Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Afraid for my son to start school

I've read about gifted children going"underground" and I"m so worried that when my gifted (just turned) 3 year old starts preschool in a few days that he will do that! It's my worst fear for him that he won't try in school because he will already know all that is being taught. I've never had contact with other parents who have gifted children so this is exciting to be able to communicate this way. I posted about a year ago, but never got to read a response because i lost this site and couldn't find it again!
Anyhow, I've been kind of in denial of his gifted-ness. But tonight before my son Andrew went to bed, I was writing 3 and 4 letter words on a chalk board and he was reading them! I've worked with him little with reading. I'm so afraid of him being too advanced when he starts school, I thought maybe if I don't teach him things he'll be able to learn from his teachers. Anyway, i see now that he is going to be advanced no matter what i do. And not having my support is the worst thing i can do. I have to help and support him!
What can I do for him to, help him do well in school, not just sit back because it's easy. What do i need to do to get his teachers support.

Hi Jenafur,
So glad you found us again. You got some great tips last time, so find them by left -clicking on your name that's underlined in the post above, and go to the choice: view posts.

Questions about the preschool -
1) how many hours per day?
2) how many children in the classroom?
3) what age of kids will he be interacting with?
4) what books about gifted have you read so far?
5) is it already paid for?
6) are you in a position where you "have to" send him?

smiles and welcome back,
Trin - who was in total denial see my "crash and burn" post - and learn from my mistakes!
((big grinning Trin))

Since this is your first child, I imagine that you don't have older siblings around for a nice balancing game of Clue, although if you can arrange it, that would be terrific.

I've got an "only" and "had" to work, 20 hours at until age 3, at which time I decided to work 30 to get some sanity. He had so much energy, and with no older sibling - can you guess who his playmate was? Me.

gifted kids can really wear one out! and with that extra awareness of the world can bring extra worries. So he got a lot out of his daycare environment - but we payed a really high price. It's where his deep sense of "not being able to fit in" and "being surrounded by beings he couldn't understand or trust." Ouch!

A preschool that encourages play and learning how to get along in a different rule-based environment is good. One that stresses academics at the wrong level is really bad. The best is one that mixes the ages by a few years when your kid is the youngest!

To get an idea of "how gifted" try Deb Ruf's book- Losing Our Minds, Gifted Children Left behind. Take good notes of his accomplishments.

Smiles,
Trinity

Well it is actually a Head-Start program, which I haven't received much information about. I believe head Start is just a California thing? It's a free preschool program, anyway I have the choice to either have him taught at a center or (because we're in the country) in my home. I was planning on him being taught in the center, just for the social interaction, I haven't really decided which would be best for him. I haven't really read any books about giftedness yet. I do have one book I haven't really read much of yet called " Stand up for Your Gifted Child". I did read the small poppies article on here though, and was amazed that from what I read, he might be highly gifted? Anyway, I guess you can't really know until they're old and can be tested. How old can a child be tested at? Where do you take them to be tested? Does having them tested benefit them?
What kids of things do your gifted children do that surprizes you. I have loved hearing things people wrote about in the forums.
Today we were making patterns with wooden lacing beads, and when Andrew was done he lined up 3 circular ones and put two beads up and down on each side and said, "Look, it's a Dragonfly".

Hi Jenafur,

Here's a link to a checklist that will help you document your son's estimated level of giftedness. http://www.educationaloptions.com/levels_giftedness.htm
Skim down about halfway and find the list of developmental milestones. I believe that these are as good as the IQ tests for establishing a "floor" to your child's gifted level.

Here's an example. My son did not teach himself to read, although he did know his numbers early and was reading simple chapter books at age 6, and did lots of puzzles on the computer, but fewer actual ones, questioned everything including the toothfairy, Santa, Easter Bunny, and liked the longer Dr. Suess books, such as "The Lorax" at age 3. He also loved listening to the Oz books and Phantom Toolbooth. As best I can remember, he seems to fit the Ruf level III, and that's where his overall scores at age 7 fit. Is he even more gifted than that? He might be. His ability to focus and track with his eyes seems to be a bit slow to mature, and that may account for him not teaching himself to read, although he knew the letters and felt that he "should" be able to read. Last summer I took him to a "Develomental Optomitrist" to learn more, and according to them he was reading at a 12 grade level even with definite eye movement and focusing problems. In my mind these tests establish a floor, so that I can look for educational options that meet the needs of a Level III kid, or higher.

Even the standard IQ tests done by a professional aren't foolproof. If a child is doing school work 2 or 3 years above what his agemates can do, she is gifted no matter what the test results are. The trick is getting your child into situations where they have the opportunity to work to their readiness level.

Sorry I'm being so long winded, but read through all the posts regarding baby and toddlers and preschoolers, using the search function, or browsing. There are a lot of puzzled mom's of toddlers out there.

Head Start is a national program that intends to get kids ready for school. See if you can spend some time observing a classroom. If your son already know what they are spending a lot of time teaching - please don't send him there. I mean, at this age, would you leave him in a room full of crying 6 month olds? I wouldn't do that for more than 15 minutes 3 times a week. Observe with your own eyes and ask yourself how these children will look to your child.

I think that it's good that they will come to you and help document what he is doing. Yes he could be highly gifted. No you don't have to wait for him to be 5 or or 7 to know for sure -you won't ever know for sure! The checklist won't trick you into thinking he's More gifted than he really is. But highly gifted kids can learn to mask their gifts, even from professional tester, when they percieve that adults don't expect or want their gifts (read CKF's crash and burn story) so that's why I want you to print out the list, put it on the refrigerator, and when hits a milestone, jot down his age. Next year you can look back and start thinking about early kindy or homeschooling all together.

Smiles,
trinity

I went over the levels of giftedness and I believe he is a Level 4. I'm not real sure of maybe 2 of the milestones though, I wish i had kept better record. I have written about 5 journal entry's since he was born, so it's hard to be exactly sure. And of course i wont know what he's like at 4,5,6,or seven for a while.
It's crazy, my guess before the past day or so all was level one! Thanks for that link!
Some things i didn't know to do, like although I'm SURE he isn't level 5 or anything, but it says they could do puzzles before 12 months. He didn't even own a puzzle before twelve months, I wouldn't have thought to give him one. Their are a few questions like that, where he never had the opportunity to know the things, like I never even thought to tell him about colors before about 15 months. Well, other than through reading to him. I have read a lot to him since the day he was born. I wonder about the effects of things like that. If It makes a lot of difference how the parents worked with a child, or read to a child. We go to the library every week and have been as long as I can remember. I'm always at my limit number of books checked out. I bet if more parents read more to their children, they'd all be lots smarter. no?
Thanks for the ideas about older Dr. Seuss and the books on tape, I hadn't thought of that. As a matter of fact my husband and I enjoy Harry Potter books and were reading the last book for a few days aloud, to each other. He handed me the book the other day and asked me to read it, I just shrugged it off. Maybe he was actually kind of enjoying it? Wanting to hear more? I don't know some things like that had never entered my mind. Like listening to audio books of the Oz series. I just have no idea of possibilities of his interests.
I did let him check out 2 non fiction books the other day, both out of the norm for his age, and he loved them! One was about trains throughout history, an eye witness, and the other about planets, and the earth, that answered questions like why do we have night and day, and many things i thought would make him board for me to read to him, He loved it, and wanted me to read both of them every night! SOrry, I'm going on and on, but, I"m figuring him out as I talk. Gosh thank you for everything. I just feel like I'm recieving so much help so I can understand him! THank you so, so much!
Now i just have to convince my husband, he says "Every parent thinks their child is gifted". He's the one that carries the gifted genes...definatly not me, so maybe that is why if feels normal to him, the way Andrew is?

As Dottie might say, the mistakes you make on this one pave the way for the next one! No one does all the things on that list, as it's a compilation - But one of the things I like about the list is that it guides parents on what activities to try with their kids, in a casual way. As for an "enriched" environment making kids smarter, I think the research shows that this is true, but too small to be a big deal. The bigger deal is that kids are happier when their "learning" appatite is filled. The bigger deal is that time spent together builds close relationships.

I love the way you are integrating what you are learning with things you know about your child - it's so great to watch the blinders that our culture puts on us fall away. Well Done.
Love and More Love,
Trinity

If you are feeling really brave go to the Reccomended Resource Forum and check out the other Ruf link, the one that tells how each level of school interacts with kids of various levels of giftedness.

If you can get the book that this is all based on (Losing our Minds) from Interlibrary Loan, perhaps you can read some of the cute stories aloud to your husband, or leave it in the bathroom where he might accidentally read it. By printing out the lists and putting them on the refrigerator so you can fill in the dates as you go, your husband will see it in "black and white." Another approach is to get some general parenting books from the library and post the normal milestones with the normal ages, so he can see for himself. Of course the best way is to find some normal 3 year old kids and let DH be in charge of a few playdates, or make sure he spends time at the preschool so he can see the range of what children are really like.

Best Wishes,
Trinity

Hi Jenafur:

Some quick advice about dealing with your husband's giftedness denial. Since he isn't receptive to the idea your child is "gifted," just don't use the word and don't focus on categorizing (at least with him, yet). Rather, when you explain that you want to do some particular thing (homeschool, pursue early entrance to school, skip HeadStart) explain that you want to take these actions because of your son's particular readiness level, needs, interests, etc. For example, "I spoke to the kindergarten about the typical day, and learned they spend 30 minutes in circle time each morning going over the letters of the alphabet and their sounds. The whole daily schedule is full of activities designed to teach skills and information he already has. I'm concerned he will be bored, become accustomed to never having a challenge, or come to hate school. Let's see if there are any other options for him."

You're talking to your husband about modifying the curriculum, based on the gifted characteristics your child is showing, but you aren't using the word gifted. I've actually found this to be a good way of talking to teachers about my child, since so many are dubious and seem to recoil at a parent's use of the word!

What I've told teachers: My child is a really fast learner. He gets frustrated when classes spend too long going over the same information. He comes home really excited any day he learns something new. He comes home depressed on days when he hasn't learned anything new. My child has an amazing memory and thirst for knowledge, so he wants to learn a lot of detail about any subject you are covering. For example, he thought ____book about chemistry was really boring because it had so few facts. He really liked ____ book about chemistry because it provided more facts and interesting things to think about. He has gotten so frustrated about not getting called on that he doesn't bother to try to raise his hand and answer questions any more.

So, you've talked about his needs without using the dreaded "g" word that seems so off-putting to a number of teachers.

Sorry this is such a rambling answer. It's 10:40 at night here and I should go to bed for my early waking.

Write back and let us know how everything progresses

BK

BK - that is a beautiful post! Thanks so much. I wish I knew you back when I was starting out - would have saved a lot of aggravation. I never said that a school program was bad or inadaquate - only that there was a "fit problem" between the program and my son.

Smiles,
Trin

The over the article about what the levels of giftedness need. It says that a Level 4 needs no requires a type 111 or type 1V school. How do i find a school like that. I"m pretty sure there is nothing around here like that. But even if their was, I definatly couldn't afford it! We're getting my husband through school, and I"m a stay at home mom. I plan on continuing to be. It there a way that low income families can put their children in these kinds of schools? Also how do i find them? I can't understand how in the world he's going to get all the support he needs. If I were to find a person to test him would that kind of proof help me with the support?
how would i find such a person?

So how do you get schools to let them go to kindergarden early or skip other grades? Isn't it against the rules?

Lately my son Andrew has been enjoying giving me wrong answers on purpose. I know he knows the right answer.I don't understand why he's doing this. Is that a common gifted child thing to do, or just common in kids?
Like last night I asked him what his phone number was, and he kept saying he didn't know, when I knew he did. Finally he told me, but then changed the last number to something else and smiled real big and sneaky like. Or we were playing this game where I put down a card that has a picture of something, for instance, a doll, and I put down three different word cards, one of which says doll, and I ask him to point to the card that says doll. Most times he points to the right one, or if he's unsure sometimes to the wrong one; but then other times I know he knows the right answer and he chooses both wrong answers first and thinks it's funny. I just worry that he'll do that in school and the teachers will really think he doesn't know things.

Jen,

I see that your son has just turned three and is starting pre-school. The fact that he has a summer b-day, rather than a fall birthday is definitely a bonus!

I would advise you to start calling schools to ask if they evaluate for early entry into K. I seriously doubt that you will find a public school willing to consider more than one year early entrance, but it wouldn�t hurt to start investigating now if your goal is to get him into K next fall. You might luck out and find a public school that has a process for early entrance. More likely, you will be told that if a child needs to be grade advanced, the teachers will make that recommendation. The worst possible answer is that the school offers an already advanced program, so there is no need to accelerate.

I have read on a YS email list that often the school districts with the least resources, a level I or II, are more flexible in regards to grade acceleration. Level III schools (our public district) are the least likely. One reason cited is that there may be fewer other parents at theI or II school who will be clamoring to have their child accelerated also.

It sounds like you son�s behavior is typical for a gifted or non-gifted child.

Hopefully, he won�t play that game if you bring him in for an educational assessment.

Good to know, I believe the schools in our town are probably level 1. Its a big farming community (central CA, by Fresno) so it is mostly the Mexican Farm workers, and other low income families. So that makes me feel better, from what you say, maybe it won't be as hard as I thought to get them to let him to start Kindergarden next fall. : )

We also live in a farm community with a level 1 school. My son is probably a level 4. We have had very little trouble getting his needs met there. He kind of stands out like a sore thumb, but a pleasant sore thumb, adn the teachers seem to really appreciate having them in their class and doing whatever they can to keep his brain engaged. He is always given advanced work to do, but has not ever been full grade accelerated. he is happy and learning.

See my full post "introduction and public school success story" under Educational Advocacy for my full story and what worked for us. Start getting ideas, but don't panic yet. Sure, there are lots of people who have had very real problems, but problems are not inevitable.

Thanks Trinity. I just figured this out last year after a few years of getting sidetracked by people reacting to the g-word.

Jenafur:

FYI, I agree that the level I school is more likely to accelerate. I grew up in poor rural areas and sometimes was in mixed-grade classes. I finally got formally subject-accelerated in the fall of 7th grade when we moved to a big town (27,000 pop) and I marched into the counselor's office and asked for it. I said I already knew the material that was covered. They said, "OK," instantly, before I presented any arguments in favor of acceleration, and the counselor moved me -- the same day -- up at least one grade in most subjects --- every subject I asked for. I told them where I should be!

I don't think they even asked my mom, since they did it instantly. She was actually opposed to acceleration. My brother was one of those so obviously brilliant little kids that he had multiple teachers in various grades (including his first grade teachers) suggest that he be grade accelerated. My mom always refused to allow him to accelerate. She did not respond at all to my fait accompli. I was able to handle it on my own. It was a small town and I could walk to the high school for the necessary classes and there was a half-hour difference in start times. I much preferred the h.s. students to the jr hi students! I joined HS clubs and felt like I fit in a bit better socially.


Of course, by then I had my standardized test record to support what I was asking for -- and they later gave me an IQ test for entry into their gifted program. It is tougher when you don't yet have a history or a record.

I would say don't expect the school to recognize your child is brilliant. He may not manifest himself at school. I didn't at all (daydreaming and getting in trouble for talking and writing my own illustrated books instead of doing classwork) until the second grade state achievement tests came back. For a lot of kids, that's too long to wait. Also, don't expect them to offer acceleration unless you bring it up. Looking back, I should have accelerated much sooner. I was constantly in trouble in second and third grade -- in my recollection, I think I may have been paddled almost every day of third grade for talking and distracting the other students who hadn't finished their work. By 4th, I had learned to rush through the worksheets and bury my head in a book until the rest of the class was done.

Ask for a meeting with staff at the local elementary school. Explain your concerns to the school, in terms of skills and info already learned, thirst for knowledge, as described above, and ask for the school to give him a placement test. I really don't know which to recommend. Perhaps if you look at the Iowa Acceleration Manual?

Good luck,

bk

Thank you BK1. That helps a lot. Before hearing the opinion of you and a few others on here I was against grade acceleration. Afraid he wouldn't fit in, because he'd be behind physically and socially. But for everyone on here that I have heard about that had children that did so, or did so themselves, It seemed to have really benefited. After preschool this year I'd like to try to get him into Kinder garden next fall.

Thanks also ACS. That really gives me hope that the school's here might do the same for my son!