Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Pls. Advice Needed-Principal kicked me out office!

I would really appreciate any advice! My DS is 9 1/2 in fourth grade. His school/district does not have a gifted program. In first grade we did outside testing which did 2 nationally accepted standardized IQ tests and he tested in superior gifted range (I have the report but don't need to go into details yet). His previous school (K-2) didn't do much for him enrichment wise, just put him in the advanced math class which is really two classes of twenty kids each, working at a faster pace. He's always been in advanced math (the kids take a pre-test for each unit; Everyday Math is used). A few days ago he came home and said for the first time ever, he's not in extended math. He said it was way too easy for him, that the teacher asked what is 12 minus 7 and no one raised their hands. He was very upset. That same day he told me his teacher is very nice but that she doesn't like him. He said he has been getting in trouble all the time, that he's been blurting out stuff, sometimes criticizing other's kids' responses because he wants to show her that he is smart (though this has just been annoying her, the opp of his intent.) Anyway, the next day after he spoke to me my husband and I dropped by the principal's office because we were upset and my DH happened to be home during the day b/c he had just come home from a business trip. The principal said he could talk just for a few minutes and we should meet next week. But we started talking, kind of heatedly, we didn't even sit down, and the principal said he trusted his team, that the school did really well with the ISATs so they are doing something right. My DH said something like "that doesn't help the needs of a gifted child." The principal said, "Every child in this school is gifted." Both my DH and myself got upset, and started questioning that statement. The principal said he never changes a child's placement. I then questioned him, saying that he changed the teacher placement of a child at a parent's request (and named the parent) this year. He then said, "Is that what this is about? Get out of my office. This meeting is over." Then he sent an email saying I couldn't meet with the teacher Monday morning as I'd planned, not without him, so we now have a meeting planned for Tuesday, in a few days. The meeting was out of control. But I want to get back to a place where I'm advocating for my child, if that is at all possible. In the meantime, I've always felt that the advanced math class is not challenging enough for my child, but he has enjoyed being in it. Now to find that the one enrichment that has been offered is off the table for this unit, is upsetting. (He made 3-4 mistakes on the pre-test, which they will show me on Tuesday). Any advice???? Math is my DS' strongest area, always been his favorite subject. Also, since school started DS has been saying things like, "My life is a fail." And, "I'm not good at anything." TIA!

Yikes. I am sorry. I think you need to go today, immediately, and get the book From Emotions to Advocacy. They should have it at Barnes and Noble. And then, no matter what happens at the meeting, you cannot lose your cool, because that is not helping your son. You can certainly assertively present your point of view--but you want to be the reasonable (persuasive, persistent) one. The principal sounds horrible. There are some great responses to the "every child is gifted" argument out there if you google.

I am sure others will have more advice. Good luck.

Is this public or private? If this is public, is gifted recognized as a special education qualification in your state?

It is easy to let our emotions run rampant, and it sounds like this principal is not going to be easy to deal with. But having a good base of knowledge about your rights as a parent and about your child's rights will help you advocate more from facts instead of emotion.

If this is public school, and if your state does recognize gifted under the special education qualifications, make sure you have a letter drafted that requests your child be placed in an appropriate environment based on the recent testing and include copies of the tests. They don't have to accept outside testing, but it should be enough to require them to start their own testing process if they won't accept your results. But all that depends on the laws and requirements of your state and whether the school is public or private.

And do get the book recommended above - it's great.

I'm so sorry. Are you in NJ? My 2 kids were exceptionally gifted for years until we moved here a few months ago. Now they are not even 'highly able,' and I too have been asked to leave the premises of the school on occasion. The principal told me that NJ is just more rigorous than the rest of the country (we came from the backwater of a Chicago private gifted school). I'm going to get the book recommended by deacongirl so I can keep up the facade for my kids that all is well while we continue what has turned into months of very expensive litigation while we explain what 'multiple measures' and 'ongoing assessment' means. It is hard to explain the nuances of the law to those who think most students are above average for the district. They told me that 'labels don't matter,' ie, that differentiated instruction is enough and I shouldn't worry about it, but it isn't; when a gifted child is bored and is denied services, school performance suffers. Unfortunately the work that the kid rejects and which isn't perfect is then used as Exhibit A for why the kid isn't gifted. Plus my oldest has started describing herself as a big flunkie and a dummie now that she's not in the top program.
I scream every day.
Good luck.

I've found that whenever I'm upset about school, the very best thing for me to do is to cool off and really think through my goals and how to achieve them before going in. I don't know everything that led up to your confrontation with the principal on Monday, but I do see a few things that probably didn't help in what you've written. I am not sure I understand why you went directly to the principal first instead of the teacher after your ds talked to you - unless you've already addressed this with the teacher and tried to work it through her. Just dropping in to meet with the principal almost never works in our schools - principals are busy folks with lots of meetings and demands on their time, so setting up a meeting ahead of time usually works best to guarantee you'll have time to be heard, plus it helps to give the principal a head's up on what you want to talk about rather than surprising him/her with something they haven't had time to think through. The last thing is - if your ds is blurting out in class and making rude remarks about other children's answers, that's not acceptable behavior - no matter *how* smart he is, and it's also something you're gong to need to work together with your ds on to be sure he understands that and learns how to advocate for himself in a more positive way.

Re what to do now - I think you're actually in a semi-ok place - you have a meeting scheduled with the principal and teacher on Tuesday - that's not too far away, but far enough away you have time to think through how to approach the meeting, gather your data, and prepare to go in with an attitude of working together.

I'll second the suggestion to find a copy of "From Emotions to Advocacy" and also look at the wrightslaw website.

I would also, today, think through exactly what you want for your son, what our goals are for this fall in his classroom, with curriculum etc. Once you have that list, gather all the data that you have that supports your request. For instance, if you want math acceleration, be sure you are aware of what the options are. Then when you know what option you want to advocate for, gather whatever you have that shows your ds is capable and ready for that option. I may be in the minority on suggesting this, but I wouldn't rely on IQ as a number that is going to be meaningful *on it's own* in a subject-acceleration request, and my experience has been that school staff usually aren't impressed by parents throwing around high IQ numbers. What's worked best for us are achievement tests that are directly correlated to the curriculum (state testing or classroom assessments or end-of-year testing) rather than achievement tests such as Woodcock Johnson etc. If you've done any after-schooling, you can show work samples or tests completed there.

Once you have your list of goals and supporting data, make a game plan for how you want to present it at the meeting, and think through possible objections on the part of the school - and come up with responses for each. Practice going through it all. When you're at the meeting, stick to your plan and don't let your emotions run wild.

If you find yourself losing your cool at the meeting, stop the meeting. Agree to meet again later but don't let it devolve if there's no way you can control your upset. If you can keep your cool and still the meeting's going nowhere, what you need to do is to simply listen, politely disagree, and then know that you will be following up with a next step in advocating for your child's needs after the meeting. You *want* to accomplish your goals at this meeting but there is usually a point at which it becomes apparent that no amount of begging/pleading/arguing is going to achieve that - at this moment in time - so that's the place that it's better to politely let go - for *today* - and go home to regroup without burning huge bridges.

After the meeting, if you haven't achieved your goals and it appears hopeless for this year, regroup. Think longer term. What are your goals for your ds' placement for middle school? What do you need to do to get him there?

Hope some of that is helpful - I feel your frustration.

polarbear

I did send an email first to the teacher. And she responded in a nice way, saying she understood my concerns and let's meet next week but that he made 3 mistakes on the pre-test for that unit. She cc'd her response to the principal, bringing him into the conversation. Also, at the end of last year I had concerns that my DS wasn't being challenged (he wasn't selected to go to this pull-out in the second half of the year for LA enrichment, though he loved it the one time he was pulled out, and the teacher who ran it said how enthusiastic he was) so I met with the principal, so I felt we had some kind of relationship established since we discussed DS' needs and he said that it was important, for DS' motivation to learn, to be with like-minded kids this year......

Polarbear has tons of good advice. I'll just add a bit. From what you've said, this school regularly pretests for changes placement accordingly. This sounds pretty reasonable. Will your child be able to move up again for the next unit? If so, you will have to make a good case for why your kiddo needs to move up now. Are the things missed on the pretest things that can quickly be explained to your kiddo, or just a matter of terminology he forgot or simple mistakes? If the majority of the unit will be material he already knows, it doesn't seem fair to make him sit through the whole thIng again, not learning anything new.

Also, don't forget to write down a summary of what was said at the meeting and email everyone with a summary of what you believe were the next steps.

I once brought "peace donuts" to a meeting after a heated discussion with staff, apologizing for starting off on the wrong foot and asking of we could start over. That helped. In your situation, I would start by apologizing to the principal for catching him unawares and without a scheduled meeting.

I very much agree that you need to discuss appropriate classroom behavior with your kiddo. It does seem that he is trying to show what he knows, but he needs to learn to do this by the class rules.

Also agree that most teachers will respond only to tests they are familiar with, and will ignore IQ tests. You may have better luck with the school psychologist if you want someone to get those other scores, but truthfully they are more familiar with the other end of the spectrum. If there is a procedure in the school or the district for acceleration, get to know it. Good luck!

Well, you've successfully agitated the educational bureaucracy.

Basically, you triggered the immune response where you have gotten yourself tagged as a "threat to the system".

The first step is let things settle down.

You need to figure out a good apology per St. Pauli girl above.

We in a North Shore suburb. Please PM me. What private gifted school were you children enrolled in? I think it's an issue of public vs private. Were you happy with the gifted school? Was it Quest or Arts and Sciences?

UGH. I hate this idea that teachers have that kids who are gifted won't make mistakes. Talk about fostering the debilitating sense of perfectionism that many g/t kids struggle with. Grrr. The teacher and the principal need to be educated.

I might not be reading thoroughly, but did you mention if your child has an IQ test under his belt? Some sort of documentation of his intellectual potential (not his ability to do work without mistakes) might help you advocate better.