Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy School thinks DD6 is entirely ordinary

It goes from bad to worse for my DD - and from exasperating to infuriating for me. I am told she is 'very slow' to complete her work. Work she completed once already a full year ago. Exactly the same workbook. Which she declared 'too easy' a year ago. No one suspects boredom as a cause, because the oodles of equally 'bright' kids in the class are just zipping along. I'm only hearing about her 'very slow' work speed after expressing concern about academics. I must remember to keep my head below the parapet in future, lest I make things worse for my child.

And isn't that the worst of it? My child is being penalized because her parents are attempting to ensure sufficient challenge. At a school which purports to value that sort of thing. All of those promises of differentiation have turned to dust because one administrator thinks her job is to disprove every external test result that crosses her desk.

I'm not sure I need advice so much as a hug. I am failing miserably as an advocate for my child, and have actually made things worse for her. I'm not sure that all the emails and meetings in the world can fix this, and we're only a few weeks into the year. Am I wrong? Are 99.8's really that thick on the ground?

Ok then, hugs today. Advice tomorrow?

No, you are not wrong. Problem is 99.8s are that rare and they all look quite different and they don't necessarily fit the profile of the bright high achieving student schools are used to.

Big hugs!!!

I have a 99.8 who seems quite average academically so far. I'm glad I tested before he started school or I would be thinking I had kids with 3 SD between the rather than just one. Mostly in his case it is being risk averse. In your daughters case yes she sounds bored. Why would they have her do the same workbook twice?

Same problem, good luck and Big hugs:)).

I wish you the best of luck. I do not know whether this helps, but it is my thoughts on the subject.

Sometimes when dealing with those that do not understand something that I am trying to explain, I choose a different tactic. Be pragmatic. Look for the method to get the right end result, even if the parties whose help I need do not understand why I need it.

If you truly want to do something for her, do everything you can to remove her from that school. The year will be wasted academically, and it could be damaging psychologically. You are in a position in which I wish I could go back in time and do it over.

I just went through the same thing last year with my son. It was awful and toxic. The "disproving" the test results really strikes me as a major concern. My son's teacher last year resorted to humiliating him in class by asking him questions to things she hadn't taught. It's like she thought he should already know everything. She made it a goal to prove he wasn't any different than the other bright kids in the class. She pointed out every flaw she could. She also ignored my son's request for help when he needed it. It was so bad that we recently discovered that he didn't think he "deserved" to get help. His self-esteem crashed, his confidence disappeared and he was troubled by going to school to "waste his life away". That is heartbreaking to hear when dropping a 6yo child off at school.

We moved him to a new school this year and he is blossoming. He loves his teachers and his class. He's genuinely happy and engaged. I knew he had issues last year. I was counting down the days until he was out, but he's opening up even more about how his teacher "didn't even act like I existed". He now has something to compare last year to and it's upsetting. I'm glad we are in a new place now. It's like night and day in every aspect.

If you have any choice in the matter, change her school immediately.

We switched schools last year because of this same issue. I can't believe the change in our son. He's so motivated academically now and proud of himself. Environments like those are toxic to kids like ours. Wish I had just homeschooled him last year!

Well, hugs.

Below is not advice. It is just my experience.

Pragmatism is important, but sometimes a teacher really can do a lot of harm, especially to a kid who is highly sensitive.

Our child has had two bad classroom experiences. In the first one (a preschool), we talked with the head of the school. She was very approachable, but we didn't get the sense that she saw a problem. As nice as she (and the school) was, we left that school. The next year my daughter had a much better experience.

The second time (an elementary school), the administration was very receptive to our concerns, never belittled them, and the counselor became an advocate for my child. Nothing changed during that school year, but the right teacher was selected for her this year and things are so much better.

That leads me to believe that before changing schools, it can be helpful to talk to someone higher up. I think finding an advocate there helped in a more long-term way.

At any rate, I left my child in the bad situation for the remainder of the year both times. It DOES do damage. I would not leave my child in that situation for longer than a year, and I do wish I had brought up the problem earlier last year and tried to get her class changed. In both years we spent the summer working to build her confidence back up again. But this year she has a teacher who knows her history and can help build her confidence back up too. There is something to be said for that.

I totally get the "doing more harm" thing. FWIW, things I have learned (for my situation) are: not to use the words bullied or gifted, talk about very observable specifics, document the things that concern you (we kept behavior calendars, samples of handwriting, samples of work that concerned us and showed a pattern, examples of what my child was doing at home), bring the documentation. I think documentation is really, really important. The school needs to SEE the problem, not just hear about it.

Whether changing schools or staying in place, advocacy may be needed from time to time. Some environments are open to advocacy, and some are much less so. Ongoing research on the environment/audience and advocacy skills, continued gathering of information, and practice may all help yield positive results through advocacy.

For example, when a school representative states in a meeting that your DC may move ahead upon proving mastery, you may wish to inquire for details as to how they define mastery, for example: cut scores or activities which will be utilized, timetable for these assessments or activities, redo opportunities, etc. This provides a transparent process.

At the end of the meeting you may wish to recap and document the agreements, understandings, and next steps from the meeting. Then if it appears any of the agreements are not being followed, you have a basis for initiating a follow-up meeting. This holds the school accountable for their process.

At this point you may wish to request a meeting to essentially recap understandings from the prior meeting, inquire as to progress and any actions taken, seek details, and then document these understandings and agreements.

You may also wish to keep dated written records at home. This will be largely for your own use, and will provide a factual framework for future efforts.

Other posts which may be of interest here and here.

A list of advocacy resources in this thread.

Sorry to hear this. How frustrating. Last year DD was considered the slowest in the class and now none of the teachers see her as being particularly slow and she's with kids who are much more advanced than last year. So what changed? The level of the work is the biggest thing I can think of. Either that, or her medication. Does your DD have an explanation for why she's slow? Or is it that they're totally making it up?

We had this sort of situation with DS last year, where the teacher seemed focused on proving he's not really as advanced as we thought. She completely disregarded the WISC, Woodcock Johnson Achievement, etc. Now 6 months later he is scoring like an average 9th grader for math in second grade (on the above-level test the school district gives). Somehow I think she'd figure out a way to even dismiss that. With these types of people it is useless to argue, I'd just figure out a way to get out. They are never going to admit "Oh, ok, I was wrong, she really IS quite advanced so here's what we're going to do to get her challenging work." They are going to ignore all evidence that is contrary to what they want to believe.

Don't have much advice, but I feel for you. My son has always been slow to do work he considers boring. But my DS15 is often also slow to do work, particularly if it's boring work. Second grade was quite difficult since the teacher would only give him the more advanced work when he completed the normal work first. Frustrating because why should a kid have to fill out 25 addition problems that he knows in order to get more advanced math. It's one of the reasons we put my son in the local gifted program in 4th. Luckily DS has a much better teacher in 3rd grade.

We finally had DS tested this past summer. Turns while he scores quite high of most skills, he has average working memory and processing speed. These obviously show him down. I agree with most of the others, the school here is confusing "gifted" kids with those who are high performing and are quick to do the work.

Good luck finding a solution.

DS8, now in third grade, suffered through second grade in a different school last year. He was made to feel as if he was bad in math because he has difficulty with Timed Math Facts sheets due to a very low processing speed (21%). He was miserable, hated school and did not want to attend. This is a boy who is extremely social, loves to learn and loves school as a combination of both.

To reengage his love of learning over the summer, he worked on the Stanford EPGY K-7 math at a 4.5 grade level AND the Stanford EPGY Beginning Algebra (set at an 8.0 grade level). He didn't finish either but that was due to the time limitations we set rather than his intellectual capacity. He was doing a lot of other things and it was just a time-filler. Now he is in an HG classroom with other HG kids. This year, he is RElearning the value of neat work (which his second grade teacher totally let slide), organizational skills, and how not to talk during lessons; all things he knew in FIRST grade but regressed in second due to the environment. We're not pushing for grade acceleration because of those regressions but also because DS8 prefers to be with age-peers who are also intellectual peers.

We just received his beginning of the year MAP results and during our discussion, I was struck by DS8 asking me:

"So I'm really not bad at math?"

He absolutely hated math last year due to the timed math facts sheets and the addition worksheets. He learned multiplication and division in kindergarten, and we made algebra equations (a + 4 = 7) in preschool. He's been so opposed to math because he THOUGHT he was bad at it that we haven't exposed him to higher level maths yet; still, his MAP scores put him at mid-fifth grade.

I would move her, if you can.

Thanks, everyone. And yes, Indigo, I was ready for the advice the next day, so thank you all for that, as well.

I've gone up the food chain, about as high as possible in our school, and am told to expect a response early this week. I've offered the sensible solution of testing out - the plan I thought we had all agreed to, already. I erred in not sending out an email summmarizing the agreed-upon plan. That is excellent advice that I commend to everyone else in similar circumstances. I won't make that mistake again.

The allegation of 'slow work' is entirely bizarre. I do have one of those very slow children, but it's not DD6. She's the fast, accurate, child who has always been described by teachers as a class leader. If she is slow, I expect it's boredom-induced, but I'm inclined to think it's an outright lie designed to make me go away.

If she didn't love the school I'd already be pursuing other options. I may still, depending on how the principal handles the situation. I'm hoping the toxicity is administrator-specific and not system-wide.

I remember the horror of being so under challenged and so terrified of the prospective boredom of having NOTHING left to do that I procrastinated and took forever to complete mundane tasks at school too at various stages.

I would be astounded if no others on this board had similar experiences.

Ugh, I'm so sorry. That was the summary of our experience for K-2. After 2, we moved.

In my experience with our old district, the issue was really very top-down. They were never, ever in a million years going to acknowledge that DD was desperately bored in school and their behavior toward her was making her worse. Things might've gotten a bit better if we'd stayed this year because the school's got a new principal, but then, maybe not.

DD also thought she loved her old school, and she and I both loved her friends. But having friends didn't keep her from being miserable and bored for 6 hours per day. But she does like the new school ok now that we've started it, and her 3rd grade teacher has already figured out DD can do more of 4th and 5th grade math, which is a really hopeful sign for week 3 of school.

Sending more hugs!

We had this all year (our school year runs from end Jan to mid Dec) - and we are moving schools now. Things have gone from unexpectedly good(with his first teacher of the year) to not-great, to bad, to worse, to WHAT-ARE-THEY-SMOKING!?!?! with the second (very young, inexperienced) teacher. We eventually got so tired of them saying he's not working in class/working exceptionally slowly that I provided them with a sheet for them to tick off whether he did the work or not (per subject) - and requested that they send any unfinished work home with us. The teacher replied that it wasn't school policy to send work home (and told DS8 this!), but claimed she would fill in the form I provided. She did it twice, then stopped. Since last week she hasn't replied to any notes we've sent with DS to school at all.

The play therapist DS is seeing for (wait for it) school related anxiety (I wonder why!) told us not to move DS to a different school before she has addressed the anxiety... I basically said screw it, she has NO idea what we are facing, and she hasn't seen day in, week out, month in, year out, what this school has done to him! I highly doubt that it's general school related anxiety, it's rather this-specific-school related... anyway.

So DS spent a day at a private school (way better where we are) last week, and did their entrance exams as they claim to be ahead of our government/public schools, so they check if the kids will cope. Let me add here that DS's current school said they would recommend we keep DS back a year, and then the private school accepted him very happily, and apparently told him he got everything right for the one test - which from what he's said was at least 1 year ahead of his current school's grade level...

So, let me add to the voices who came before - if at all possible, I'd change the school. DS has been happier socially this year, but the psych he saw for IQ testing told us it's because he's learnt to interact with his age peers, but he is still lacking connections to true peers... so while I'm sad that he's going to lose this group of friends, I'm confident that he'll find a good bunch at the new school.

Either way, it seems like it's never easy, doesn't it?!

PS what IS it with schools feeling the need to disprove that these kids are what they've already proven themselves to be? It scares me that these are the people teaching kids in general, not even just the gifted kids they have such issues with...

I suspect some of it is jealousy and their own feelings of inferiority. Most of these teachers have their own children, and chances are very good that these children are not advanced or gifted. DS's teacher last year had 8 (!!!) of her own children (or maybe it was 6, but still), with the youngest being in preschool and the oldest being in college. Her Dh was staying home with the kids while she worked. If I had to make a wild guess, she was doing the job for the paycheck and the last thing she wanted to see were kids who were getting help at home to become more advanced and clearly doing better than her own. So I became (in her view) a pushy hot-housing mom, otherwise how could DS do so much better than her own kids? This is all speculation but I'm trying to look at things from their view and how they deal with the cognitive dissonance of teaching children that are more advanced than their own. They don't want to say "Oh, yeah, my kid really is average and despite being a teacher I'm not doing a great job with my own kid." They want to explain away the data or label the parent as a tiger parent. The most sympathetic teachers, that I've found, are those who have older children who were themselves advanced and now doing well. So there is no anxiety or jealousy related to it. It's no different than other people in general. I don't go running around saying how advanced my kid is to other random parents because of the evil eyes that I'd get and I doubt most teachers are any different. They want to teach kids that are similar to their own kids, or behind their own kids (in general! Obviously their are huge exceptions, like the spec. ed teacher who did the WJ on DS and said how amazing it was, even though he had average kids in the same school).