Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums College "Non-Academic" Readiness for College

Agreed. Parents are wise to remain aware of the differences between job training and education. While both are necessary, job training ought not to stealthily supplant education. CS Lewis is one person who has described this... discussed here and further explained in this old post.

I think you are exactly right - aeh! You have obviously given this a lot of thought as well as having personal/family experiences. With the changes in our school district, DS will need to take one or two math courses either at the community college or another college during high school. Unfortunately, our district does not accept AoPS credit, otherwise DS could take their courses on Olympiad Geometry or Group Theory after Calculus.

My understanding is in the US for the BA/BS degree you are required to take a minimum of "general ed" requirements that include some humanities. Doesn't matter the major. Art school and engineering schools included.

On the other hand some school accept more AP credits than others. So for many students their high school AP literature and history classes count and they have to take very few in university.

My son who is started a large state university in the fall, all students take one core writing class as a freshman. Since he didn't take any humanities AP courses and he didn't pass the minimum writing level, he will have to take 3 writing courses to graduate 1-2 which can overlap with his need for one literature style course. Plus an upper division writing class in his major. He has already covered the math & science requirements. He roughly needs to cover 8-10 GE courses.

As for different course loads in early years than colleges that provide both 2 and 4 year degrees? This depends on major. My local Community Colleges (2 years) are designed to stepping stones to 4 year degrees. In order to transfer one is required to take a minimum GE requirements, plus a few classes in their intended major. Theoretically so they can walk into a university and finish in two years.

But certain degrees like those in Engineering or Art have such tight schedules that really one needs to start the major classes right away. I found in looking at university's in the US it really varies.

Nor should extreme political brainwashing and coercion through shunning and virtue signally stealthily supplant education.

A very small minority who are basically advertising their lack of college readiness are ruining the campuses and educational chances of the majority. I have a friend whose daughter is at Evergreen State and in recent years have even seen Yale pay homage in an alarmingly craven manner to these extremists.

I wish that colleges would do the right thing and expel those who cannot listen in peace to views other than their own being expressed and accept true diversity of opinion.

Well said.

Interesting that you mention Evergreen State as an example... on their website, they describe having "programs" not classes, and these programs can last several terms... a sample schedule is given. IMO, the schedule looks light. Additionally the acceptance rate is given online as 98.9% (2014), indicating it is non-selective... it may be accepting some students which other schools do not accept... those who may not appear college-ready to other educational institutions. Figures found online show enrollment as:
4,471 (2006)
3,882 (Aug 2016 - down 589 over 10 years)
3,670 (Aug 2017 - down 801 over 11 years)
There is a trend of declining enrollment... down nearly 20% in 11 years. Yet it is a relatively affordable government-funded public campus. Some may say that cost and selectivity are not factors in declining enrollment.

"Liberal Arts" means:
1- academic subjects such as literature, philosophy, mathematics, and social and physical sciences as distinct from professional and technical subjects
2- historical - the medieval trivium and quadrivium
3- liberal, as distinct from servile or mechanical (i.e., involving manual labor) and originally referring to arts and sciences considered “worthy of a free man”; later the word related to general intellectual development rather than vocational training (source of the above 3 definitions: google search online dictionary)
4- general skills (=artes) a free person (=liberals) needed to contribute meaningfully to society
5- active process of exploration rather than a passive process of absorption.
"Liberal Arts" does NOT mean politically left-leaning or progressive, although some campuses may be. Left-leaning or progressive has not traditionally meant squelching the inclusion of others, the self-expression of others, or stripping others of their rights. The Constitution protects the right "to peaceably assemble." This has traditionally referred to one minding one's own conduct (no engaging in disorderly conduct) while assembling, this has not traditionally referred to one having peace of mind while listening to a dissenting opinion during an assembly.

Diversity of opinion is key to maintaining a free society; the opposite of which is fascism, totalitarianism.

To the OP: in considering early college, parents need to know that FERPA rights transfer to students when they begin college; Parents are no longer entitled to student records. Therefore "Non-Academic" readiness for early college would include:
- self-advocacy skills, in addition to
- understanding what "Liberal Arts" means,
- understanding Constitutional rights to "free speech" and "to peaceably assemble."

Evergreen State, in particular, has a conscious history of being an "alternative" school, which eschews traditional liberal arts coursework and structures by choice. An outgrowth of 60s and early 70s cultural currents, it's ethos, is, perhaps, showing its age a bit:

http://www.evergreen.edu/about/history

I was in Canada and took the engineering courses, no English. Then I end up on Wall Street writing reports and took a night class in first year English writing. Just to have a framework of writing an essay. But I should have had that in high school. Problem is that i focused on science and math and didn't really pay attention to English in school except reading the books and plays. So it was my attitude. Though with AI, will our kids put in research and let AI write a correct report?