Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 236 guests, and 32 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    hwlvipone, allianzwisp, kimber65, crocodilegang, Ulakzn
    11,662 Registered Users
    April
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4 5
    6 7 8 9 10 11 12
    13 14 15 16 17 18 19
    20 21 22 23 24 25 26
    27 28 29 30
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 1 of 2 1 2
    #226911 01/21/16 10:06 AM
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    C
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    My DD11 took the SCAT test last week and the scores just showed up today. Her Math score meets the Grand Ceremony criteria for 7th and 8th grade, but there is no qualifying criteria for 6th graders. Anyone know if she will be invited, will the score carry to next year, or will she need to test and qualify again in the proper time-frame as a 7th grader?

    Regarding the Davidson program - any suggestion on which of the qualifying tests would be "better" for someone strong on the math side (and about 75th %ile on the CTY/SCAT Verbal)?

    Did Davidson change their criteria? She had qualifying Explore scores a couple of years ago, but didn't they used to require 2 of 3 items - Explore, plus either IQ test or submitted/written samples of achievement? She took the SB5 back in kindergarten, but didn't meet their criteria at the time.

    Joined: Feb 2015
    Posts: 266
    L
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    L
    Joined: Feb 2015
    Posts: 266
    DYS used to require scores from both/each of what is now option one or two. Now it's just one option, with different amounts of scores needed for different tests (one of this, two or three of that -- those values changed). If the qualifying EXPLORE results are within two years of the application, she could still use them. Or sign up to take it in Feb, last chance. :-)

    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 1,390
    E
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    E
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 1,390
    What are the Grand Ceremony criteria? For that matter, what is the Grand Ceremony? DD11 also just took the SCAT as a 6th grader. She is a DYS, and she got some good-looking scores to my ignorant eye, but I don't know a lot about CTY nowadays. (I was a student/TA at PSAP at ASU before it was absorbed by CTY, and I TA'd and taught math for them for two years in Lancaster, PA, but I've lost touch with the organization.)

    Last edited by ElizabethN; 01/22/16 03:58 PM. Reason: scores redacted
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 249
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 249
    I think Grand Ceremony is for 7th and 8th graders only for both JHU-CTY and Duke TIP. My DD got 3 perfect scores on EXPLORE but no Grand Ceremony invite for Duke TIP.


    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    C
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    Originally Posted by ElizabethN
    What are the Grand Ceremony criteria?

    Listed at http://cty.jhu.edu/talent/testing/after.html#Grand

    For 7th/8th grade it's SAT Math 700/750 or SCAT 508/511. For 7th/8th that about 98-99th %-ile among the already gifted group that takes the SCAT through CTY.

    I think the 2 year date on her EXPLORE may have just lapsed, but I'll check.

    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,453
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,453
    I think that the 'scaled' scores factor in the grade so a 499 as a sixth grader is not the same as a 499 as a seventh grader. Could be wrong there. My DD11 took it as a fifth grader last year and got a 477v/499q which I think only qualifies her for the vanilla awards ceremony this Spring.


    Become what you are
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    C
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    Scores differ between the tests (Elementary, Intermediate, Advanced), but 6th/7th/8th all take the same Advanced test, so scoring scales are the same. It's similar to 10th graders taking the PSAT and 11th graders taking the SAT not having directly comparable scores, but 11th graders and 12th graders (and 7th graders) taking the SAT all being on the same scoring.


    Reported ercentiles will differ, as they are compared to different above-grade cohorts, but the raw/scaled scores are the same.

    Since 5th and 6th graders take different tests, those scores aren't directly comparable. So 499 in 5th and 499 in 6th aren't the same, but 499 in 6th, 7th, 8th are the same (assuming the test version was per JH recommendations)

    explained here: http://cty.jhu.edu/talent/testing/about/scat.html - Scoring and Timing

    I've emailed JH to get an answer to my original question.

    Last edited by Cranberry; 01/21/16 09:17 PM.
    Joined: Oct 2015
    Posts: 14
    3
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    3
    Joined: Oct 2015
    Posts: 14
    What percentile are the award recipients? Any estimates compared to the average population and gifted kids?

    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 1,432
    Q
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Q
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 1,432
    Unless they change their criteria this year your DD will not be invited to the Grand Ceremony and scores do not carry to subsequent year for award purposes.

    The Grand Ceremony is only for 7th and 8th graders who score at or above the requisite levels on SAT, ACT, SCAT or STB. The only exception is for younger participants who score high enough for SET (Study of Exceptional Talent) by scoring at least 700 on SAT Math or SAT CR.

    DYS changed their criteria last summer. On the one hand it is easier because you only need one set of scores, either IQ or ability/achievement. On the other hand, it is harder to qualify through Explore and SAT now because they raised the minimum scores on the Explore and you need the composite plus either Math or CR on the SAT.


    Last edited by Quantum2003; 01/21/16 11:49 PM.
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,453
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,453
    Thanks - I stand corrected.


    Become what you are
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    C
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    Originally Posted by Quantum2003
    Unless they change their criteria this year your DD will not be invited to the Grand Ceremony and scores do not carry to subsequent year for award purposes.

    Thanks. That's what I suspected, but it was worth a shot. If JH responds with something different, I'll post for future reference.

    I dug up her Explore test scores and she only met 2 of the 3 Explore-specific criteria, and I knew she had met them before. I guess that's a good thing, as it's 1 month past the 2 year cut-off and I would have been seriously bummed if she had met the new cutoffs and I missed the dates.

    Sounds like either another round of SCAT later this year, or the SAT next January. Just about everyone accepts the SAT (CTY/SET, Duke, Davidson), so we'll probably look to that.

    Last edited by Cranberry; 01/22/16 07:41 AM.
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,453
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 1,453
    Would this the pre 94 SAT, the post 94 SAT ( analogies section taken out ) that even MENSA will not accept or the even dumber new one?

    I ask because I am interested in encouraging my DD to take it next year in 7th grade and am wrestling with the idea because I wonder if it has been dumbed down to the point of worthlessness these days with its lowered ceiling.

    I am considering the ACT now but would like to see if the new SAT has any advocates...


    Become what you are
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    C
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    It would be rather difficult for our 8-14 year-old kids to be taking the pre-1994 SAT. I can't comment on the "even dumber" new one as it's yet to actually be used - the final session for the old one is scheduled for tomorrow, with make-ups going into February.

    All of these programs are based on percentiles/standard deviations, so the scoring ranges, ceilings, etc, are somewhat irrelevant. They could make it very hard, and the 98% cut-off could move from 700 to 500, but you'd get the same kids qualifying.

    From the PSAT, practice tests, and input from most of the test-prep companies, the new SAT is pretty much identical to the ACT, so it doesn't seem to matter.

    If you want to take a test soon, the ACT will get results quicker - College Board is waiting until the March and May tests are scored before establishing their scoring scale and publishing results. So you won't get any results, won't know whether the various cutoffs for admission are met, and won't even know what the cutoffs for admissions are for the SAT for quite some time.

    JH SET, Duke RIT, Davidson, etc., have all said (iirc) that qualifying scores for the new SAT won't be available until the fall, at the earliest. ACT cutoffs exist today and won't change.

    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 1,432
    Q
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Q
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 1,432
    Originally Posted by madeinuk
    Would this the pre 94 SAT, the post 94 SAT ( analogies section taken out ) that even MENSA will not accept or the even dumber new one?

    I ask because I am interested in encouraging my DD to take it next year in 7th grade and am wrestling with the idea because I wonder if it has been dumbed down to the point of worthlessness these days with its lowered ceiling.

    I am considering the ACT now but would like to see if the new SAT has any advocates...

    My twins are participating in the College Board study comparing the current and new SAT for younger (talent search) kids so I will have a more informed opinion to share in a few months. For now, I am just speculating based on a limited review, but I will say this much, unless or even if your DD is at a "hard ceiling" (100% correct) situation with the current SAT, I doubt that the new SAT will be "dumb down" for her. For example, on the current SAT, DS12 consistently scores 790-800 on the Math sections of College Board practice tests, but I don't know whether he will be able to score as highly on the new SAT. Keep in mind that the new SAT actually covers some more advance topics than the current SAT so younger kids can easily miss 1 or more questions. Also, unlike the current SAT, there is a "no calculator" section on the new SAT so calculation errors may be more prevalent. DS hasn't tried the math section on the new SAT practice tests but he has tried one CR section and his score was at the low end of his range although he is not at the ceiling for CR so his practice test scores have a 100+ point spread. I expect DS will have a lower CR score on the new SAT also because the new CR score incorporates the language subscore. In other words, I think it will be harder for most talent search kids to qualify for SET unless they switch to using the CR subscore (scale to 40) rather than the CR score (scale to 800 based on CR plus Language subscores). Of course, some GT kids are stronger with language mechanics than reading comprehension but the more common pattern seem to be higher CR than Writing/Language scores.

    The new SAT will be like the ACT in that it is more of an achievement test versus the current SAT, which is somewhat of an ability test.

    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    C
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    Originally Posted by Cranberry
    Thanks. That's what I suspected, but it was worth a shot. If JH responds with something different, I'll post for future reference.

    Follow up, as promised - she will be invited to the Grand Ceremony in October as a 6th grader meeting the 7th/8th grade score requirements for the SCAT test.

    Last edited by Cranberry; 03/16/16 08:02 AM.
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 675
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 675
    To piggyback on this thread - - - DS has been invited to the regular spring awards ceremony for a SCAT I'd almost forgotten he wrote (grade 5, done over a year ago). I'm trying to figure out if there is a good reason to go? I'm not seeing any events or activities (or even university tours) attached to this at all, just the one-hour awards ceremony itself. Old threads suggest it's pretty missable.

    Has anyone been before/ plan to go this year, and is there more to it that would make it worthwhile?

    Joined: Mar 2012
    Posts: 639
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Mar 2012
    Posts: 639
    Originally Posted by Platypus101
    To piggyback on this thread - - - DS has been invited to the regular spring awards ceremony for a SCAT I'd almost forgotten he wrote (grade 5, done over a year ago). I'm trying to figure out if there is a good reason to go? I'm not seeing any events or activities (or even university tours) attached to this at all, just the one-hour awards ceremony itself. Old threads suggest it's pretty missable.

    Has anyone been before/ plan to go this year, and is there more to it that would make it worthwhile?
    We went last year and will go again this year because it is close to where we live and DS loves to collect the pins that they hand out at the ceremony. It is an entirely missable event if you are busy. There are no tours or any other special events associated with it for this year. Usually, there is a motivational speech given before the event by a volunteer who runs the ceremony. We use it as an opportunity to take DS out for lunch as an appreciation for his efforts at school and we walk around the college campus and return home. So, if you have better things to do on that day, you would not have missed much by skipping it smile

    It was eye opening for DS to go there and see the hundreds of kids participating in the awards ceremony. For DS, who was the youngest last year, it was a good experience to see that there were so many motivated youngsters and he met a few kids that he already knew there and he was happy that they could go to future CTY camps together.

    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 675
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 675
    Thanks Ashley! I've read such great stories of Davidson get togethers, I wouldn't want DS to miss a chance to discover and interact with a world of kids like himself (but Canadians aren't eligible for Davidson, alas). The CTY would be major travel for us, and DS is pretty anti-competitive/ anti-spotlight, so an awards ceremony alone is not much of a draw for him. He could certainly use some real time with a group of bright and motivated youngsters, though!

    Joined: Mar 2012
    Posts: 639
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Mar 2012
    Posts: 639
    Originally Posted by Platypus101
    He could certainly use some real time with a group of bright and motivated youngsters, though!
    This is not the event for such a meet up. DS recognized a few kids from his other activities like chess club, ensemble etc standing in the lobby outside and talked to them. The award ceremony itself consisted of a long line of kids (few hundreds) walking on stage, posing with the pin that they handed out (the certificate was mailed home to everyone) for 30 seconds and walking off. So, I am not sure if there was any worth to it. Many families brought grandparents and cousins to the event and had a lot of fun photographing the event.

    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    C
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 153
    A quick follow-up for future reference.

    We attended our regional presentation this weekend. I'd say that if you have a bit of free time, and it's close, it's worth attending, but not worth a trip or missing something else.

    We checked into the room where the ceremony was being held and had a seat. There was a welcome from the facility holding the meeting, a person delivering a 10 minutes talk, probably standardized across all sessions, about the founder of JH, and why gifted education is important, how proud the kids should be, congratulations, etc. Each then went up to receive a pin/get a handshake, only 25 at our session. Cookies and punch in the back afterwards. The ceremony was over in 25 minutes, we were out in 45.

    The presenter posed for pictures in front of the JH banner with students who wanted a better picture than just walking across the stage - to go along with the templated press release for local papers, I assume. We saw one other student from our school district, and chatted for a few minutes.

    I think recognition and words of encouragement are positive, but it's not a networking event or anything extremely valuable.

    Page 1 of 2 1 2

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Grade Acceleration K-1-2
    by Cindi - 04/27/25 07:53 PM
    School options - need advice!
    by Eagle Mum - 04/23/25 03:20 PM
    What do I ask for to support my kids?
    by Cindi - 04/23/25 12:26 AM
    Dysgraphia Remediation?
    by millersb02 - 04/09/25 06:31 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5