Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional maladaptive daydreaming?

I think this is what is going on with my DS10 (in addition to possible Tourettes plus OCD)

Does anyone have a kid that does this? I don't mean to just daydream a lot, I mean daydreams on steroids with pacing, jumping, facial expressions, laughing etc. and very very detailed, triggered by films, tv, books etc.

He has self described as being in this state in his classroom at school 70% of the time - meaning he is aware of what is going on in the class for only 30% of the time but is still pulling proficient and advanced scores.. which would explain why he is not working above grade level...

He is in this state at home probably at least 50% of the time. Since he had no other ADD symptoms I didn't know what was going on... now that I know he is lost in a dream I can see what is happening.

Does anyone else have a kid doing this?

DS7 has always paced/skipped while daydreaming. He'll get going in a circuit around an empty area or just go back and forth and get lost in his own head a while.

He will go a few days without doing it if the situation isn't right or he's occupied with reality. We went on vacation with my brothers family and he was so busy playing with his cousins he didn't do it all week.

He does seem to enjoy it. It is a "thing" to do for him. Like reading, watching TV, playing with toys or riding his bike, he'll announce that he is going to go think.

I was wondering if it might be channelled into exercise at some point. Maybe running, swimming or cycling? I think running at a track or swimming laps would be safest because he is so in his head, I think he'd be dangerous in traffic.

Uh oh. Uh, yes. This is totally my kid. He calls his "creative shocks" - many times he will come "write" (i.e., dictate or type) the resulting stories. But yes he does this. To me, I think it looks very, very much like Stereotypic Movement Disorder. It's pretty much my kid to a T. I have posted about it here before.

I went to link the thread I started on it and I saw you had posted there recently. Linking it again for your convenience: http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....typic_Movement_Disorder_.html#Post194825
Be sure to take a look at the article I link there!

My son tells me ( and I not sure how true it is or how accurate his perception is) that he doesn't do it in school as much anymore. He says it's combination of his being more busy and engaged and also he is purposely trying to be more private about it since it "looks weird."

Oh and in order to get our son out of his "dream" - we would say "Okay, DS, pause it... pause your story for later we got to go!" At one time, we were even saying "beep!" to indicate that we had paused his "movie" LOL.

I hate getting too personal on here but totally used to do it too ( I did it in a different way than my son and I hid it better than he but it was essentially the same thing). So I think it may have a genetic component. My father used to pace constantly and be in his own world while pacing around repetitively. I remember doing it as far back as I can remember, but it only got "bad" when I was anxious and stressed. In my teen years, I had so much trauma and crazy bad home stuff happening I couldn't do anything but "maladapaptive daydreaming." It was actually very debilitating. But I got out of the situation eventually (over 4 years) and recovered.... Obviously I am fine now and don't do it at all now. So I guess one can also grow out of it to a certain extent?

Irena I don't think it is stereotypic movement disorder because he paces-also onset is wrong he started later. SMD does not seem to be associated with OCD whereas MD is. My DS is showing OC and anxiety and that's why I'm leaning towards MD. But there are a lot of similarities and they might turn out to be the same or similar conditions.

I just saw your last post-I think it is genetic although I didn't have it. And I do t hink you can grow out of it too -thanks for answering.

I started a similar thread about tantrums resulting from this. My DD is on a swim team and swims 4-5 hours a week. I think she daydreams while swimming, though. I insisted she play Settlers of Catan with me last night, rather than reading or daydreaming. It helped, I think.

I may find a hands-on kit for her to do with DH while I'm at work so that she's problem solving instead of day dreaming. iDK

In MD exercise seems to be important to "improving" the daydreaming... some adults who do this run, some pace, some skip- some shake something in their hand like a pen, etc.

I spent a lot of time on the internet reading self reporting maladaptive daydreamers's experiences. That's why I'm not sure about the SMD because the onset of MD appears to be around 6 or 7, but SMD is usually very early on (from birth to 3 years old). I only noticed him doing this at about the same time he started the tics (about 6 or 7)

Also the adults and teens who have MD describe it as almost being addictive and some are searching for answers on how to stop it. In both SMD and MDD you can apparently stop the dream when you want to, but you enjoy it and don't want to. In both tv can be a trigger (which is what is triggering my DS).

I did read the whole thing that Irena posted about SMD which was really *incredibly* helpful (it was the first thing that made sense to me), but then I called John Hopkins and spoke to someone involved in the SMD studies there and the onset didn't really fit, plus I looked at a lot of youtube videos and most of the kids with SMD were not pacing they had flapping or hand movements- nothing that looked like what my kid is doing. When I read both descriptions MD seems to fit better. He does it anytime he is bored etc. For instance, I asked if he does it when he plays games with his friends at school, and he said only when he is out of the game. He has done it (with pacing in a circle) in class- the teacher says he just catches his eye and he sits back down. However my son tells me the teacher doesn't know how *much* daydreaming he is doing..so I assume that he is not having to pace every time he daydreams (which also seems separate from SMD). One seems to be just a neurological condition, and the other seems to possibly be related to anxiety / OCD since (on the internet anecdotally - meaning take it with a grain of salt) it has been treatable to some extent with SSRIs.The person at John Hopkins said only therapy but not meds were effective on SMD. The person who did the more recent study on MD using self reported information from people posted this here https://www.scribd.com/doc/20700187/Daydreamers-Anonymous-Prelim-Findings. I think she also has posted her study on Scribd but I have to purchase it to read it (which is next).

But again they may be the same condition or similar conditions. They are remarkably similar.

Oh and if we look at this through the gifted filter, we get imaginational overexcitabilites...

In addition, I just joined a yahoo group for MD, and one of their polls is were you ever identified as gifted. 84% of the people taking the poll said yes....

For years now one of my son's favorite leisure/destress activities has been to twirl a stick while daydreaming. I've always considered it fairly harmless, although antisocial. He is off in a fantasy dream world, and he twirls a big stick while circling, pacing on the lawn. He is a teenager and has become fairly self conscious about this activity and has cut back a lot. Although I'm not sure this has helped because I think it helps his stress level.

But I've never heard of him doing this overly at school, instead he tends to doodle a lot. He has learned when the time & place is for this activity. Although perhaps it's part of his issues with school. He has recently been tested and is not ADHD but is borderline ASD. He is underperforming and tends to get bored a lot in class and not turn things in.

I do this now - I have visceral reactions to my daydreams, I spend a lot of time planning them and banking them up for when DH goes out of town and I can have mental time to myself.
I make myself cry, laugh out loud, pace, gesticulate etc. Fortunately I have control over when and where I do this but I find it to be the most important processing mechanism I have - I have found by analysing my daydreams I've been able to get insight into problems in my life and solve them.

I think something that helps is scheduling daydreaming and if the child is still young enough having a chat about the content afterwards (or encourage a diary later).

Ahhh, yes, my DS seem to start his "creative shocks" very early - at around 3... definitely had been doing it well before 6 years old. His does not seem all that related to his anxiety or anything. In fact the happier and more relaxed he is the more they occur.

Huh! Fascinating!

DS10 always seems happy when he does it too- the problem isn't if you do it necessarily, only if it becomes addictive- which appears to be happening with my son.

I just talked to someone over at John Hopkins again (she is involved with the SMD studies) and she says they have a lot of jumpers/pacers, so now I am wondering if DS10 has SMD, and the adults who have maladaptive daydreaming are just people who have SMD but haven't been able to learn to control it/live with it for whatever reason. I spoke to my brother and he confirmed that he has either SMD or MD but he says it became a great asset as an adult because he was able to design things in his head without having to use paper etc. He does still pace, etc.

The person at John Hopkins said that she knew a lot of adults who had it and have been fine. She did say she was not familiar with MD though.

But it's possible it could be the same condition, just different names.

Hi LAF, just checking in to see how this all is going for you and your child. Wondering if you found out anything new, use any techniques or medicines, etc.

Hi Irena - I did start him on an SSRI for his anxiety and it did reduce the pacing, and it has reduced his OCD symptoms (checking) quite a bit. When I talked to the psych he seemed to think that MD was a symptom and not an actual thing and that's all he said. He also pointed out that MD is something that adults have, and he said children change and develop and may not end up with things adults end up with, and he basically said he would help me figure it out, and that the Internet had a lot of things that may or may not be correct and I would make myself crazy that way (gee, do you think? ;))

DS is still very creative, and seems happier. I think he very likely has tourettes plus, but we are still searching for a definitive answer.

Thanks for checking in!

LAF, my son also has TS (we're starting to see some OCD behaviors, so likely TS+). He also daydreams with pacing, sounds, facial expressions, etc. When he's at home, he tends to verbalize what he's thinking about - he's almost always creating video games in his head.

If you'd ever like to chat or need some support, feel free to message me.

Hi Diamondblue...thanks so much, I just PMed you. Strangely enough, I just got on the board because I was going to see if anyone else on the board had a kid that had TS+ or chronic tic with comorbidities...

I'm not often known for having great timing, so it's a nice feeling for once! I sent you a PM back and I look forward to chatting. Have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Omg YESSSS yup uh-huh (one sec... wait, what? sorry - I was somewhere else for a second)

DS and I BOTH are guilty as charged. DS paces, climbs, walks in circles, spins and hops around, and I make facial expressions and talk to myself, and sometimes pace.

Good luck stopping it. It's just too much fun. There isn't much that reality can do to compete with what our imaginations can bring to life.

I am a maladaptive daydreamer. School turned me into one, my head bing the most interesting place I could flee into. I would run around for hours in front of our hose and bounce a ball if the wall. Must have driven the neighbours crazy.

I'm one too.

When I read a biography of Charlotte Brontë, I got the strong impression that she and her siblings were too, from the descriptions of how intense they were about their invented worlds. I guess we're in good company!

Me too. Though it may have started before school. It can be a problem as I often prefer it to socializing. But then again maybe I do it because I don't like socializing.

My husband hates it when I do it in front of him. He yells at me to come back, be with him and the kids. He used to be a daydreamer himself, but has managed to channel it all into action. Lucky him.

This is all so interesting! My DS10 has always done something similar. He is an incredibly creative kid, and tends to leap around (he jerks his hands up over his head when he does this, and often points his head downward sort of... its the same movement most times - but its not rhythmic at all... does that rule things out for this?) and make odd mouth noises (I call him explode-a-boy when he's doing it, b/c it sounds like he's making explosion sounds).

It comes and goes, and I haven't seen it for a while but right now its back. Its great a) to hear we're not alone in this and b) to have something new to explore to learn about it. We thought it was more OT related, and sensory seeking behavior -- now reading this, SMD fits MUCH more than with sensory issues (he is a sensory kid - loves strong flavors, amusement park rides, etc., but things that should help a kid with a proprioceptive sensory disorder [seeking the pounding sensations that would follow his jumping around] don't really seem to make much difference for him).

For DS it started young. We have a video of him at 2 running back and forth in and out of the room where DH and I were sitting telling us a story he was making up. ;-)

We've always worried a bit about it for social reasons - and more so now that he's getting older! - but he's also slipped twice while doing it and once nearly cracked his head on a metal manhole cover. It was sheer luck that he didn't...