Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Giftedness discovered - then big anger? Help!!!

In February we started the testing process for DD9. That has been followed up with more testing, teacher conferences, principal conferences, etc.. to see what we can do to
figure out her education and answer some other questions brought up by the WJ. I put her on ALEKS as well to see what she could do in math plus allow her to try some higher level work since she said math was "SO BORING" in school. This Spring we have also noted that her anger level has shot through the roof, and we have been trying to figure out what changes have occurred that would account for the increase in emotion. So far, many family changes have been positive so we wonder, is all this new testing and focus causing too much stress? We are trying so hard to get a handle on her giftedness, but she seems to be more upset at home! Has anyone else encountered this?

My first thought is that if your DD is being challenged, it may be the first time she has experienced frustration.

My DS7 becomes frustrated or tunes out when he hasn't solved a problem instantly and correctly the first time.

Also, you can't underestimate physical and developmental changes. Over the years, I have discerned patterns where DS regresses significantly in coping skills- once it calms down, he's either grown two inches, or acquired a new skill set.

You say many family changes that were positive... I don't think you can dismiss those as not related. Change is still stressful, positive or negative. And it may be seen as positive by you - but she may have a different spin on the same changes. She is 9 - does she have any reasons she given you as to why she seems more upset?

Any changes at school - especially with other kids? (I assume we are not dealing with for instance, it is their last year at elementary school - that in itself, at this time of the year, can really affect some kids). Any changes in her perception of herself as a result of all that is going on?

Personally, I found the second half of elementary school years the worst years of all the years I was in school - from pre-K through college.

I am not sure I have anything helpful to add, but I wanted to add my support. Also, I think 9 is a tough age, especially for a girl. Female relationships start to become very, very complicated.

I do wonder if she is unaccustomed to being fully challenged and is experiencing stress over the added challenge. While it is very common for kiddos to be G&T ID'd at this age, they have already had several years of "easy school."

DD8 can be VERY emotional and dramatic at home, but she has always been rather intense. She, too, was tested this past year (extensively), and so she might be encountering added challenge due to programming changes. Suddenly, she is getting more homework (I would prefer it was different, not more, but that is the subject for another thread). At times, she seems angry, too. I am not sure what is causing it, but I am constantly trying to figure it out...so you are not alone.

Perhaps someone who has an older DC, who had "challenge" added at the age of 8 or 9 can comment on how to best help a student adjust to this?

I am going to start this saying that not knowing your daughter I really have no idea, but here are a few things to think about. I would wonder if it's stress, anxiety, and/or confusion about what is going on. Does you daughter know why she is being tested? Perhaps she is confused and not getting the correct story. This seems to be the plot of numerous children's books where the protagonist misinterprets something the adults are doing. Your daughter might feel like she has lost control or say to what is going on or when it's happening. I myself remember a time in 3rd grade where I was horribly upset that I was being pulled out to do "different" math with a bunch of horrid boys and separated from my new best friend. (Different math turned out to be the top math group. ;-) ) Perhaps your daughter is missing something she loves when she was taken out for tests. Maybe other kids are teasing her about it.

Agree with all of the above. Wanted to add the possibility that now that everything isn't super easy maybe she is scared she isn't as smart as she/you/teacher/classmates/etc think she is.

I just realized the speculation doesn't really help. What you need to do is talk with your daughter when she isn't angry and upset. I know this is easier said than done and a bit tricky. How to talk with your child and get them to open up is a long discussion and varies child to child. I carry on a lot of these conversations when I'm driving my son places in the car, or going for a walk. The idea that he doesn't have to LOOK me in the face or across a table.

Good Luck.

Any changes in her perception of herself as a result of all that is going on?
-If anything, she thinks that she is more stupid. She has been told how “fast” her brain is, yet she is incredibly disorganized, and she is very aware of that. She constantly forgets her homework or her lunchbox.

DD8 can be VERY emotional and dramatic at home, but she has always been rather intense.
-Yes, our daughter has always been more on the glass half empty side. Now she is just more negative.

Does your daughter know why she is being tested?
Wanted to add the possibility that now that everything isn't super easy maybe she is scared she isn't as smart as she/you/teacher/classmates/etc think she is.

-I have talked about why she is being tested. The psychologist today talked to her about it as well. It’s hard to know what DD thinks about it; she is very averse to discussing anything about her feelings. Her go to phrase is “I don’t know.” She does not think that she is smart. She constantly compares herself to her sister. Constantly. DD10 is perfect according to DD9. That is where most of her anger is directed.

She is 9 - does she have any reasons she given you as to why she seems more upset?
What you need to do is talk with your daughter when she isn't angry and upset.

-She can’t tell me why she is more angry than normal. When I try to talk when she is not angry, I can’t get much out of her. She has always been a tough nut to figure out!! Maybe I ought to write her a note. My husband and I used to do that when we were mad at each other. I can write my questions to her and see if she will answer them.
You all have given me a lot to think about. I really appreciate it.

So DD9 is really angry at DD10 because she is "perfect" and it is spilling over into all areas. I think I am familiar with the type of anger that you are dealing with, unfortunately.

Are things going exceptionally well for DD10 right now? Academically, socially, in sports, or anything else? Really all that matters is that DD9 perceives a (negative) difference between her and DD10. Sibling rivalry can cause a LOT of anger, even when it is something that doesn't seem like a big deal to the parents.

If you can figure out what it is, try to find something, anything - really, that DD9 does better than DD10 and make a HUGE deal out of it. HUGE! Try to find something that she can excel at the DD10 doesn't do. Build up her self confidence.

You may even want to consider taking her to a therapist. Dealing with siblings can be very, very difficult on top of dealing with being different from the other children at school.

When does school end for you? Maybe she's just frustrated and can't wait to chill out some over the summer. Right now, our state tests are going on so there's extra stress. Is there testing looming at school? My kids dread their SOL testing. Maybe it's a case of feeling over-tested.

Are they giving her different work or more work than other kids in her class?

If I recall correctly from previous posts...

This child was experiencing friendship difficulties. It was initially a relief to learn that she was gifted, as gifted intensity may be at least a partial explanation for her friendship difficulties. Giftedness could mean that she is not alone in her experiences, and that there may be several resources available to help coach her as a gifted child.

Educationally, the school offered 1-subject acceleration but the family wanted 2-subject acceleration. These accelerations would place her in her older sister's grade having classes amongst her sister's friends which raised concerns in the family as the older sister enjoys strong friendships. Additionally this child has petite stature and is often mistaken for being younger than she is, both of which she strongly dislikes. She has seen adult role models censure other adults who mistake her age, rather than seeing the subject approached with grace and humor.

When reading a book for gifted children which she was given, she inquired about her own intellectual profile and was told she could learn her IQ when she turns 18, therefore she believed she was average. This belief may have been both untrue and painful.

Some may say the child is not being given a clear indication of her strengths and weaknesses, including the longed for support/acceptance/tools for growth. Rather she may be experiencing ongoing contradictions and dead-ends which may seem to have put her at odds with the world, with little affirmation.

This is only reflective of previous posts, which may or may not hold the key to understanding current circumstances.

She is an amazing artist and photographer. She just started photo. lessons this week. We are trying to build on her strengths. We are in the beginning stages of therapy. I have my fingers crossed! DD even admitted to the therapist that she is angry at her sister every day so that came out right away!

Over tested has been my guess for a lot of this behavior. She has been the subject of a lot of tests in the last few months! Some at school and some as we try to figure out what is going on with her (I may have stated earlier that the psych. wondered why DD's WJ scores were so much lower than her WISC so sent us on for more testing). The EOG's are next week which does not help at all.

We have not been offered any subject acceleration, but she has received AIG designation for next year. Unfortunately, that is only an hour or so pullout per week. Even for our older DD who is moderately gifted, this is not enough. Both girls took a test last week to see if they would get single subject acceleration in math. The principal told me Tues. that even if DD9 has above level Iowa, WISC, Cogat, Lexile, she can't get services because as my previous post states, she didn't do as well on the WJ. So, we wait for the SSA test results.

She is tiny as you state. She is cantankerous about this for sure. We have been talking about role models who are small.


You wrote: "When reading a book for gifted children which she was given, she inquired about her own intellectual profile and was told she was average. This may have been both untrue and painful."

-Goodness! She has never been told that she was average. Both testers told her that she did quite well on her tests. We talk about her "fast brain" at home. We bought the book written for gifted kids so she could read about other kids like her. When she asked for her IQ score, we showed her the IQ scale so she could see where she was without us giving her the exact score (we were advised against it).
We have done so much and have been to many specialists. We are trying very hard to help our DD. I don't know what you mean by "dead ends". We just had another visit with the principal who has started "Brainology" with DD. The principal is as puzzled as the rest of us, including the WJ tester, why DD does so well on some assessments and not others. Next week we have yet another psychologist appt. I feel like I haunt this forum; I ask so many questions. As many people post, it is hard to find someone to share in "real life" because they either don't understand or think that one is bragging. I am very grateful for the chance to "talk" with others whose kids are experiencing some of the same issues.

totally off topic... but if you ever want to look at role models for smaller people, look at coxswains at any rowing club or local rowing team. They are the smallest ones usually - and the "brains" of the boat, so to speak. And I known some lightweight rowers kick the heavyweights down the course

The best coxswains by far that I ever had - one was an MIT coxswain who was a runner (ah, I still miss her!) and the other was a well known coxswain (I think in his 40s or 50s who had been coxing for seemingly forever - basically he was better than many of my coaches - we would be so excited when he showed up to cox because it was like having a dedicated coach for a practice). Those two were the most precise folks ever - not just in steering some of the most challenging race courses but in figuring out how a boat of diverse talents and personalities could work together to the point that the boat was faster with them than any other coxswain.

My apologies if I did not remember exactly. I have taken a look at the previous posts.

I had developed the impression that your daughter had been offered single subject acceleration from
I had developed that impression from It may have been more accurate to say it appears she was allowed to believe, for a time, that she was average.

Prior posts seem to indicate this happened after some delay, during which DD9 expressed anger that information was being withheld.

As with many parenting questions, sharing a child's IQ score with the child may be somewhat controversial, resulting in forum discussions of both potential pros and cons. While there may no "right" or "wrong" answer the child may have thoughts and feelings about how the matter is/was handled within their family.

Prior posts alluded to friendships which ended abruptly, principal not following through, etc. While items generally may be resolved over time, the lack of a positive outcome and/or closure in a given situation may result in disappointment, a need to heal, and also gaining skill in regrouping and moving forward with a positive sense of what one may have done differently "if I knew then what I know now".

Your daughter is fortunate to have such a dedicated mom.

I'm just curious - have you had any feedback re what might have been going on with the WJ-III scores? Do you suspect any 2e challenges?

I really can't say what's up with your dd and anger - it could be *so* many different things and those of us who are just reading here can't talk to her in person or get info from her teachers etc and we didn't know her before all the recent testing etc - those are all things you'll need to sort through. And even though you don't seem to be getting any meaningful info from your dd at this point re the anger, keep giving her opportunities to talk about it - you may eventually get the info you're looking for from your dd.

The one thing that does jump out in a small way from the little info I do have - it seems like a lot changed in terms of how you are looking at things once you had the test results that showed she is gifted. This isn't a bad thing - naturally as a parent you want to do everything you can for your child - but it's possible her world has turned upside down when she really wasn't asking for that - upside down with testing etc. It's possible you might be relating to her in a different way or have different expectations that are different than you had prior to the testing - again, this isn't a bad thing but it can come across differently or be an unexpected change for a child. This absolutely happened for me when my older dd was tested - she was very young and she was tested for what we thought were cognitive challenges - I had absolutely *no* clue she might be gifted - partly because of the challenges we were having with her seemingly unable to follow multi-step directions, partly because her older brother is EG and we were used to looking at "gifted" through the lens of an EG kid who was so danged obviously EG when he spoke. DD didn't "speak" like a gifted kid - she was (and is) goofy, irreverent, the life of the party - and (I hate to say this but here goes) - sometimes a bit of an "air head". So - seeing her IQ numbers the first time was a bit of a shock. And once I had seen them, I started talking to her differently - not on purpose, it just happened. It's hard to explain, but basically I was talking to her at a higher level, because I knew that she was understanding at a higher level than I'd expected. It's possible that even a small shift like that might cause some children to feel like the world they were used to and comfortable in was changed, and that might lead to anger or acting out.

And.... just to throw it out there - it's close to the end of the school year. EOG testing is coming up. Spring/Summer is in the air. You might be talking about summer vacation plans at home. Any number of unrelated things might be causing her to be upset or angry. Things that might not make sense - but remember, she's 9 years old. It may seem like the anger is related to all the things that are so obvious to *you* that are going on (recent testing, finding out she's gifted etc) - but it's also possible she could be upset about something else entirely.

Good luck figuring it out -

polarbear

Do you suspect any 2e challenges?

-I think that's what the woman who did the WJ was wondering. We just got back a questionnaire from DD's teacher, and she also indicated that DD has trouble with wiggles, multi-step directions, listening. We meet with the psych. on Tues. again to see if there is more testing in the future.

It seems like a lot changed in terms of how you are looking at things once you had the test results that showed she is gifted.

-You are correct. That's why I wondered if others had seen their kids change in some way after they were discovered to be gifted. We can't go back to the old ways of schooling and such now that we have this information. I just feel bad that it might be causing her to be so upset. On the other hand - it may be something else entirely!!!!!