Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Remind Me of 2E Signs in Test Scores

My son is going to be given the WISC-V by a school psychologist soon as part of the process of getting evaluated for ADHD. I've also suspected that he's a stealth dyslexic, but he's been too young for the school district to care and we don't have the money for private testing.

When he was younger, he was given the DAS-II, and those results showed a slightly greater than 2 standard deviations between verbal and visual spatial ability (visual spatial was higher). Of course, the scores were high enough that he wouldn't qualify for services, so this spread didn't bother anyone but me.

While there's always the chance that the WISC scores will come out even, I'd love to be able to look at the report with an instant understanding of a sign that there might be issues. Could someone give me a refresher on this?

I asked something somewhat similar recently and I don't think you can tell just from the WISC scores. I have two kids - one is definitely 2e and the other one is just gifted (the post I've linked stems from me overreacting thinking that she might have a 2nd e, I've since been talked off the ledge). They both have high GAI's but low processing speed (the 2e kid has a bigger spread (+4SD) but even my single e kid has a 2SD spread. They both have average working memory. Their school performance is polar opposite though.

Anyway, here's the thread -
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/225154/2e_diagnosis.html#Post225154

I'm sure the usual experts will also chime in with info more specific to your case. I'm not at all familiar with the DAS-II.

lms, what makes you suspect he is dyslexic? A low incidence cognitive profile doesn't, a priori, mean a learning challenge, especially in the right-most tail of the curve, though it can. And, on the flip side, there are plenty of learners with beautifully even cognitive profiles for whom other testing (achievement, executive function) reveals learning differences.

What specific behaviors or performance anomalies give rise to your suspicions? It might be important to request that these areas be assessed in the upcoming school evaluation, if they have not already been included.

DD has ADHD and her processing speed score was 94 but GAI was 150. In most kids a 94 wouldn't be a big cause of concern, but it's the gap that seems significant. People in the schools have had a big problem understanding this (that a score can be "average" but still indicate a problem with a gifted student). A lot of kids with ADHD will also have lower working memories, but that wasn't really the case with DD. She did however later on have some other testing done that involved memory and her scores were a lot lower. Not below average but a lot lower than working memory on the WISC.

She seems to do well with repeated information right away, but not repeating things after a delay.

DS had a big gap between PRI And VCI on the WISC that was something like 27 points (PRI being higher) but the neuropsych just kind of wrote it off as VCI being a relative weakness. Honestly, I think that if he was tested again his VCI would be higher now because he had some speech/lang. delays.

My suspicions started early on when I'd ask seemingly innocent questions in some parenting groups and several people would reply "That was actually an early sign of dyslexia in my child." For instance, I do remember asking, "My 5 year old doesn't understand rhyming at all. Even if I give him multiple examples of rhyming words and ask for another one, he'll still get it wrong. What age do kids normally know how to rhyme?" and I got lots of dyslexic responses to that. There were probably 5 other questions like that one I've asked over the years and got responses of it being an early sign of dyslexia.

Despite knowing the sounds of the letters for several years, it wasn't until I started working with him using a reading program intended for dyslexics and struggling readers that reading started to catch on. But then he started to understand sight words and how to put them together...

It's also quite obvious to me that he reads pretty much exclusively through sight words. He might skip over words or say them incorrectly. If he doesn't know a word, he won't try to figure it out. He really resists reading any book out loud if I haven't read it to him first (like he's storing the potential words he might not know?).

And then from reading books about dyslexia, I've realized other things, like talking around words when he can't quickly recall the word he wants ("the color of our car" instead of "white") and difficulty understanding time and schedules.

I asked the school district about evaluating him for dyslexia awhile ago, but they said not until 3rd grade. He's 2nd now, and this evaluation isn't even about the dyslexia, but I thought that there might be something that would indicate it. ADHD is what the evaluation is for (I was recently diagnosed with ADD myself.), and I was also curious to know if there would be something in that as well. I believe that they're also going to do an achievement test, such as the W-J. So maybe it's in the combination of those that we'll see something?

(And I know that I'll get explanations about results. I just like to know what to expect first. That's the gifted in me. )

lms, you definitely sound like you have reason to check deeper into dyslexia and/ or something else getting in the way of automaticity in reading and retrieval. It's really unfortunate your school won't assess until third grade; while it's common to wait, the evidence is nonetheless clear that dyslexia can and should be diagnosed and remediated sooner. If there is anything whatsoever to keep pushing on, do keep pushing. In the meantime, the most important thing for him is a proper (Orton-Gillingham based) reading program, so it's awesome that you're already doing that yourself.

As for the testing that's been scheduled, it's possible that the WISC and WIAT will show nothing "below average" with a gifted dyslexic, especially when still in grade 2. But if they do a full set of WIAT reading and writing subtests, it is likely that you will see a pattern of dropping scores as you move from broader skills (like comprehension, which allows many more ways to compensate) to more specific underlying skills (like nonsense words, which are harder to fake).

My DD, tested at that age, was a "perfectly normal" 50th percentile for WIAT comprehension - but that's 2 SDs lower than her WISC verbal comprehension, tested orally. Her scores continued to drop as context was stripped away, so word reading was 16th and nonsense words even lower. Of all her testing (WISC, WIAT, WRAML (memory) and CTOPP (phonological)), the only scores that were officially below "average" (i.e. less than 16th) were three WIAT subtests: nonsense words, spelling and sentence generation. However, the pattern was consistent in all areas of testing: high scores when oral, medium scores with context/ compensation, and low scores when isolated skills were required.

Something to point out to your teachers: a gifted dyslexic will do far, far better with a complex, wordy text than with "easy", isolated words. Teachers assume that if they can do the hard stuff, of course they can do the easy stuff - but they never check.

Yup. That's a key phonological processing skill.
Also probably a PP issue (blending). Have you continued with the program? It's also important with kids who memorize sight vocabulary as their go-to strategy -not- to read unknown words for them while they are reading, as they have precious few natural opportunities to practice decoding skills as it is. See below.
Huge red flag for dyslexia.
Yes, often found in dyslexics, but strictly, it's more because of the learners who have mixed oral and written language disabilities, so this is more indicative of an expressive language disorder in addition to possible dyslexia. And yes, it is possible for a child to score high on VCI (or VC in the case of the DAS-II), and still have an expressive language disorder.
Aargh! This drives me nuts, as a professional, when it's known that a) earlier remediation improves the chances of altering the brain in dyslexics to a more efficient, non-dyslexic reading pattern; and b) it doesn't matter whether a child is a "true" dyslexic, explicit instruction in phonological processing and phonics (such as in OG) has a long and excellent track record for remediating reading delays in the vast majority of students who are below grade level in reading during the primary years.
That would be a good start. Given what you've described above, I would consider testing for phonological processing, and speech and language. Plus, ADHD and CAPD are often difficult to tease apart, so in conjunction with s/l, I'd also consider evaluation for auditory processing (usually easiest with a referral from your pedie, and conducted at a hospital).
No need to explain yourself!

Thank you. There's a lot going on right now (he just entered school mid-year after being homeschooled, which is a whole different story, but I am sort of expecting the "He's totally average. You're being weird." speech.

While the testing process is getting started for ADHD, I did mention my dyslexic suspicions in the paperwork and I'm just waiting to see what comes of all of this. More data is good.