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    #244623 - 01/08/19 05:49 AM Ageing out of CTY and decreasing rigour there
    madeinuk Offline

    Registered: 03/18/13
    Posts: 1453
    Loc: NJ
    Over the years of perusing the CTY course catalogues it strikes me that the Intensive Studies have been trending towards Academic Explorations instead of genuinely offering mind expanding Humanities offerings.

    Several key classes from the traditional liberal arts curriculum, examples coming readily to mind being Ancient Greek and Latin have been dropped over the past 5 years. The classes that they offer now seem to fit the left wing brainwashing/searing minds closed approach. Frankly, I am disappointed - I see that the demographics have changed but why not offer Sanskrit which is the progenitor of Ancient Greek as well?

    Our DD has always qualified to take Humanities and STEM but even the latter do not seem to interest her- once she has done Organic Chemistry, Genetics and Neuroscience she can see nothing else that wouldn’t be covered in High School. Maybe Engineering stuff but then nothing.

    This will basically age her out at 15 - at what age did your kids age out/lose interest in their offerings and what replaced it? Internships, volunteer camps, other (if so, what?)?

    I am a natural worrier so thinking a bit ahead...

    All suggestions and illustrative experiences welcomed :-)
    Become what you are

    #244625 - 01/08/19 11:57 AM Re: Ageing out of CTY and decreasing rigour there [Re: madeinuk]
    mckinley Offline

    Registered: 07/03/18
    Posts: 114
    What's an example of a class that takes the left wing brainwashing approach?

    #244628 - 01/08/19 01:28 PM Re: Ageing out of CTY and decreasing rigour there [Re: madeinuk]
    Val Offline

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3296
    Loc: California
    I looked at the catalogue for grades 6-12 just now and I honestly don't see what you mean by left-wing brainwashing. I just saw a bunch of courses with titles like Geography and World History, Crafting the Essay, and Chinese/Spanish/Arabic Language and Culture. I recall from my own student days in the 1980s that my language classes always had an element of local culture. They had to: if you don't learn about the people who speak a language, you won't really understand how to use the language properly.

    IMO, their courses seem to focused more on skills than on knowledge for educated citizens. By this, I mean that they lack courses of no immediate practical value, but immense long-term value. These courses would provide a background of knowledge that allows a person to understand the world we live in and how/why it came to be as it is. So classes along the lines of Philosophical Ideas through History, or The Scientific Revolution and its Origins. In that respect, I agree that Greek and Latin fit that category, and it's a shame that CTY dropped them. Given how education is defined today, it wouldn't surprise me if they were dropped due to lack of interest.

    But honestly, if you want to blame a group for this situation, the so-called left-wingers wouldn't shoulder more than a small fraction of the responsibility. Look instead to individuals and groups who've created an overly competitive gig-economy society that's overly focused on perfect grades and test scores, checking boxes on CVs and transcripts, and compliance with expectations. This is then followed by too much focus on productivity and too little recognition that sometimes the slow way of working is the quick way to a result.

    How can you ever learn to think if your focus is on getting As?

    Edited by Val (01/08/19 01:35 PM)
    Edit Reason: Clarity

    #244655 - 01/16/19 02:09 AM Re: Ageing out of CTY and decreasing rigour there [Re: madeinuk]
    Cranberry Offline

    Registered: 05/29/13
    Posts: 153
    EDIT: never mind, not even worth responding/feeding.

    Edited by Cranberry (01/16/19 02:09 AM)

    #244660 - 01/17/19 08:52 PM Re: Ageing out of CTY and decreasing rigour there [Re: madeinuk]
    indigo Offline

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4959
    The classes that they offer now seem to fit the... brainwashing...approach.

    Or more specifically, The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM), defined and described by TZM in this free downloadable 325-page PDF, dated January 2014 (with an upload date of October 2017):

    Some may see similarities to UN Agenda 21:
    and the UN Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs):
    also known as the UN 2030 Agenda:
    This TED Talk introduces the Social Progress Index (SPI) to measure achievement toward the UN SDGs:
    Michael Green, We the People, September 2018.

    These agendas describe having an education component.

    Many have seen their children's formal education and enrichment learning experiences permeated by the globalism, values, and goals described in these agendas.

    Some may welcome this and others may not.
    One definition of FREE refers to things being without cost at point of service.
    One definition of FREE refers to people being self-determining, unhindered by law or regulation; having personal liberty.
    There may be an ironic balance in that getting more "free" stuff often comes with a tradeoff of being less "free" as an increasing number of life-decisions may be made for a person by an outside entity. There is a fine balance, beyond which a tipping point exists: if given a choice, which form of "free" do taxpaying US citizens prefer?

    #244667 - 01/21/19 04:12 PM Re: Ageing out of CTY and decreasing rigour there [Re: madeinuk]
    Wren Offline

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1685
    Dd has used CTY as a tool. For accelerated math and next year, to get her AP Chinese exam done, since her school doesn't offer it.

    I think the direction of education has more to do with overpopulation and lack of opportunities. I remember 35 years ago, someone's son was an expert in ancient turkish script. He loved his work but couldn't get solid work. Lack of demand for his specialty. Like when people say there should be more money for the arts. How much more? Who should we give it to? Anyone who wants to be a writer, or a sculptor? What is the criteria to be government supported as an artist? And how much do you pay them for being an artist or writer or dancer? Most people take things that give them jobs.

    #244668 - 01/21/19 10:28 PM Re: Ageing out of CTY and decreasing rigour there [Re: Wren]
    indigo Offline

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4959
    Originally Posted By: Wren
    Most people take things that give them jobs.
    This may be true at the college level, but the OP was discussing the content of enrichment opportunities offered to gifted youth. The content of those offerings may be shifting toward a focus on globalism.

    A few thoughts on education and jobs in a supply-and-demand economy.
    - A debate has been ongoing for decades: the value of liberal arts education (sometimes called classical education, or the education of free people) -vs- career-oriented education (sometimes called vocational training, or the task-oriented training traditionally given to peasants)... the value of each of these may be viewed differently depending upon one's SES.
    - In a shrinking economy, more families may be drawn to vocational training for employment in manual tasks which cannot be easily outsourced, providing a semblance of job security, financial stability, and more control over career length.
    - Technology may replace 40% of jobs in 15 years.
    - The US Bureau of Labor Statistics offers this article on the value of a liberal arts college education (2017), and this article on the percentage of jobs available at various educational levels (2014).
    - There may be a trend toward adding luxuries such as lazy rivers and concierge services at colleges, removing many varied learning opportunities. The college experience may then generate a lack of self-reliance rather than the college experience generating "internal locus of control" and a strong can-do attitude and approach to life.

    #244715 - 01/25/19 02:07 PM Re: Ageing out of CTY and decreasing rigour there [Re: madeinuk]
    Wren Offline

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1685
    Do you know how many people have ideas for a business, but they need a programmer? But a programmer can take that business and just do themselves, ie Facebook.

    Hard to prove, as they did in FB, and they only got a small portion. He even royally screwed his business partner who did the initial financing.

    DH was a physician. But was so interested in history. He read 2 texts per week on some topic he was into. Taking out reference materials. You can get into any topic, but being a physician made the money. I have read so many European classics in literature, maybe more than more literature majors. Yet I took engineering and ended on Wall st. Didn't stop me from reading 7000 pages of Proust. I think you can cover a lot of the humanities on your own when gifted.

    #244716 - 01/25/19 02:10 PM Re: Ageing out of CTY and decreasing rigour there [Re: madeinuk]
    Wren Offline

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1685
    Meant to add, that I was starting a business, not a complex technical platform, and I have done the specs, DD is doing some but I still need to hire someone for parts of it.

    DD is 14 and has gone to over 30 countries, and will have been to every continent after Antartcia in Dec. She has experienced culture, nature but focuses on math and science. Though is working on AP Chinese during 10th grade next year. She is interested in a lot of things but I have said, focus on what gives you a job.


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