Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional A question about the law

Hi, this does not relate to education, but to a community setting. I'm not sure of where to go with the issue and was hoping a mom here might have a suggestion.

We live in PA and went to a state park today to swim. I had to pay for my sons therapist to enter with us and that didn't feel right to me. She is there to help with behavior so that he can actually participate in a community outing. She didn't swim and was being paid by the state to be with us. I feel like I was charged extra because of my sons disability. If I have to pay extra to allow my disabled son to enjoy the same things that other kids can enjoy at a state park, isn't that discrimination for his disability?

It was only 8 bucks and we could have managed without the TSS, but that is us. What if that were a barrier to another family with a more extreme need and/or more dire financial situation? Lots of private venues we visit allow aides in for free and I was pretty shocked that a state run park made me pay for her to to enter with us.

Any thoughts? Am I wrong? Is there a place to report the issue to? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated. Thanks.

That's an excellent point and I completely agree with you. I have a special needs kiddo who also sometimes travels with a behavioral therapist. They would never get away with charging people extra if they needed to use a wheelchair ramp. I think many times it's just ignorance, not meanness. Have you thought about sending them a nice letter explaining the situation? If that doesn't work you could try your state disability rights office. Good on you for bringing it up!

I did some reading. I found that a lot of places give a discount to caregivers/aides in the position you mentioned, but I didn't find anything implying or saying that there's a legal requirement for them to do so.

Some places have a blanket policy charging everyone who enters.

I'm not following. Are you saying that the person at the ticket gate charged more than they would have done if they didn't know your circumstances.

What if you went to a restaurant? Should the therapist get a free meal? Is that the kind of thing you're suggesting?

Wouldn't it make more sense if you kept receipts of such expenses and got the agency who pays for the therapist to refund expenses as they deem appropriate?

Warning: I have to go all momma bear here. Sorry in advance.

We are talking about a state park, not a private business. In fact, this same state is even paying for this therapist to be there. If a blind person needed a seeing eye dog, it would get let into the park free. I think maybe some people don't understand what these behavioral therapists do. It is pretty critical that they be with the child in the same settings where there are issues/behaviors that have to be addressed. Somewhat related to this , the state pays for my disabled kid to have an aide in his class. Without it, he wouldn't be getting the FAPE he is legally entitled to. At least in California, the law says that disabled people have a right to enjoyment and recreation (Lanterman Act). If a state park can be required to provide handicapped parking and expensive walkways for people who need a wheelchair why is my kid less equal because his disability involves something other than mobility? Let's be clear : the therapist is not there to have fun and didn't even swim. She/he is there because otherwise this disabled child cannot use this state park as it was intended, on an equal footing with non disabled peers. I realize this seems like a trivial point for some people but it is a sore spot for many in the autism community. Our kids are not less equal or less loved.

What about an interpreter for the deaf? In order to acess a state park say nature program you might need one. Should she need to pay admission for the child to access the program? I am not sure because the restaurant one I think is a valid question but the food re is consumed. At the state park it is admission fee vs food.

I want to say at our state parks you pay by the carload...so as long as you can squeeze the therapist in the car they don't charge extra.

Well said, SouthLake. It strikes me as inequitable that some disabilities would be recognized and accommodated, and others not. This isn't simply a question of head count--the aide/therapist is required for the child to access the facility.

I think we in Canada and the US need to disabuse ourselves of the opinion that accommodating disabilities is a discretionary consumption decision, because it isn't. It's an equity issue.

The restaurant is a non-issue because food costs are sunk for the therapist. Food is required for the therapist to exist independent of the client relationship, so it's irrelevant to the calculation on a marginal basis.

If I went to a restaurant and took my sons TSS and she just sat there and helped with behavior and didn't eat anything then it wouldn't cost me anything.

Our therapist did not enter the water or use anything at the pool.

If a child needed a 24 hour nurse for medical needs would they charge for her to come in and take care of her charge? That wouldn't seem right to me. His TSS is an accommodation, not a person there to enjoy the swimming pool.

I myself used to work as a TSS and I was admitted to a community pool with one of my clients on multiple occasions for free. I was surprised I had to pay today. Also seems silly for me to ask for MA to pay for his TSS with tax money so that she can be at a state swimming pool with us.

What about a privately run pool?

Anyway, how is the gate person supposed to know that some person in the party has some special role that would warrant free entry? You would need some method to verify that a person is some kind of professional aide, and that they are acting in that capacity at that time?


How much were they costing the state?

My son's therapists have IDs supplied by the agency and when necessary (such as to accompany him to one of the city's day camps) they fax over the paperwork showing they have been TB tested, fingerprinted and background checked.

Of note, when a therapist accompanies my son to a city-run daycamp, I don't pay an entrance fee for the therapist and when we have gone to the pool (which is done not because it's entertaining but to work on specific skills like tolerating the feel of wet cold clothes while being around a certain amount of noise) we have not had to pay for the aide's entrance fee. In our area this is a recognized ADA accommodation.

Hi, found this for you (tried looking around b/c I'm curious now. I wonder how it works with the elderly, etc.): http://www.thespeciallife.com/disability-discounts.html#axzz353BZvWgI

Still not sure about the actual law on the subject... will try to research more or ask around to my colleagues tomorrow ...

I told the person that she was my sons therapist, I didn't expect him to read my mind. How much is she costing the state? Her salary of likely 15 bucks or so an hour plus all of the overhead. So, in short, a ton of money. Why?

And just because we can manage without a TSS doesn't mean we should have to. My son is aggressive when upset and gets upset often. It is safer for everyone if the TSS is there to help out, both helping him stay calm and dealing with behaviors if they occur.

BTW, thanks a bunch everyone. I really appreciate your responses

Incidentally, in a privately run pool the aide would have been free - when you belong to a private pool you get to bring guests, aides, etc. for "free."

Really? I don't think you can make such a sweeping generalization about how all non-government-run pools operate.

I just want to mention that most State Parks have programs for free admission or up to 50% off for people with disabilities. You should look into it.

Get in touch with your state's ADA coordinator. There might be one as a part of the parks department or it might just be someone in the social services department. This is an issue they should be made aware of and your bringing it up could result in a better outcome for other families in the future.

Any state, city, etc. that gets federal money has to have an ADA coordinator and a complaint procedure.

Look around the agency websites and you'll probably find someone.

No one stopped the aide from entering the park and no one stopped her from doing her job and no one said that kids with disabilities should be less equal and less loved. A cashier just just asked her to pay the eight bucks. If they give a discount, that's nice. It's great. But there doesn't seem to be a LAW requiring it.

So what if she didn't swim? She entered the park and there was an admission fee for doing so. End of story. Maybe the park offers a discount, and the cashier didn't know that. Personally, I would have made a casual enquiry with the State Parks department before making claims about discrimination --- especially because no one was discriminated against. Asking for an admission fee that everyone else pays is not discrimination.

Here's another scenario to consider. What if you needed to catch a flight and your child needed an aide. Should the airline give the aide a free ticket?

I think it comes down to the fact that in this country we have decided that disabled people should have similar access to public facilities/services, generally under the ADA. Personally I find the argument most compelling when we are talking about government provided services since I think equal protection under the law should mean, well, equal protection. However, interestingly this has already been applied in a number of cases to private settings such as motels and hotels or your doctor's office.

When mobility disabled people ride airplanes, to cite your example, the airlines and airport have to provide transportation services (for example between terminals). Someone has to pay the salaries of those people who push the wheelchairs to carry these people where they need to go. These people don't pay a higher ticket price. Who pays? You and me. Most people don't seem to have a problem with that.

You may not be aware of this, but when a deaf patient seeks care in a private doctor's office (in the US) that physician is legally obligated to provide for a sign language translator, even at the typical cost of a few hundred dollars (because often mileage charges and minimums apply). That's even though the typical Medicaid or Medicare reimbursement for the patient's visit is well below this amount. And the physician is expressly not allowed to charge the patient or the insurer (usually Medicare) for this. One doctor got sued successfully because he tried to substitute written communication since he knew the patient could read and write. Who pays for that? Obviously initially the doctor takes the loss but eventually that also gets passed on to me and you.

My point is only that it is unfair to decide some disabled people get accommodations at public cost and some don't. Certainly the incremental public cost here is minimal (a few cubic feet of air?) particularly given the state in the case has already agreed the child is disabled and requires an aide at least some of the time, at public expense.

Yes, disability is expensive and in virtually all cases somebody besides the disabled person is picking up part of the tab. Just ask all the motels that had to spend thousands upgrading their pools to make them accessible to people in wheelchairs following recent changes in the law. Or ask the families supporting these disabled persons (who pay taxes too).

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Nm. Let's simply agree to disagree on this.

Okay.

Yes, really, I can.

I'm with Val on this one. The "barrier" to the child being able to attend the swim was an extra $8. And the parent has admitted he could have still participated without the TSS, and the associated $8 fee. That barrier is easily surmountable. No law was violated.

Nope. Gyms.

Wow, autism should not be considered a disability that is covered by ADA because you think it is over diagnosed?

My son was diagnosed at 2 and at that time had no behavior problems at all. He met the criteria for an autism diagnosis based on the DSM-5. He is now 4 and is a very sweet person who happens to have occasional severe behavior problems relating to his social and emotional delays and anxiety.

As a former therapist myself I know exactly how to deal with problem behavior in the "right way". Unfortunately when my son gets upset nothing works to calm him down other than time. The therapist is there to help prevent meltdowns to begin with and help me deal with behaviors when they occur. Without her there is a higher chance others could be hurt and/or that we would have to leave the pool much sooner.

The parking lot at the pool is a fair hike from the pool entrance and carrying a protesting 40 pound kid plus all the swim gear to my car is something that I have done before, but something I never want to do again. The stares from people like you who think I'm just a crappy parent aren't much fun either.

My son also has significant sensory processing differences and mixed receptive expressive language disorder (where he is able to communicate at a much higher level than he can understand). He receives OT, speech, special instruction, PT, and 20 hours of behavioral support a week, in addition to state insurance paying for his allergies and GI issues as well as potential arthritis we are still investigating. He's started developing tics and he has strong OCD tendencies. I'm pretty sure I didn't convince the IU, local children's hospital who diagnosed him (CHOP), Early Intervention, staff at Theraplay and everyone else that he has autism just because I want an excuse for him pushing anyone who comes into his personal space. And I'm pretty sure the state would not pay for all of that if there wasn't pretty convincing evidence that he has an actual disability.

My son has 2 high functioning friends on the spectrum who also clearly require the help that they receive. I don't know anyone who would want their kid to be labeled autistic just for accommodations. We all just want our kids to be happy and healthy, just like any other parent. We also want to be able to go out and do normal things with them without the burden of extra expenses that families without disabled children do not need to worry about.

I haven't researched the law on this question, but when dealing with the ADA in an employment context, the law requires employers to provide reasonable accommodations to their employees that will allow them to perform their job duties. The key in that analysis is "reasonable." It isn't always the ideal accommodation, or exactly what the employee might most like to have/do. My assumption would be that in a case like this, if the pool is accessible to the individual without waiving the entrance fee for the aide, waiving that fee would likely not be legally required simply because it is preferable.

Or, ditto Dude.

I said no such thing.


I've been through similar scenarios countless times. That seems like a fairly routine parenting situation to me.

Have you looked into the Access Pass for national parks? There are 2000 sites that are managed by federal agencies that will provide a pass to individuals with a permanent disability reguardless of age. The pass wavies the enterance fee to everyone in the car or if the fee is per person, the pass holder can enter with three others.