Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy is intervention here "helicoptering?" Or not?

You are between a rock and a hard place - and there is an upside and downside to choosing to speak up now or later. Really feel for you in this one.

If it were me, I'd probably call the group, let them know your child told you about the phone call and ask to speak who called your child. I'd approach it as helpful - is there any more info you needed, etc., all the while sowing the seeds of things like, " while I'm sure disabilities would never be part of the determining factors in your selection, I do very much appreciate your proactive approach to determining the needs for accomodations, but rest assured .... "

ABQmom, that's what I'm thinking, too-- and I can in fact make that phone call fairly casual because I have another handy excuse for calling.

If I involve a lawyer, then they'll hunker down and go all defensive/CYA. That's why I really don't want to come across as "aggressive" over this. BTDT.

HK, I agree with ABQMom that the strongest messaging I would pursue at this point would be inquisitive and cautionary. The agency may well be interested in your daughter and be verifying facts/doing due diligence. I agree that the particular line of questioning used would be questionable in any hiring setting, and disentangling discrimination from legitimate interest is difficult, if not impossible, when such questions are asked.

Some agencies have an ethics ombudsman. If this one does, you might wish to go on record and file a notice of the call. You're in a tough asymmetric information position, but I think going strongly on the offensive at this point would cause more damage than good.

I would definitely take this as an opportunity to educate your daughter on the perception of disabilities. It's unfair that this is the case, but I think your daughter would have been in a less risky position if she provided a more general explanation for her business without referencing disabilities, with further elaboration as needed for accommodations after hiring decisions were made. We live in an unfair world, and I would much rather see your daughter get the job AND have the opportunity to advocate change.

Just my $0.02.

I'd add that to the letter if you write one: I don't want to be writing to anyone about this problem, yet I feel as though this person's actions have left me with no choice.

Okay-- in talking with DD about this phone call in a more inquisitorial fashion, several things have emerged.

1. She's pretty sure that the person she spoke with never gave her a name. Only identified themselves as "with {program}."

2. Definitely took notes "to pass along to mentors."

That means that unless they flag those notes as "disability" then they WILL be used as selection criteria.

DD feels awful; like an ignorant little kid, in spite of me pointing out that I've seen ADULTS get themselves into this kind of situation, too, and that as soon as she explained severity, the term "disability" should have come up-- and it very definitely did not, which was not her fault at all.

It's not realistic to expect our 2e kids to be able to advocate for themselves as if they were us (that is, experienced, savvy adults). I'm annoyed that my DD13 was placed into a position for that to have been required of her. Frankly, this is a challenging scenario even for a pretty clever parent advocate to negotiate well.

I'll also add, here, that my DD has no real need for us to educate her about how others see her in the context of her disability. Unfortunately, she's had ample life experience there.

DD knew as soon as I said "I'd like to ask you about that phone call" what the implications were.

She put her head down and said "I'm so stupid. I shouldn't have answered some of her questions, should I? She sounded so helpful, though-- and I didn't want to seem rude."

I cleared my strategy with her-- that is, call the program office re: this other little thing that we need to let them know about, and then ask some questions about this earlier phone call... like WHO made the call, wow, how nice that they are so concerned... would it be helpful for them to have some of the accommodation information contained in her 504 plan...

just want to make sure that this information isn't going to be used as part of selection criteria...

I don't envy the position you and DD have been put in. You're right that most adults wouldn't know how to navigate such questions.

Knowing that a contractor did this changes my opinion on what you should do here.

As you noted, the questions were illegal under federal law. As I see it, there are two main problems here:

1. Your DD may be affected negatively because the contractor broke the law.

2. Others may also be harmed. The contractor organization may have already fished for this information with other people.

Personally, I think you need to decide on a course of action and act on it. I recommend writing to the organization sponsoring the internships, with a CC to the University. Ignore the contractor people this woman works for. Let them find out about it when they get unhappy phone calls or emails from whoever pays them.

If I was writing the letter and if this situation is as egregious as it sounds (I don't know all the details...), I'd be firm and not at all apologetic. I would bluntly inform them that their contractor had broken the law (cite it; chapter and verse; cite specific questions your daughter was asked and state that answers were written down. Detail is key here.). Ask if they sanction the contractor's actions and if this is a general approach to hiring. Tell them you expect to be told what they plan to do about it.

I understand that you don't want to be seen as a helicopter parent, but you aren't being a helicopter parent. Someone broke the law (by apparently exploiting the naivté of a child) and you are right to question it. You are probably not the only person who's been affected by this.

This approach puts 100% of the blame on someone else and will therefore be more likely to be resolved quickly in your favor.

We have not been through a similar situation yet, but my son wants to know more about what he should say regarding his disability when he applies for jobs in the future. We are wondering how much ADA would really help him avoid discrimination and if it would be best to hide the fact that he has a disability. I thought I could wait a while before looking for answers to his questions about this but your story made me realize that we can't. He needs to know how to handle situations like this now.

HK, this is a *really* tough situation to be put in - honestly, no matter what the call had been about, I would have been annoyed at best if a call had been made to my 13-year-old without my knowing about it. My own 13 year old recently had an *email* inquiry re a detail on a summer camp application - but I was cc'd as his parent and I would expect, at 13, to be still in the loop re this type of communication.

I honestly don't know what I'd do in this situation, but I agree with Val that a letter to the organization actually running the camp is the right thing to do.


qxp, as the parent of a child with life-threatening allergies, unfortunately my past experiences supporting my child would lead me to react and suspect in exactly the same way HK has. It's true - many people do not view allergies as either a disability, or more seriously, many people do not really understand that they are real and people can become seriously ill and possibly die from them. I'll be honest, it's just been my experience that when questions like this come back, chances are good the intent *is* to deny admission, or at the very least make sure that the organization hiring feels comfortable that they wouldn't be putting either the child or themselves at risk if she attends.

I apologize for being a bit jaded on this, but I've heard some things said by other parents and by people in charge of children's programs that I think would make most parents of kids who don't have medical challenges get absolutely *riled* about if they ever personally experienced it. It's not fair at all, but it is something that exists out there. My dd11, like HK's daughter, has also been exposed to things like this and is very aware not all adults take allergies seriously or want to make simple accommodations or want to deal with having a child with allergies participate.

HK, good luck to your dd - I hope she is accepted into the program!

polarbear