Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments School shopping

DH and I are thinking of buying a new house and we are looking at different school options as a part of our decision. It is difficult to figure out what might be a good fit because our boys are young (5 and 2). It seems like the typical advice of "talk to other parents" is not as helpful when you have a kid that might need something different than the standard classroom.

This is what we know about our kids so far. DS5 had an EG level WPPSI in the spring. He is doing well early entranced in private half day kindergarten. I am starting to think it isn't a normal kindergarten too. This week he brought home a spelling test, a math test (single digit addition), and his life science vocabulary and diagram of spider parts (including among other things the abdomen, cephalothorax, pedipalps, chelicera, spinnerets and exoskeleton). We have some concerns he might be dyslexic but at this time there is no diagnosis. He also started EPGY a few weeks ago and has made it about a quarter of the way through first grade math. DS2 seems about like his brother so at this point we are going with what works for our oldest will probably work for the younger one.

Anyone have recommendations on what to look for and how to weed through information on a school district to figure out how they would likely treat a kid like ours?

I am also interested in what parents of older kids would recommend. We would probably be staying in this house through our kids' school years.

Of course I am well aware that long range planning can only be based on current programs which could be cut at anytime.

(While writing this, DS5 has made a giant spider web in his room with masking tape and dental floss. Assorted action figures have been caught and are awaiting their doom)

We did this. I suggest you look to see if their gifted program is a pull-out enrichment or if they have all the gifted kids together for class. For example, the first district we were in had a pull-out enrichment program where the gifted kids went for 2/12 hours a week in 3rd grade. Where we moved, the kids were grouped with a gifted teacher for math for 90 minutes and a gifted teacher for Enligh/Social Studies for 2/12 hours, every day. Kids could qualify for one or the other or both. The math did two years of math per grade level so that the kids are ready for Algebra I in 7th grade. Only one of the disticts we looked at started full-time gifted programming in kindergarten - the rest didn't start until 3rd grade (but since we were already in 3rd at a private school, it didn't matter). Here, in Texas, though they have to be identified in Kindergarten whereas in some places the identification doesn't happen until 3rd grade.

The enrichment in the first district was a study of China one year, ancient Greece one year, the Civil War, etc. I think by 6th grade they were up to 4 hours a week of "enrichment", when the gifted teacher wasn't pulled off her classes to do testing or substituting or bus duty or whatever.

Also, look at the testing that the district does to identify gifted kids. One district we looked at took kids at the 90th percentile and above. Our current district takes kids at the 97th percentile and above. There's a big difference.

Make sure that the gifted program starts in elementary school. We looked at a lot of places where the program was excellent but didn't start until middle school (7th grade). I'd also ask about what happens if you want to take a break from gifted programming. Do you have to requalify to get back in? Or can you take a furlough and move in and out of the program without having to requalify? Our district does the latter, which helped us last year in 6th grade when there was concern that my son was not mature enough to do the gifted reading. So, we took a break from it and moved him back in this year. (Turns out that was a mistake, but we had the option without the pressure of taking another test to qualify.)

I don't know what to recommend as far as tests go. Our first district narrowed the field with the CoGat and then followed up with the ITBS. I've read that the CoGat isn't a good identifier and that the ITBS is only good if it is out of level, but I don't know for sure. For our new district, we used outside testing so he hasn't been tested by the school.

Visit the schools and observe the classrooms. Are they kids sitting down and "listening" or are they up and interactive? Is there an atmosphere of discipline with flexibilty or is it rigid and structured. Many gifted kids need to be able to stand up while they do math or sit on the floor and read (even in middle school, our gifted English teacher has bean bags in her classroom where the kids can read).

Talk to the superintendent to see how on board he/she is with supporting a gifted program. I did this and one waved off the question. One told me in detail how he has two daughters, a neice, and a nephew in the gifted program. That told me a lot - that he was invested in it, he believed in giftedness, and he would support it. If you get "all children are gifted", say thank you and run.

Hope some of that helps. It is a hard decision but can make a real difference.

Thanks petunia, these are great suggestions and the exact reason I came here looking for ideas on how to approach this.

We are currently in a district with a third through sixth half day per week pull out. It is only enrichment. There is nothing for junior high students and I have never heard anyone say anything good about the local high school.

Our top choices right now include the following:

District A: Lots of community support for the schools and plenty of smart kid friendly enrichment programs at school like science club, chess, lego club, etc. Gifted kids get their own curriculum plan but there is no grouping. Differentiation is in the classroom. I have heard from another parent that subject acceleration is no problem and that while they don't have a program for gifted kids, they are flexible.

District B: This one seems to understand gifted issues more than the other. There is a self-contained program for grades 2-6 and a gifted magnet junior high. There is also an gifted mentor at each school to help make curriculum adjustments for gifted kids who are not in the self-contained program. There is a snippet on their website that their program seeks to serve a student population with different needs and that the program isn't necessarily for the highest achieving students. There is even a part addressing the gifted underachiever and gifted students as "at risk" for underachievement and dropping out if they are not given an appropriate education. The only real red flag for this one is they specifically state there is no consideration of outside testing in either the initial application or an appeal. They use the CogAt and ITBS. I know of one disgruntled parent who thought their kid should qualify but didn't. I don't know the kid or the parent that well so I am not sure how much that matters.

Testing data for option A v. option B has A way ahead. The community that feeds into option A is much more educated/affluent and most students are going to be from homes that stress academic achievement. Almost every option A high school student graduates and attends college. Option B has a more average spread.

We are in an affluent, high achieving district. If you just looked at the gifted offerings, you would head elsewhere. However, this district and the two neighboring districts have good, rigorous courses in HS, and over 90% of kids go to four year colleges.

Math is not even part of our gifted program; math differentiation starts in 5th and is based upon testing. There is advanced math in 5th grade, then students test again at the end of 5th. All students take math ERBs. If they score well on the ERBs, they are in advanced math (one year ahead). If they score really well on ERBs, then they take the Iowa. If they score well on the Iowa, then they are two years advanced.

There are plenty of enrichment opportunities as well - clubs, competitions, etc. I would say that elementary and even middle school may be boring for the gifted kid, but HS offers some great courses. Gifted is just some pull-out programs, and those seem to start and stop at random times during the year.

However, I suggest you look ahead to the HS years. While there may not be much in the way of gifted offerings, as others have noted on these boards, see how many National Merit Semifinalists (NMSF) there are each year. In our district, this year there are 24 (which is 8% of the class). I took a quick look at the college choices for the 2012 class, and there are at least 12 that went to Ivies and plenty of others went to top ranked schools (class size is 300 students).

My point is that even if the gifted program doesn't look so great, if there are lots of bright/gifted kids in the district, your kids will have friends at or near their level. While a stronger gifted program might help the kids in this district, they seem to do just fine. Lots of top students here are very engaged in a lot of extra curricular activities. I know that plenty of the kids here knew all the kindergarten stuff before they went to school, but very few are grade skipped. It may be tough to look beyond the elementary years, but I suggest you make sure that the HS is strong; a great elementary program is useless if the HS program is weak (and you don't plan to move again).

Well your private Kindy is DEFINITELY not the norm....my ds would LOVE to study spiders! I can give no great advice as we have poor gifted programs in elementary. The programs get much stronger in middle school with a plethora of AP in HS, but it's hard to look that far ahead part dismal early offerings.

The programs available to high schoolers at both options are the same. There are honors, AP and this:

http://www.k12.wa.us/SecondaryEducation/CareerCollegeReadiness/RunningStart.aspx

I think the difference is going to be that in the high achieving district there will be a greater percentage of students working to get into top universities. There will parent support for challenging options. While it isn't a "everyone is gifted" mentality, the message is that almost every student in the district is capable of high achievement with hard work.

The flip side being that option B is a larger district that seems to identify gifted kids early and group them together. So a gifted kid could have roughly the same classmates from 2-9. Presumably they would make some friends during that time with whom they could navigate the high school options.

KJP,

I was in your shoes for a few years. Our DDs old school does not offer much of differentiation. Gifted program has pull out 3-4 hrs a week for probably 20 weeks in a year. When we look for different school districts, there was one with all schools (elementary to high school) exemplary rating which is very rare in Texas. It's exactly like your district A. It's in very affluent neighborhood and if you are not IN crowd, the school life could be difficult.

The other school district offers great Gifted programs with acceleration on all identified kids. (3-4 hrs a day for both Math and Reading in elementary, TAG or accelerated classes in Middle school and AP, dual enrollment in High school. They have different economic background and ethnicity as well. We decided with the latter. We wanted our kids to see the diversity, help or be helped during their school years and it will be their lesson in life.

I second NSG. Choosing High school is more important. You can supplement when they are up to 5th grade at home but yo ucan not supplement much when they start Middle and High School because of their (loads of )homework.

We are happy with our decision and I am sure you will be too.

Personally, I wouldn't count on just supplementing outside of school. If your child continues to test in the EG range, then even the first couple of years of sitting in a class listening to teachers repeat everything ten times could lead to a seriously jaded and/or under-achieving outcome.

Option B sounds much more appealing, the differentiated instruction may be more geared towards the intellectually gifted over the high achieving. You EG child may only need to hear something once to learn it; an average high achieving student may still need simpler explanations with high repetitions. Also, in option B you may be welcomed as an advocating parent trying to look out for their gifted child rather than just another parent trying to push the school for their high achiever.

But everyone has their own read on things and their children, and I've located in a very large district that "gets" gifted. and my DS6 is in a magnet school more resembling your option B.

I recommend that you also ask if the district will qualify for the gifted classes with your outside testing. Some will, some won't.

Another thing to look at is intellectual peers. It sounds like that would be hard for EG son to find at Option A. It really makes a huge difference being in class with kids who "get it" than with kids who need repetition. And, your child is going to need other kids to challenge him and talk to him about stuff he wants to talk about.

Personally, I would jump at Option B. Meet with the gifted coordinator and show her/him your WPPSI testing and see if that would qualify him. Get a feel for the program. See how interested she is in having your son.

Please keep in mind that being gifted does not necessarily relate to being a high achiever. Many gifted kids are B students, not because they are not intellectually capable but because the work can slow them down or they don't see a point in doing it or it's something they master three years ago. In my experience, highly gifted kids (in general) don't care much about grades. High achievers do.

I would rent if the right public school is your priority. When things change, as they will, you can move.