they intend to meet her need for more advanced curriculum?

    Remember, she's not gifted according to her FSIQ. So they don't feel she has any need for more advanced curriculum.

    When it became clear to me that they weren't budged by the NAGC statement, I asked for some very basic accommodation (like making sure she was paired with at least one other bright kid next year in her regular classroom). I was told that they couldn't do this.

    So you see why it's so important to me that her WISC-IV score is interpreted properly. I'm confused about why they don't respond to the fact that there is a huge discrepancy in her composite scores. I thought it was pretty well established that this would render the test invalid, forcing the examiner to use the GAI for this reason alone. Frankly, I'm not fighting to get her in the GT program. I just want it acknowledged that SOME differentiation needs to occur.

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    I understand you're in a Catch-22 and the one way out is to show the FSIQ is uninterpretable. How frustrating! frown

    Do you have a copy of the report? If not, I'd ask for it under FERPA.

    With the report, you'll have the answers to these questions:
    Is there a 23 point discrepancy between the VCI and PRI?
    Is there a large amount of variability in the index scores?

    Here are some links to help:

    www.radford.edu/~bhiltons/IQ%20Test%20InterpretationWISCIV.ppt

    See slide 22 & 25

    www.sciencedestinations.org/images/2009symposium-Gilman.ppt

    See slide 7


    Another idea is do private achievement testing and apply for DYS based on the 145 VCI. They may have some better ideas on how to get the school to budge.

    http://www.davidsongifted.org/young...holars___Qualification_Criteria_384.aspx

    I'm curious about why you're not fighting to get her into the gifted program?


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