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    #183591 - 03/01/14 07:43 PM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    1111 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/26/11
    Posts: 246
    DS6 was offered to be subject accelerated in math by 1 year in his private school. Although we were glad they were open and understanding he needed more, we gently let them know it wouldn't be enough. Seems they are stuck on the fear of "gaps", which to me makes no sense what so ever. I explained to them that there is no way holding back a child because of a few potential gaps that can be easily filled in later.

    They agreed to let him skip the school curriculum and do EPGY math instead. So, he could have been sitting in the 2nd grade class right now drilling stuff he already knows. Instead he is working at his own pace, going through 6 years of math since this school year started.

    WHY hold back a young child's mind if it is ready for more?

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    #183640 - 03/02/14 07:32 PM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    ultramarina Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/24/10
    Posts: 3423
    Ugh. I have guilt about this. frown I strongly suspect DD is ready for more, but her school only works 1 year ahead. She never has any issue learning any of it, ever, and got every problem correct on a state standardized test last year, but expresses no interest in doing additional math. I don't like math and am weak in it, and DH is good at it but also does not like it. I don't think this is her main gift, but I know she could do more. She has too much homework and too many other activities regardless. frown Someone needs to light her mind up to math and I am not that person. frown

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    #183647 - 03/03/14 12:00 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: ultramarina]
    JonahSinick Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/28/13
    Posts: 51
    @ ultramarina,

    A few thoughts:

    (1) The math that's taught in grade school is analogous to piano scales and chords. A child whose exposure to music consisted exclusively of learning scales and chords might have no interest in doing more even if s/he had a strong musical inclination: learning scales and chords is unrepresentative of the experience of playing and listening to music. So your daughter could be mathematically inclined despite her lack of interest in doing more math.

    (2) Even if you don't like math and are weak at it now, these things may change in the future. As above, your exposure to math was likely unrepresentative of the subject. I know that you might have sufficiently strong negative associations so as to not want to revisit it, but I would guess that if you read Arithmetic for Parents: A book for Grownups about Children's Mathematics you'd enjoy it and find it illuminating.

    (3) Some math fun books for elementary school aged students are "Mathematicians Are People, Too: Stories from the Lives of Great Mathematicians" Volume 1, Volume 2, and The Man Who Counted: A Collection of Mathematical Adventures and The Number Devil: A Mathematical Adventure. You could offer her one and see if she's interested.


    Edited by JonahSinick (03/03/14 12:01 AM)
    _________________________
    Advising for gifted children available at Cognito Mentoring.

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    #183649 - 03/03/14 01:00 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    Mana Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/17/12
    Posts: 881
    I know we're very guilty of neglecting DD3.5's math talent, relatively speaking.

    I go way out of my way to support her literacy development. I spend hours and hours hunting for just the right books.

    Math is a different story. Her intense interest in it scared me. I was starting to think John Nash, not that I assumed she's be a great mathematician one day but the level of intensity was a bit pathological. My guess is that her preferred mode for thinking is visual/spatial/numbers and it gave her comfort to be thinking in numbers and it probably still does.

    Her other talent that stands out is music (not surprising given her love of patterns - not normal patterns but she seems to find orders in chaos) and we were thrilled to get her started with music lessons. We bought her instruments and hired a private teacher.

    Math? Ah, we're leaving it up to her to figure things out on her own. She's doing a pretty good job and why fix things when they aren't broken, right?

    I've been asking myself if I'd be this anti-math instruction/curriculum if we had a boy instead. I'd like to believe that nothing would change but maybe I'm in denial about my own gender bias.

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    #183656 - 03/03/14 06:00 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    ultramarina Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/24/10
    Posts: 3423
    Thanks, Jonah. I got her the Number Devil book once, but she was heavily into some other reading at the time and didn't really look at it. She has actually always been rather interested in math "tricks" and larger math ideas, (the number of conversations I've had about infinity--good grief) but would blanch at doing more "math math." That's what I mean...someone who was exciting about math would open her mind. She does like Vi Hart...I need to show her more of those (only watched two so far).

    She is actually fairly closely related to a very famous mathematician. I got none of the genes!--but they might be in there somewhere in my kids.

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    #183657 - 03/03/14 06:35 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    luvedu Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 02/26/14
    Posts: 31
    1111, you are fortunate that your child is allowed acceleration by a Year. My older son AP who is currently in 5th grade- Perfect score in Math ERB, ISEE , SCAT & Perfect Score LATIN SCHOOL math competition, not to mention he gets 99% ( yes a few marks taken off due to not reducing fraction like the teachers wanted etc...).

    YET his school not only doesn't put him in the Top 5th grade math section but refuses to acknowledge that he may be gifted in Math. He computes numbers and finds a way to solve the problem so fast that it baffles me..He says the school way of doing math is slowing him down ( as he says he doesn't want to loose his math intuition ) . We have gone through many nights of telling him - Hang in there buddy it gets better . But it doesn't :-(
    He gets A+ in writing and and science too....( chess, art- ahead many many years than his peers)

    We are hoping he does qualify for Davidson Academy Explore test scores ( due March 20th) and we can end his current School misery ! Yes I could home school him..But we like the projects he does in school with his buddies !The recess....yet I know he has no real friends to channel his intellect in school.

    His IQ is 145 -so he qualifies to be in gifted category . I strongly feel he should be allowed to accelerate in math...but alas his school doesn't even acknowledge he is gifted in Math. The principal outright told me they are the EXPERTS and I should look for another school if I am not happy ! This a gifted private school he goes to and these are the educators who have made this a personal ego issue- how can we let the bright minds progress at this rate ?

    I am not expert in education - but I see a child who wants to learn more, is SUPER well behaved, has shown consistently he excels in math - WHY DENY him ?

    He has started learning Trigonometry and he is barely 11 years old ! He can go faster , but my hands are tied ! I keep telling him use the extra time on Fine Arts etc...

    What is going on with the teachers at his school??

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    #183660 - 03/03/14 06:58 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: luvedu]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4202
    Quote:
    I strongly feel he should be allowed to accelerate in math...but alas his school doesn't even acknowledge he is gifted in Math. The principal outright told me they are the EXPERTS and I should look for another school if I am not happy ! This a gifted private school he goes to and these are the educators who have made this a personal ego issue- how can we let the bright minds progress at this rate ?
    Schools are typically not influenced by parental feelings but rather by research and evidence, well-presented. Information at the following links on the Davidson Database may be of interest...
    1- Advocacy - Working with your child's school http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10558.aspx
    2- Choosing the right school for your gifted child http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10511.aspx
    3- Basic educational options for gifted children http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10270.aspx
    4- Guidebook - Advocating for Exceptionally Gifted Young People, plus lists of other resources http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/browse_resources_165.aspx

    Other discussion threads have explored the possibility of a child taking the school's end-of-term test to demonstrate mastery.

    Does your child like school? Friends? Teachers? Curriculum placement and pacing?

    If your child's school is resistant to positive, well-prepared, unemotional advocacy, is not open to discussing well-presented evidence, and does not seem like a good fit, you may wish to visit other schools, have your child shadow, and work toward choosing the learning environment with the best (or least-worst) "fit".

    Regardless of the school your son attends, you may wish to read up on advocacy as those skills may be needed again.

    Another thought: Many students enjoy math activities outside of school to satisfy their voracious math appetite.

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    #183662 - 03/03/14 07:18 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    luvedu Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 02/26/14
    Posts: 31
    indigo. How kind of you to take the time to write to my post. I will absolutely go through all the link you have posted and learn.

    1) My son enjoys school and doesn't have any social emotional issues. There are always incidences when he tell me - the kids in his class just don't understand what he is talking about. This frustrates him as he has to talk just for the sake of talk and not truly engage in an in depth conversation.

    2) My son loves his English teacher ( wishes he could take her to the next school we hope to land in ) and is channeling his extra energies - left over from math - into English writing.

    3) Curriculum and placement - 100% out of synch. It is pvt school and they just don't want my opinion.

    4) This year we simply HAD IT and yes we have applied to 2 other schools. They may not be that far advanced in math but a change may be refreshing.

    5) Yes we absolutely have a parallel home schooling going on for our son in Math and in Eng Language ( writing).... He can not have survived his school years with it,without falling off the wagon and succumbing to dumbing down effect! We had a math online tutor ( for enrichment ) and he refuses to teach my son any moe math , as he says that my son will get bored all the way till high school ! Surely my son can do better with acquiring more knowledge and more practice - I say ! Mt son beat all the kids in higher math grades and beat all the kids in the region to take home a perfect score 5th grade regional Math competition . But again school is not impressed enough to move him to a higher math section.

    6) possibility of a child taking the school's end-of-term test to demonstrate mastery.--> Our pvt school will eject us out of the school immediately if I even dare to ask for this :-( !!!!

    Thank you indigo. I will post for which shcool my son lands up next year and how it seems like a better fit :-)

    Thank you again for your reply.

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    #183670 - 03/03/14 08:29 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: luvedu]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4202
    Quote:
    We had a math online tutor ( for enrichment ) and he refuses to teach my son any moe math , as he says that my son will get bored all the way till high school !
    Some may say it sounds like the tutor knows the educational system is broken as evidenced by schools being unresponsive to a child's readiness and ability... often not accelerating when indicated.

    Quote:
    Surely my son can do better with acquiring more knowledge and more practice - I say !
    Agreed! Here is an analogy: If a child liked broccoli (and broccoli is known to be healthy), would one withhold broccoli from a child who wanted more? [If one would not withhold broccoli, why withhold math?]

    Quote:
    Mt son beat all the kids in higher math grades and beat all the kids in the region to take home a perfect score 5th grade regional Math competition . But again school is not impressed enough to move him to a higher math section.
    Some may wonder whether public, private, independent, and parochial schools may be struggling to appease their largest donors who may become offended if one child is openly acknowledged to be ahead in one or more academic areas?

    Quote:
    Quote:
    possibility of a child taking the school's end-of-term test to demonstrate mastery.
    --> Our pvt school will eject us out of the school immediately if I even dare to ask for this :-( !!!!
    Ultimately, knowing that gifted children could learn math much earlier, but are being dissuaded... in favor of one-size-fits-all education... may be a wide-spread case of appeasement of a variety of powers-that-be.

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    #183743 - 03/03/14 07:26 PM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    1111 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/26/11
    Posts: 246
    Luvedu, we are dealing with a great school and feel fortunate. It took all of his K year suffering though. It wasn't until his highly respected 1st grade teacher told the administration she had never seen a child like this before. Seems it doesn't matter what kind of school, it is just a matter of finding this one person that "gets it".

    We played with the thought of sending DS to a gifted school but heard a lot of comments about those schools feeling they ARE doing what is right for the gifted and no other accommodations are necessary.

    Sounds to me a school switch is in order. One where your child is allowed to flourish!

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