Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Sunday School refusal-HG 7 year old

Hi, I'm posting here as DS7 is having difficulties with Sunday School. We are LDS so I thought I was more likely to be able to get a US site. DS7 has been bored with Sunday School for a long time, he says he doesn't get taught anything he doesn't already know. He now has trouble with friendships as the other children see him as naughty. Sunday School at our church is strictly by year of birth and he is the oldest in his class. I have been told for for the last two years to keep bringing him but now his behaviour has escalated it has been suggested I take him home. Recently things have been done to try to accommodate him but it is two years too late, I tried to explain the problems he was having then, but it is only since his behaviour has deteriorated that I feel anyone has listened. I'm worried that he won't go back if he stops going but I don't know what to do otherwise. Anyone been in a similar situation? Thanks.

I don't have any parenting experience in this area (we rarely go to church). However, I did experience this as a kid. My mom's solution was to bring me with to her Sunday School class. Personally, I found it a lot more interesting! Also, are there any other churches around that you could visit that have better Sunday School policies?

I'm a little confused. You're the parent and he's the kid. It sounds like he sort of "wears the pants" and you don't. My daughter doesn't like "Sunday School" but she doesn't have an option in the matter. It sounds like you and your son have the problem not the Sunday School.

Hey, LDS here. Yeah, January/February birthdays are tough with the age system -- my daughter is a January birthday and may have the same problems. I've also taught Sunday School for varying Primary ages.

It sounds like you are not from the US? Where are you from? (I'm from the US, so don't know how much of this will be applicable to you.)

First, I am shocked that there has been a suggestion to take him home. I have never seen this in my experience with the LDS church -- even with the very-disruptive ADHD child, even with the severely autistic child (although arrangements were made to deal with that particular case). I agree with your intuition that he might not ever go back if he stops going.

Does he see the other kids on a regular basis for playdates, church activities, etc. in situations where he will NOT be acting up? If he has a strong social connection and peer group to share Sunday School with, perhaps that can motivate him not to be "naughty." This isn't always going to work (for example, it doesn't always work with the ADHD child I mentioned above), but it does provide a foundation and can, I think, ameliorate some of the worse conduct.

I also am surprised that he's been bored for two years straight. Our Primary focuses a lot on art projects and games to help the kids digest the lessons in a more fun way. Does your Primary know about sugardoodle.net? BEST WEBSITE EVER. If the teachers don't use this website, they should.

Another solution is to call you or your spouse to be the Primary teacher for that particular year, assuming he's more likely to listen to you than another adult. (This happened to me one year when MY kid was the kid who was acting up.) At the very least, you can tailor the lessons a little more to teach him things he doesn't already know! Or work with the teacher to give her/him ideas as to what might motivate your child. I can tell you, as a Primary teacher who's been in that situation, that I would be abjectly grateful for any guidance a parent could give me with a difficult child.

Another solution we have used in my ward is to call the parent as an "auxiliary teacher," or for the parent to unofficially be available to pull the child out of class when he gets too disruptive. This happened for a while with one class I was teaching (5-year-olds) -- the mom had to stop by every week and pull her kid out. After a couple of months of this he settled down.

Anyway, without knowing more details (do you get along with the teacher? What does s/he say? Does your child behave in Sacrament and Primary?) I can't give more specific solutions, but hopefully these are helpful.

When it comes to religious beliefs, the beliefs are 100% the property of an individual. So in that respect, the kid most certainly does wear the pants (whether you like it or not, and most parents don't when there are differences of opinion in this area).

momofone, would your son be happier at home? If he's miserable and you're miserable and the other kids and the school aren't happy, maybe it would be better to take a break.

can you explain-- I'm not sure that I'm understanding this part of your post.

I mean, I understand LDS and I understand US-- I'm unclear about the bearing that the one has on the other statement, and whether that is about your POST, or your situation with your DS.

If you are outside of the US, I agree that it might be difficult to find "another" house of worship given the LDS part of things.

Would your faith community still acknowledge training within that faith if it happened at home? Through a non-Sunday School method?

This is what I've always done so far, him not having an option, and that has led to this current situation. He has gone from complaints to this current behaviour that only happens in church. I feel it has escalated because I have made him go despite his protests.

He believes what is taught, speaks about the same beliefs at home. The class has not been appropriate to his development since having a great teacher when he was 4. As far as I know, the situation will be the same if we attend another chapel.

Sorry, I'm on my phone so there are typos. I meant that in the US I may be able to find people who are familiar with my church, or Sunday school in general, compared with a general parenting website in my own country.

I will try taking him into the adults class again for the time being but I wanted him to connect with the other kids and have friends in church. He would be happier at home, yes.

Hmm, it looks like my post earlier for some reason didn't show up until now (see 12:12)? Anyway, I'm LDS.

If you're taking him into the adult class, perhaps you could supplement church with playdates and other social activities with the other kids in his class? Then maybe he would be more amenable at a later date to going back to his Primary class. A couple of parents and I have had some luck with this when we had kids who really hated going to class. Does your ward do any kind of playgroup or kids' activities on a regular-ish basis? (My ward does, but in the US I think the number of kids in Primary tends to be much larger.) Have you talked to the parents of other kids in his class? What do they say?

If you can't work on it from the teacher's side, as I suggested in my other post -- and this should really be the thing to do; but I got the sense from your post that his teacher and the Primary presidency are all saying that there's nothing that can be done, and they aren't willing to call you to a calling that would let you be able to help? -- I wonder also if it's possible to work on coping mechanisms with him... if he gets bored, maybe he can make up his own story that illustrates the lesson. Or see how many scriptures he can think of in his head that fit the lesson. Or whatever. I mean, he might then get a reputation as the kid who is daydreaming, but that's better than the kid who is acting out

Does he behave in Primary proper? Does he like Singing Time or Sharing Time?

I think this is it, they do a lot of colouring in based craft which DS7 has never been into. So it is not that his teachers have not been making the effort, it's just that he does not appreciate activities that the other kids are happy with. Then the curriculum is a two year curriculum repeated from age 4-7, most of which is simple values and church teachings, or scripture stories he has read multiple times. The material will change next year when he is 8 so I am hoping he will participate again then if not this year. This year his class of 7 year olds has been grouped with the 8-12 year olds for the combined part, but as he is now refusing to go he doesn't even know if he likes it or not.


We are in Australia.

He sees one friend outside church occasionally and used to look forward to seeing this child at church which did help a lot before. They are still good friends but it is no longer enough to make him want to go to class. He happily plays outside with the other children after church, if we stick around, but I am often stressed by his behaviour and just want to get home.

I can't be called as a teacher as we are meant to be in another ward since we moved out of this one, but neither DS or I have friends in the other ward. Also I would not be up to the task at all. I know I wouldn't be able to do the job myself so I am not complaining about his teachers at all, it is DS who just does not fit in with the class/program. I used to help in his class when he was 4, he was already a challenge then but his teacher was amazing that year in keeping him engaged. I found I was a help with another child but DS acted out more when I was there in class. He behaves in Sacrament as I let him read books after the Sacrament has been passed, but he currently refuses to go to any of Primary. I tried giving his teachers some insight about DS after he was tested as HG at 5 and I was all overwhelmed by it all...didn't go down well .

Do you see this as an issue due to giftedness (your ds)? In that case, connecting with other kids in general is something that might be difficult across the board. Are there issues at school as well?

Agreed with the above, we experienced the same thing with our eldest DS. He always looked at the coloring and "fun" activities as busy work (the same as word searches at public school)

In his 5th-8th grade years I volunteered as a SS teacher. I found that the way the material was presented was on average boring and simplistic for the majority of the students. I spoke with the SS Superintendent (a former public school teacher) about looking into using different curriculum, though I don't think that ever came about.

The problem extended into confirmation classes in the middle school years. The breadth and depth just wasn't there, especially after the first year. I spoke with the Pastor who taught the class about differentiation, he quickly dismissed the idea. I understand that God's word is appropriate education for all, however, the Pastor failed to understand that breadth and depth in teaching it needs to change in order to keep different abilities engaged just as it needs to with adults. Eventually both our sons moved to the Youth Group (HS Bible Study) and when they became bored there I gave them the option of attending adult Bible study with me.

I think the lesson here is that we have a difficult enough time trying to get institutions that have teachers and administrations with degrees or advanced degrees in education to understand the needs of gifted / highly gifted children, it stands to reason then that hoping that an institution with a mostly volunteer staff and few or no degrees in education isn't going to either.

As parents who both understand the special needs of our children best and wish them to be educated in the religion of our choice, it's up to us to ensure that education is provided, even if that means unconventional means (children in adult Bible study, home study, etc.) Just like with other aspects of a GT child's education, we do what we have to in order to keep them engaged and learning, that often means special accommodations few understand, perhaps including clergy.

In response to the other thread, I locked this one because I have had to shut down 90% of the threads in the past that veered off into religion/politics and probably jumped the gun a bit. I am re-opening it, but will delete posts that get off topic and will not hesitate to ban members if they get disrespectful.

Regards,
Mark

My kids are lucky that through a quirk of fate about half the kids in their Sunday School class are hg at least.

Thank you, Mark.

Well said, Old Dad.

Our DS very much disliked the Sunday School projects, songs, the jolly chaos, and the sweet, happy messages. He happily joined adult worship at age 5 and has been enjoying it in the years since.

mumofone, good luck finding a way to share your religion and religious community with your son. Let us know how it goes!

Also LDS here and in South Africa. My 7 year old has learnt to just deal with the classes and then saves all his tricky conversations/questions up and books interviews with various other adult ward members who will sit and talk to him.

My 5 year old (November) has this exact same problem as yours. Last year it got so bad he asked to homeschool Primary. He was coming into my classes to find me up to 20 times each week. Eventually I sat with him and I could see the problem immediately. The Primary President suggested putting him into the next class up - but it didn't work as the kids there and the teacher made him feel even worse with snarky comments etc.

This year he has a lovely teacher (his regular class) and I sat in the first lesson and then chatted to her. I was just open and honest with her and she expressed excitement in having him in her class and asked for recommendations on how to help him feel more connected with the class and more included. I gave her some and am preparing some printed out stuff to take to her this coming Sunday.

I have already spoken to the Bishop and mentioned that I am happy to be called as a teacher to teach him (and I said that I would gladly teach any other kids currently unwilling to attend their classes).

I have the January issue with Dylan, who will be 3 on the 21st Jan. He is expected to remain in Nursery till next year, but he is starting to read and write now already. He is enjoying being the big kid for now, but I am not sure how long this will be a viable solution for.

I have to say that we have started taking the Primary lessons and building it into our homeschooling and Family Home Evening lessons for more in-depth discussions. It seems to work well for now and it means that if they just want to see Sunday as a big jolly social event then that is fine too.

I don't really have solutions to offer - just wanted to share our story and say that I hear you and understand.

I guess my big thing here is... is he getting anything out of the class? I mean, if he already knew the material but was enjoying the happy-fun-crafty-chaos aspect (I can see my 5 y/o reacting this way), then he'd be getting something out of it. If he weren't exactly having fun, but was learning something new, then he'd be getting something out of it. If he's just going to go, not to learn anything new and not to enjoy himself, then I guess it's a parental decision as to whether it's worth it on a spiritual/religious requirement level.

Granted, I don't know much about the LDS faith or religious structure, but it seems like religious education should up a child's (a) knowledge, (b) faith, or (c) happiness (preferably all three). If it's not doing any of the three for a given child, and it's just a requirement because it's a requirement, then I'd probably be more swayed by the kid's argument and find some kind of alternate arrangement for the year (assuming that's "allowed," again I have no knowledge of the bureaucratic processes involved). What does the church do when a child is cognitively delayed to a point where regular religious education classes aren't working? There has to be some kind of precedent...