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    #247881 - 01/04/21 05:12 AM Flipped Classroom
    Irena Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/26/12
    Posts: 1729
    I am really annoyed with my sonís pre-calculus teacher. My son's school is doing a hybrid virtual model now due to the pandemic (teachers are teaching synchronously). First of all, right out of the holiday break, we are told last night that she has to quarantine because she allegedly traveled during the holidays so she will not be in school. That is fine except that she will also not be teaching virtually, either. I am confused - if she has to quarantine because she traveled, why canít she teach virtually and synchronously like other teachers who have had to quarantine have done? And like she has to do when the school goes back to all-virtual for a period of time, which happens quite a bit. She is just giving the kids videos and problems to do for the week. OK, fine. But what really annoyed me is she decides to, in the same email, ask the kids if they would like to do a ďflipped classroom" from now on. A flipped classroom model is some sort of model where the kids watch instructional videos in their own time and then during class get together and ask questions. I really donít think this virtual hybrid learning situation is an appropriate setting for something like that. I have my skepticism for that kind of model for a ninth grader even without the virtual/hybrid aspect. This is honors pre-calculus and it is a difficult subject. This virtual learning [SPAM] is hard enough for my kid. Now I understand that this is a gifted forum and the class I am talking about is honors and probably all the kids here can just teach it to themselves. My kid, despite his giftedness needs teaching and enagagment. Also, my son is young for the class - he is in ninth grade as he was accelerated. The subject is hard and she is a DIFFICULT and rigid/picky teacher. My kid, and I suspect many in the kids in the class, do need to be actually 'taught' Now, she wants the kids to spend even more hours watching instructional videos, outside of the time that they are already on virtual learning from 7:30am to 1pm (day in and day out, no break and until 2pm on Fridays), and use class time for questions?!? Seriously?!? Does she simply not want to teach? I am just getting so frustrated because every time I try to get my kid some semblance of learning in person, the school either shuts down because thereís one case too many, or his teachers have to quarantine and teach virtually for some personal reason even though my son is in school, or something else (like this) happens. I am just getting very frustrated! I just want my kid to be educated already. And it sounds to me like the 'flipped classroom' idea in the context of the hybrid/virtual pandemic situation is yet even less teaching and instruction! Enough.

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    #247895 - 01/05/21 02:41 PM Re: Flipped Classroom [Re: Irena]
    Eagle Mum Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/24/20
    Posts: 85
    Loc: Australia
    I was very much against student led problem based learning when it was introduced in my eldestís Yr 5 class as part of the middle school PYP of an IB school. Many of the other parents were too. We thought it was the stupidest idea.

    Then, DS started learning everything by himself from an early age by surfing online (claims he did not learn anything new in class from Yr 1-6 which is not entirely true but pretty close) and he has continued to work independently in maths & physics in high school. The maths syllabus has just changed and his teachers havenít fully familiarised themselves with the new material, so even though he is 15 and in Yr 10, he pretty much leads/teaches the Yr 12 class in maths extn 2 (the highest level of high school maths) so it does depend very much on the child.

    Yr 12 extension classes are also held before the schoolís official start time, so last year he attended about ten percent of the Maths extn 1 classes which start at 7.15 am, but still managed to score 98 in the HSC external exam which was the highest score for that subject in the schoolís history.

    So, my take on this is that student led learning probably doesnít suit most school kids, but for those whom it suits, itís a golden opportunity for them to just seize the baton and really run with the concept.

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    #247896 - 01/05/21 05:02 PM Re: Flipped Classroom [Re: Irena]
    Kai Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/17/09
    Posts: 611
    My experience of the flipped classroom is that students are to view videos or read material or do whatever other passive thing introduces them to the topic at hand and then during actual class time they solve problems and the teacher is there to assist.

    I was skeptical, but my son's AP Economics teacher did a flipped classroom in the way I have described and it was incredibly effective.

    My son did honors precalculus two years early. His teacher also did not teach, but he also didn't do a flipped classroom. If he had, it would have been much more effective.

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    #247898 - 01/06/21 08:11 AM Re: Flipped Classroom [Re: Eagle Mum]
    Irena Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/26/12
    Posts: 1729
    Originally Posted By: Eagle Mum
    So, my take on this is that student led learning probably doesnít suit most school kids, but for those whom it suits, itís a golden opportunity for them to just seize the baton and really run with the concept.


    I am sure. And my son liked the sound of it. But it sounds to me like it suites only a small, certain type of student. And, of course, it is those type of students that these type of teachers seem to only want to teach anyway (because they are easy, maybe?) My kid has executive function deficits and a learning disability, I highly doubt he will be among the few this type of teaching really suits. I am skeptical it will work for him and I am also skeptical this teacher would want to help it work for him. They just want to teach the neurotypical gifted kids anyway. They are not interested in doing whatever would need to be done to help such a model work for someone like my kid.

    Finally, I would be way more supportive of giving it a try if we were in a normal situation where my kid was in school in regular normal circumstances. Right now, my kid is struggling, the hybrid/virtual thing feels chaotic, and I am not sure they are actually learning anything as it is. Teacher said in her email she did the flipped classroom back in the spring when the school shut down and "some students" like it. First of the the spring was overwhelmingly a disaster and I do not want to revisit that. Secondly, "some students" is not enough for me to have faith that this is good idea. I mean, "some students" will learn just fine no matter where they are and how good or bad a curriculum or a delivery model is - that does not mean it is a good a approach. I am just suspicious that this a nicely worded, trendy phrase for "I just assign a [SPAM] ton of assignments and you see if you can figure it out and get them done and if not then come to office hours" frown

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    #247899 - 01/06/21 08:34 PM Re: Flipped Classroom [Re: Irena]
    MumOfThree Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/07/11
    Posts: 1662
    Loc: Australia
    I think, like all edu-fads that a "flipped classroom" can be done carefully, thoughtfully and incredibly well, or haphazardly and/oras an excuse for shoddiness...

    One of our children is starting at a new school shortly who a few years ago changed their whole of school model for 9-12, to what is essentially a flipped classroom model. This isn't why we chose the school, and it's also not the term they use. But what they are doing would be referred to a flipped classroom by many. So far I am overwhelmingly impressed by how organised, and rigorous their set up is. I think my child is LESS likely to get lost in the cracks, and that if we get locked down yet again, that their system will work far better for her than her previous school.

    There is much more chance of success when adopting any new model when it's every teacher, ever class, and supported by extensive (high quality) planning, training & infrastructure.

    So my concerns about your situation are not the mention of "flipped classroom" but rather: Why is the teacher not teaching if they aren't sick and on sick leave? Why are you getting the impression that they aren't interested in actually teaching? Why are they introducing a new model on their own just for one class (or for all of their classes? but not as a whole of school lead method)?

    These are crazy and stressful times. You sound stressed, understandably. Is something going on with this teacher that is reducing their capacity to be their best self? Beyond the blazingly obvious...

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    #247901 - 01/07/21 04:44 AM Re: Flipped Classroom [Re: Irena]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4360
    When reading of student-led learning, the words "autodidact" and "auto-didactic" come to mind.

    (Quickly followed by the unschooling documentary, "Self-Taught.")

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    #247902 - 01/07/21 05:02 AM Re: Flipped Classroom [Re: Irena]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4360
    It is my understanding that the idea of a "flipped classroom" emerged when considering ways in which to level the playing field. Teachers considered that:
    - some students did not do their homework,
    - some did their homework or claimed to but did not turn it in,
    - some students did not turn their homework in on time,
    - some students had siblings or parents to ask questions of at home when doing their homework.

    Therefore, to level the playing field, students would do their homework in class, under the teachers' watchful eye. Students would read the lesson material and/or watch the lesson videos at home.

    Here is a link to an old thread, circa 2013, hat tip to Bostonian: In ĎFlippedí Classrooms, a Method for Mastery

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    #247903 - 01/07/21 05:14 AM Re: Flipped Classroom [Re: MumOfThree]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4360
    Originally Posted By: MumOfThree
    Why are they introducing a new model on their own just for one class (or for all of their classes? but not as a whole of school lead method)?


    I cannot speak to this situation specifically as I have no direct knowledge of it. However I am familiar with teachers being given wide latitude to "experiment" with their students and their classrooms in order to complete assignments for their own higher education degree(s).

    For example, some students (and/or classes) would be considered a "control group" and two or more other groups of students (or classes) would be treated in different manners in order to test a hypothesis.

    Parents of students were required, at each year's enrollment, to sign a benignly worded permission slip. It was truly *not* informed consent.

    Most of the experiments dealt with measures to level the playing field and provide equal outcomes for all students. In other words, gifted pupils were not given the opportunity to learn new material or receive a grade which reflected that they had performed or achieved at a higher level.

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    #247904 - 01/07/21 05:45 AM Re: Flipped Classroom [Re: Irena]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4360
    Originally Posted By: Irena
    ... she wants the kids to spend even more hours watching instructional videos, outside of the time that they are already on virtual learning from 7:30am to 1pm (day in and day out, no break and until 2pm on Fridays), and use class time for questions?!?


    The economy was shutdown in 2020, related to the COVID-19 pandemic. Fewer people working means less income, less income means constituents pay less income taxes. Less income also means constituents have less money to spend, less sales tax collected. Fewer tax dollars collected by the government (income tax, sales tax, etc) means a smaller budget for the US Government to spend, at all levels (local, State, National). This is anticipated to translate to budget cuts across the board, including education. I believe the most recent statistic I heard was that the government was currently spending at twice the rate it was collecting taxes; this is not sustainable.

    Brace yourself. Locally, there are discussions of:
    - HUGE tax increases on the horizon.
    - School cutbacks. With fewer teacher and staff, more learning may be virtual.

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    #247907 - 01/10/21 04:17 AM Re: Flipped Classroom [Re: indigo]
    Eagle Mum Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/24/20
    Posts: 85
    Loc: Australia
    As I previously posted, I donít think a flipped classroom is a good idea for the majority of kids and agree that it might be an experiment at some schools, but I donít see how it could be a deliberate attempt to level the playing field. If the teacher doesnít prepare formal lessons and expects students to do their own research, the gifted students (not all of them of course) are the ones most likely to be able to research topics themselves. I posted previously that at my eldestís primary school, most parents (including me) found it stupid because the kids werenít learning as much as they could be if they were formally taught, but my daughter was still learning more than most of her classmates.

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