Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Immature or something else?

Last week during parent teacher conference, DS7 2nd grade teacher said she and his reading teacher (he is not formally accelerated, but does go to a 3rd grade class most of the time for reading instruction)both see that he is immature. She said he makes noises and dances around sometimes when he is supposed to be doing work. She suggested the immaturity was due to the fact that he is an only child and doesn't get to spend enough time with other kids. She suggested we involve him in more activities with other kids.

He goes to Sunday School and junior church each week, a children's Bible club meeting once a week, Saturday morning enrichment classes, and he plays spring and fall soccer. This is in addition to playing with neighborhood kids.

I did not rebut her at the time, mostly because I couldn't think of a good rebuttal. (I have never been good at thinking on my feet!) Later, on the way home, I thought that maybe what they are seeing is acting out due to boredom.

I want to follow up with the teacher because she also made a veiled reference to him maybe not being allowed in the GT pullout program next year because of his "immaturity". I know he is not being challenged by the 2nd grade curriculum and I know he really needs the be in the GT program next year.

Can any of you give me some good resources I can use to back up my case when rebutting the teacher's accusation?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Based on all of those facts, I would seek out an independent advocate. I think you might find info. about their role on the Hoagies website. You are picking up all of these cues and clues from the school and we could share / confirm similar examples of such treatment and it wastes time and energy. You deserve to be treated with respect and the families are the customers.

While an independent advocate can be a great resource for those who can afford it, often parents are their children's best advocates. There are several resources with advocacy tips in this recent post. This might be your best path toward establishing your child's "need" for advanced academics.

It seems your child had a formal eval from which a GAI score was posted earlier... often a GAI is indicative of slower processing speed and/or lower working memory, which could possibly be impacting your child. Have you checked with the person who evaluated your child to inquire whether his/her interpretation of the assessment results might reveal anything which the teacher could be painting with a broad brush as "immaturity"?

Also, have you asked your child for input as to how he sees the reading time? For example, if he is pulled out alone, does he feel uncomfortable in being isolated? Are there specific things which he can articulate which are "triggers" for the described behavior?

The best resource available is: you.

You have observed your DS in a variety of environments. Some of them (the church-related ones) offer a direct parallel with school. How is that going? What kind of behavior do you see? How do your observations compare to what your teacher reports?

Depending on that, your counter-argument might be something like this:

"We do not see the kind of behavior you describe in similar situations. The problem is specific to school. We believe this is due to lack of challenge and engagement, which leads to boredom, and acting out. The GT pull-out should be beneficial in addressing this problem."

Or:

"Yes, we see DS behave this way in certain, similar situations, generally due to boredom. We know that he's not being challenged with his current curriculum, which explains why he's experiencing boredom in your class. The GT pull-out should be beneficial in addressing this problem."

Depending on whether your state offers any guarantees to gifted children via legislation, you could also add:

"My DS has a right to an education that is appropriate for his cognitive abilities. We do not accept any perceptions of 'immaturity' as sufficient reason to deny him access to that."

I hope it helps to share personal experiences; I received unsolicited comments my whole life. First of all, you hope that everyone is allowed to have their own opinion; I never understand people who think they have to comment on you. It can come with being a very, nice person, so maybe people take advantage of that personality. Even in meetings for the gifted families, the gifted people are all very polite and listening respectfully, meanwhile, we might be listening to someone who has no first-handed experience with giftedness themselves and you are wondering why you are spending an hour listening to their information. Please do not let them mislabel your wonderful child. We might be a small percentage of the population; we might have great advantages academically, but we don't have to be made to feel as if our opinions should categorically be disregarded, because we are not the school teacher, etc. It makes me feel for the scientists, who try to help people with their various problems that might be able to be solved through science, but it seems like no one is listening.

A high intellectual profile (or intellectual advantage) does not necessarily equate to academic advantage.

I can only speak from my truth - it has been a huge advantage always and it has occurred to me that even though none of our four parents have college degrees, they had a high intelligence and it definitely helped them in their jobs to make a better living than you would expect.

Back to the original post, it is great that you are thinking it through and preparing for the next meeting. We don't post here all year long. Right now I am thinking about next steps and posting helps me discover how I really feel. We share also to save others our mistakes, as in I wish someone had warned us how to navigate. Even if a teacher or two have first-hand experience with giftedness, somehow, in their role as teacher they might not have the time / energy to make sure your child's needs are met.

Keep feeling out the town you are in. Some places might feel safer to speak about IQ. But, if you are in an area where you know it is controversial, I can attest that some really strong parent advocates (seems like the parents working on this issue from decades ago, paving the way) have been stigmatized and since now there is social media, we would be more understated. All the best. Know there are space limits, but if I could telepath what I was thinking it would be much longer. Good luck. We'll probably be back in the fall.

Do you see similar behavior in other contexts? Or is it only at school?

I would not ignore the possibility of some kind of 2E issue without investigating further. But if the problems are seen in only one context, I'd try to solve it in that particular context.

Perhaps you could suggest/ provide some activities you think are at an appropriate level, and ask them (or preferably a neutral party!) to observe whether the behaviour changes when he is better engaged?

Parents may wish to consider carefully whether to utilize the words boredom or bored when advocating for their child as these words tend to have a polarizing and adversarial effect. In this recent thread, several members discuss reasons to not use the word "bored" when advocating.

Parents may also wish to summarize the meeting in writing, including any points of agreement, and place their observations in that written summary. You may have seen this elsewhere on the forums, but there are lists of crowd-sourced ideas on preparing for a meeting. Standard tips for meeting prep include:
- Research state laws and the school or district policies and practices. This information is often found online. You may wish to print and put this in an advocacy ring binder to refer to over the years as the laws and policies/practices may change over time.
- Have any test results and other pertinent facts available to share (milestones, reading lists, other accomplishments/achievements)
- It is good to have them speak first. If asked to speak first, you may simply wish to thank everyone for attending and summarize that you are all here to share information and ideas about how to best meet your child's educational needs... and that you would like to hear from them.
- Agenda
- Know who is in the meeting, and their role(s)
- Stay calm
- Know what you are asking for
- TAKE NOTES including 5Ws (Who-What-Where-When-Why-How) of differentiation, so you can summarize in an e-mail afterward [Some families announce they plan to record the meeting and then do so, rather than taking notes.]
- Use active listening (rephrase what has been said, and put it in a question form) to clarify understanding
- Be open to receiving the school's data/observations.
- Listen to any proposals they may make, ask appropriate probing questions, such as how a proposal may work, how the proposal may help your child, the schedule/frequency of service delivery, etc
- Do not be forced to make a decision if you need time
- Summarize next steps & time frames, and/or need for a follow-up meeting
- Thank everyone for their time & interest
- After the meeting, write a summary (points of agreement, etc) and share it, possibly by e-mail

This may be a good time to begin a dated advocacy journal of whom you spoke with, and a brief summary of each contact.