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    #3815 10/08/07 09:09 AM
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    Hi, everyone

    I posted a few months back and greatly appreciated all the advice and thoughtful comments. Now I need some more of those!I know some of you must have had similar experiences and I need your words of wisdom.
    I have two wonderful daughters, ages 5 and 6. When we applied for private school, we were shocked that they both had trouble with the very basic screening process.(We still don't understand why) My oldest DD has always appeared bright and exhibited many of the signs of giftedness.
    When we had her tested, I was somewhat surprised that her FSIQ was 120. Upon doing some research, her score would be 130 if you calculated the GAI or the DWI...(I hope I'm using the correct terminology) She has perfectionist tendencies and some signs of anxiety if she is not SURE of the answer to something, and I mean SURE. The child will not guess. Her score on the Processing Speed Index was only 8 for each subtest of coding & symbol search. So this really lowered her FSIQ. The psychologist said perfectionist tendencies can definately affect this score. Anyway, this was all fine with us, we are just happy to have a healthy, normal child.

    Well, I had to have my younger DD tested. She is a perfectly normal child, seems bright, but has not exibited any signs of giftedness. The psychologist told me younger sibs were typically just behind the first born. So I was expecting an IQ right around 120 or slightly lower. I was shocked to get her results. I never expected this. Her FSIQ is 143.

    Here is my question: I really think DD #1 is AT LEAST as bright as DD#2. What do you all make of this? If their IQs are really that far apart, wouldn't I have noticed? Have you all had such spread amongst sibs, & if so, could you tell the difference? I really think I'll have DD#1 retested next year. Any advice or thoughts wll be GREATLY appreciated.

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    DD#2 was tested on the WPPSI. Her profiles are flatter, they are all 15-19 except for one: symbol search is 13.
    Achievement testing was done for both. The tester felt that their achievement scores were not as high as they will be once they are in a "more formal academic setting". Both girls attended (DD#2 is still there) a Montessori preschool/kindergarten. DD#1 is now in first grade at a private school. She has really blossomed there. I now feel I need to seriously consider trying to get DD#2 over there. I guess the tale will be told when they take achievemnet tests administered by the school in 3rd grade.
    But here is something I really don't have a good grasp on: Does having an IQ of 143 really mean anything (other than the obvious.....smart kid)? Is there anything I should be doing???
    Or should I let her lead the way?
    In reading other posts and thinking about my own experience, I realize you cannot trust the schools to do what is best or to even know what is best.

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    Originally Posted by pinkmonkey
    She has perfectionist tendencies and some signs of anxiety if she is not SURE of the answer to something, and I mean SURE. The child will not guess. Her score on the Processing Speed Index was only 8 for each subtest of coding & symbol search. So this really lowered her FSIQ. The psychologist said perfectionist tendencies can definately affect this score. Anyway, this was all fine with us, we are just happy to have a healthy, normal child.

    When ever one takes an IQ/Achievment test, there should be a question on is trying to answer. For your DD6 is was - Why is this bright girl failing her screening test? You didn't get an accurate IQ but you did get an answer - her perfectionism interfered with getting accurate test results, and also with her screening. Question is - is this behavior also interfering with her life? Is it being caused by lack of challenge? Or by excessive praise of in-born traits instead of character traits?

    My perspective is that for girls it is very difficult emotionally, for almost all adults, to allow them to struggle. So at school, and perhaps at home, she will not have many opportunities to build the real self esteem that comes from doing the "impossible." Low self esteem = nervous behavior = lower expectaions and demands = even lower self esteem, KWIM?

    Even though I am female, I was lucky enough to be raised in the bad old days when this mean I was "built in baby-sitter" to my 3 younger brothers. So at the very least I was asked to do the "impossible" on a daily basis - keep three brats entertained and safe. Now in our more enlightened era even this path to self assurance is closed more and more.

    I'm not suggesting that you have more children and assign them to DD6 - LOL! I reccomending that you thoughtfully find a way to keep her challenged academically. If this new school is doing it, you will see a decrease in this perfectionistic behavior.

    As for DD5, do you see her dominating DD6 when they play together? If not, you can guess that their scores will be "about even" once DD6 discovers her self esteem. Since you have two of them, I would reccomend developing a "After Homework from school, you have homework from Mom" and make sure that it is as challenging as you can make it. Start with materials developed for children around age 9, and adjust from there. I would reccomend making it a ritual, and keeping this afterschooling as part of your family identity. The thoughtful part comes in where you try to know them well enough to pick challenging academics that they will be at least a bit interested in. Expect tantrums- drooping - and complaining -
    Get that light in your eyes and be inspired and inspiring. You may need special costumes -
    ?a tee shirt for you which says -

    Mother - She who must be Obeyed!

    for them tee shirts that say -
    "Winning builds Confidence. Losing builds Character!" (One of my favorite lines from Dr. Sylvia Rimm)

    So, yes, i think that girls need special attention. After you get the aftercare rolling, you'll be in a better position to compare what she is doing at home to what she is doing at school. BTW - Some folks consider Perfectionism something that is learned from Mom and Dad, and I'm sure that for many people that is true. But to be very honest, for a girl who has early milestones like your DD6 being in a regular preschool can be terrifing. I wouldn't accept one ounce of blame on yourself at this time, until at least she is in a classroom where to world isn't upside down all the time. My DS always said that the easy questions were the hardest to answer because he was SURE that they must be wrong. Lucky for him, boys tend to blame the teachers and the world - many girls go the otherway and try to make themselves fit into that little round hole!

    Best Wishes - Make a Plan - Go! Go! Go!
    Trinity



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    Thanks, Dottie and Trinity

    Dottie...I'm so new to all this...how do you even go about above level achievement testing? I thought that when they took their regular achievement tests, scores around the 98th-99th percentile would tell you what you needed to know. If they do score that high, does the school suggest above level testing? Or do I request it? And from whom?

    One thing I have JUST learned....since DD6 started a college prep private school (after Montessori) she has BLOSSOMED. She comes home from school excited & that makes me so happy. I now realize she was indeed understimulated at Montessori; unfortunately this is a realization only in hindsight. After receiving the results of DD5, I definately will have DD6 retested in a year. Have any of you had a perfectionist type child retested? I just know she is at least as bright as her sister.

    DD5 test results are in the more highly gifted range. Do you all recommend retesting in one year on the WISC?

    Trinity....I love and completely agree with the Sylvia Rimm quote.Thank you for sharing that with me; my children will be hearing that for years to come!
    The self esteem issue is a difficult one. I don't want my children to have an inflated since of their self worth. I try to be very careful to praise them for hard work and not innate gifts...and "gifts" really are just that..Gifts. You don't earn them, they are given. It's all about what you do with what you've been given!

    I do know that our children are lucky to have parents who advocate for them. I think of all the bright ones who are in terrible circumstances all over the world...my children and I are so blessed.

    Thank you all for yopur thoughts/ideas/quotes!

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    Hi, everyone

    I had a meeting w/ the Admissions Office/principal where DD5 was not admitted to Kindergarten (after a screening last spring thay felt she had "maturity" issues....I couldn't agree less; that's why we had her tested) We provided them with her test results (WPPSI score of 143). We requested they reconsider their decision based on this data and they have kindly offered to do so (DD6 is already there and doing great). One thing struck me as kind of odd, though....they read the report, asked us what we wanted, offered for DD5 to come spend the day next week, but never made one comment at all about her actual scores. I just found that strange. What would you all have expected?

    I guess I was hoping they would have more to say, that they would offer some insight or advice or just something.

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    Sorry Pink Monkey,
    Schools are very wary of IQ scores.
    1) Score like that are rare.
    2) some kids with scores like that will do well academically, and some will "stink." Since "LOG" - level of gifted is such a new concept, most school folks will see:"High Score - stinky performance = Scores are not reliable." Hopefully we are all moving toward the understanding that "stinky performance + high scores = underplaced child, so adjust placement and try again"

    Best Wishes,
    Trinity


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    Ah, from your fingertips to the brains of school administrators everywhere, Trinity!


    Kriston
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    Originally Posted by pinkmonkey
    ...they read the report, asked us what we wanted,
    So PM - when they asked what you wanted for DD5 - what did you say? What do you want? Is she reading? What level books? Can you schedual a day where you observe without her there? Key thing about a female child who is scoring in the 140s and looking "average" is -
    a) She must be really good at looking around at the kids around her and mimicing
    b) you probably have a somewhat inflated view of what average is.

    So - if you have a chamelion kid, you owe it to her to but her in surroundings that aproximate her true nature. This is not an easy task. It will likely take years of observation and nudges and supported pushing.


    But - first things first, is to check out the classroom and see if it at least matches your conception of where she is at.
    Does this advice seem to fit?
    Trinity


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