Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about the Davidson Academyís online campus for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute
  • DITD FaceBook   DITD Twitter   DITD YouTube
    The Davidson Institute is on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube!

    How gifted-friendly is
    your state?

    Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update

    Who's Online
    0 registered (), 0 Guests and 388 Spiders online.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    TEACHERMOM3.14, Drusillain, chinnny, Fast Words, LC001
    11242 Registered Users
    December
    Su M Tu W Th F Sa
    1 2 3
    4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    11 12 13 14 15 16 17
    18 19 20 21 22 23 24
    25 26 27 28 29 30 31
    Page 2 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
    Topic Options
    #247872 - 12/31/20 03:07 AM Re: Looking for advice on how to proceed... [Re: sj4iy]
    sj4iy Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/30/20
    Posts: 23
    I understand what you mean about some parents feeling pressured into putting their child on medication by the school...but it's not something we would consider.

    I really appreciate the advice and the specificity of your answer, because it will help us when we are talking to the advocate about what is happening and what we are hoping for. At this point in time, school feels more like a daycare and we end up doing all of his missing assignments after he gets home. It's not a sustainable solution.

    I will look into getting an FBA and IEE and I'll ask about the procedure for reimbursement when I talk to an advocate. I'll update once I have. I'm thankful for all the advice I've beeng given.

    Top
    #248756 - 04/25/21 12:35 PM Re: Looking for advice on how to proceed... [Re: sj4iy]
    sj4iy Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/30/20
    Posts: 23
    It's been a while, but wanted to give an update:

    The school has reassessed my son for a new 504 because of the new diagnosis for ADHD. I'm working with an advocate to gather information to request an IEE as well as a diagnosis of dysgraphia (writing continues to be his biggest educational challenge so far).

    The school has continued to ignore his need for enrichment and challenge, so I have been doing what I can at home with programs, workbooks and games to help him progress. His recent map rit scores (3rd grade Winter) are 228 in math, 216 in reading and 215 in science (which they just added). Despite this, the school has kept him in a small group that is meant for kids with scores below his own (13 out of 20, with group 1 being the highest).

    The new 504 meeting is in May, so hopefully I'll have more information then. Thank you to everyone who helped out.


    Edited by sj4iy (04/26/21 10:01 AM)

    Top
    #248757 - 04/25/21 01:37 PM Re: Looking for advice on how to proceed... [Re: sj4iy]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4957
    Originally Posted By: sj4iy
    ... ADHD... dysgraphia... new 504 meeting is in May...

    In case any of the information at these links may be of help:
    - Understood.org - 107 articles on dysgraphia
    - Wrightslaw.com - special education law and advocacy - includes 272 results for dysgraphia

    IEPs and 504s:
    1) Wrightslaw - SMART IEPs -
    https://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/plan_iep_goals.html

    2) Measurable goals for IEPs discussed in a resource linked at this old post -
    http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/B...html#Post210194

    3) This old post discusses IEPs/504s and suggested wording -
    http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/B...html#Post234023

    4) This old post links to IEP/504 resources including FAQ Pop-ups -
    http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/B...html#Post235889

    Top
    #248759 - 04/26/21 04:44 AM Re: Looking for advice on how to proceed... [Re: sj4iy]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1685
    I have say that I am so impressed indigo how you are always on top of all the necessary links.

    Top
    #248761 - 04/26/21 10:00 AM Re: Looking for advice on how to proceed... [Re: indigo]
    sj4iy Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/30/20
    Posts: 23
    Thank you for all of the links! I really appreciate all the help people here have given.

    Top
    #248768 - 04/26/21 08:50 PM Re: Looking for advice on how to proceed... [Re: sj4iy]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4957
    Glad if something in the list is helpful!
    Sometimes, locating pertinent information can be elusive, like finding a needle in a haystack.

    Hope your meeting goes well!
    (BTW, have you read the collection of discussion threads on advocacy and meeting prep?)

    Top
    #248840 - 05/13/21 09:34 PM Re: Looking for advice on how to proceed... [Re: sj4iy]
    sj4iy Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/30/20
    Posts: 23
    I had the new 504 meeting today. Before I go on, during the fall he was also tested for a writing disability...I will put the scores here:

    His WIAT III scores and percentiles were:

    Reading Comprehension: 123 (94)
    Math Problem Solving: 123 (94)
    Alphabet Writing Fluency: 80 (9)
    Spelling: 91 (27)
    Sentence Composition: 89 (23)
    Sentence Combining: 111 (77)
    Sentence Building: 70 (2)
    Essay Composition: NS (he had a meltdown and hid under the table)
    Listening Comprehension: 120 (91)
    Receptive Vocab: 109: (73)
    Oral Discourse Comprehension: 123 (94)

    Latest Map Scores:

    Math: 228 (99)
    Reading: 216 (93)
    Science: 215 (95)

    The school psychologist said he did not have dysgraphia and that he avoids writing because he doesn't like to do it, even though he had a full on meltdown doing the writing portion. So, none of that was really addressed at today's meeting and I was shot down when I disagreed that he avoided his work because he didn't like it. He didn't receive many meaningful accommodations and there have been some big problems at school with behavioral problems.

    When I argued that he's avoiding work because he doesn't like writing and he's bored, I was also shot down and told "He is not twice exceptional" because he didn't memorize his multiplication tables (he prefers to do them in his head). When I said that he hasn't learned much in 3rd grade Math, the principal used his Map scores to try to 'prove' that he jumped up that far because of Math Class. I said that he he has been above the 95th percentile in math since Kindergarten all but two times...and one time he just decided he didn't want to do it. I was called a liar (not literally but it was absolutely implied) by several people when I said that he's being treated unfairly because of his problems (even though I have proof that he was put in a small group below his ability because of his behavior).

    At this point I have no real hope of getting real help from the school willingly. I think the fact that he twice exceptional is making it really difficult for him to receive an IEP and a GIEP.

    In some good news he was accepted into both Northwestern's CTD program for the summer and John Hopkin's CTY program for the fall (through the pilot program) for both math and reading. Thanks for reading...sorry if it's not terribly comprehensible.

    Top
    #248841 - 05/14/21 05:19 AM Re: Looking for advice on how to proceed... [Re: sj4iy]
    spaghetti Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/05/15
    Posts: 474
    Sounds like the meeting was a bit contentious. I'll start with a possible school point of view-- the small group may be how he learns best. Does he need someone close by to help him keep on track? I do think that schools do not like it when parents "know best". Some do and I love those schools, but some school teams have a thought in their head about what a child with special needs looks like and if your kid isn't it, they look for reasons why you're wrong.

    Second, not sure why the school says no writing disability. This is a time when an outside assessor may be helpful. The profile looks similar to my dysgraphic though the testing gurus will certainly have something more reliable to say on this. Mine had other tests also.

    What about writing in school? Do they have work samples? How's the handwriting? How's the timed writing?

    How I would approach it is that he may or may not meet their criteria for a disability in writing, but emotionally, he is learning to hate writing. He has a negative emotional response. What can we do to support him?

    And I'd teach him to type pronto.

    Top
    #248842 - 05/14/21 05:53 AM Re: Looking for advice on how to proceed... [Re: sj4iy]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4957
    Sorry to hear the meeting did not go well.

    It appears that being advanced in math and having difficulty with written expression are the two major issues discussed at this meeting, and each issue may not have been addressed individually?

    Hopefully you've read and studied the contents of previously posted advocacy links. For now, I'll dive into the topic of dysgraphia. Please do not feel obliged to answer these questions on the forum, they are only meant to help guide/organize, not to have you share information publicly.
    - What evidence do you have of dysgraphia?
    - Is your evidence documented?
    - Have you had an independent evaluation for dysgraphia? Have you received the results?
    - Has the school conducted an evaluation for dysgraphia? A functional assessment? Have you received the results?
    - Have you researched online, including UNDERSTOOD DYSGRAPHIA (https://www.understood.org/en/learning-t...ding-dysgraphia), WRIGHTSLAW DYSGRAPHIA (https://www.wrightslaw.com/info/read.dysgraphia.facts.htm, https://www.wrightslaw.com/blog/dysgraphia-504-or-iep-for-dysgraphia/, etc) and other websites designed to present information to the population at large?
    - Do you see your child exhibit signs listed in this checklist article, or other dysgraphia articles online? Have you asked the school which of these items they observe?
    Originally Posted By: article
    1. Cramped grip, which may lead to a sore hand
    2. Difficulty spacing things out on paper or within margins (poor spatial planning)
    3. Frequent erasing
    4. Inconsistency in letter and word spacing
    5. Poor spelling, including unfinished words
    6. Missing words or letters
    7. Unusual wrist, body, or paper position while writing
    8. Difficulty with creative writing
    ... Children with dysgraphia may be able to contribute fantastic ideas verbally or in a group conversation scenario, only to find themselves challenged when it comes to the actual writing task. This is not uncommon in children with dysgraphia and is proof that just because they canít necessarily always get the ideas out onto the paper, that they are not poor thinkers or that they lack ideas.

    While this may seem a painstakingly slow and arduous task, taking this type of step wise approach based on facts may help identify some area of agreement with the school. Agreeing on the identification of the problem(s) is necessary in order to come to agreement on potential solution(s).

    ETA: Did your advocate attend the meeting? What is your advocate's thoughts/advice on what transpired and next steps to take?


    Edited by indigo (05/14/21 07:10 AM)
    Edit Reason: inquire about advocate's reflection and advice

    Top
    #248844 - 05/14/21 01:40 PM Re: Looking for advice on how to proceed... [Re: sj4iy]
    sj4iy Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/30/20
    Posts: 23
    Creative writing is the worst. He can write all day about information (especially rocks and minerals), but the moment his teacher gives him a topic to choose himself on something else...he can't do it. His mind goes blank and he's actually sat in class the entire period staring at a blank piece of paper while the other kids are doing their work. It's so bad that the teacher now gives him a topic to write about. He still struggles to write it, so my husband and I help him structure the essay so he has a plan to follow.

    I noticed this myself when doing workbooks with him. He can tell me the answer straight away, but tell him to write it down, and it's like he can't remember what the words are. I have to repeat word for word what he came up with. That was when I realized something was wrong, that it wasn't normal for a kid his age.

    Other issues he has:

    -He writes his letters and numbers from the bottom up so his letters are often uneven in size
    -His spelling is very bad and one of his worst subjects
    -He erases a lot
    -He needs lined paper or his sentences will not be straight
    -He doesn't always use capital letters or punctuation
    -He complains that it makes his brain tired
    -He sometimes flips b and d and 9 and 6, but he does not have trouble reading them out loud
    -He uses his finger for spacing, otherwise the words would not be evenly spaced

    The advocate did attend the meeting and was helpful in getting him some measurable accommodations (before they were not measurable) in writing. However, I think he needs therapy for writing, especially when it comes to putting his thoughts on paper. I see the problem only getting worse as he gets older.

    I guess what I'm really tired of is
    1. going to the school for help
    2. being told there's nothing wrong
    3. getting a private assessment to say yes there is
    4. getting only the bare minimum of help

    We're on our third cycle since he started school. We have no good private options and homeschool hurts him socially, since it is difficult for us to arrange playdates.

    Also, to answer spaghetti:

    The school didn't do small groups at all this year. Also, they only have them for reading, not math. Also, he has been wrongly placed in a lower small group based on his behavior, and not his academics...and I was only informed of this a year later. The school even used the fact that he was SUPPOSED to be in a lower reading group (although he never was) as a reason why he wasn't gifted in math and science.

    The stupidest thing I heard was that his math teacher said he couldn't be more advanced than 3rd grade math because "He had to do the multiplication facts in his head instead of knowing it rote" and "he got an question wrong the other day". I never made him memorize the multiplication tables because he's known how to multiply in preschool...why confuse him when he already knew how? He's always been able to do it in his head. And I don't get how missing a question is somehow indicative of not being advanced. I wish he had a teacher who actually cared.

    Thanks to everyone who has been helpful in this. Sorry if I'm somewhat emotional.

    Top
    Page 2 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >


    Moderator:  M-Moderator 
    Recent Posts
    Out of level/early SAT
    by Vansh
    Yesterday at 11:23 AM
    Aging
    by indigo
    12/01/22 01:33 PM
    WIAT-III outperforming WISC-V: 2e child
    by aeh
    11/30/22 08:17 PM
    The ultimate brag thread
    by Eagle Mum
    11/30/22 01:14 AM
    Q&A webinar for Davidson Young Scholars Program
    by indigo
    11/29/22 06:17 AM
    Davidson Institute Twitter