Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school gifted identification of a 15 month old

My husband and I were both labeled gifted in high school. I went on to earn a PhD, and he ended up becoming a classical guitarist. We are familiar with IQ tests and the gifted label, but only in people of school age.

We are fairly certain that our fifteen month old is gifted. He knows and can clearly pronounce more than 100 words, can identify in other words six letters of the alphabet, can count to three, and can identify by sight at least two numbers. He asks to read all the time, has a very long attention span, especially at musical performances, has spoken his first sentence ("I see a deer"), tells me when he needs to go to the bathroom (he is still in diapers, though). He can transfer knowledge from objects on a page to ones in real life (ex.he sees a picture of a zebra in a book and can correctly point out and say "zebra" at the zoo). And the list goes on and on.

Are there tests or other types of evaluative tools that we could use to more accurately determine if he is gifted? It matters a great deal to me in particular because I want to make sure that he gets enough enrichment and that I can help him with his emotional needs, which were overlooked in me, unfortunately.

Any help at all on this issue will greatly be appreciated.

Smurlene

Hello! My son is almost three, and I know what you mean when you say you want to help your son with the areas that were overlooked in your own childhood. I started looking for information on giftedness about a year ago, and found www.hoagiesgifted.org and then Deborah Ruf's 5 Levels of Giftedness to be very helpful. SENG is an organization dedicated to "supporting the emotional needs of the gifted" www.sengifted.org so you might want to check that out too. This forum is also a great place for ideas and resources. I read the preschool section from oldest to newest when I first found this place, and that was probably more educational than any book I could have bought.

As for "enough enrichment," I'd just follow his lead and go as deep into his favorite subjects as he wants to. Also, keeping safety in mind of course, you might not want to pay too close attention to the age limits on toys, but just find things you think he'd enjoy. This link gives a good general overview of some signs of early giftedness (a milestone comparison chart) and some ideas for enrichment.

There are no such tools. He's way too young for you to be concerned with such things. You don't need assessment results to buy books and toys for him, do you? Just do whatever occurs to you to stimulate his interest.

The list of the world's geniuses who didn't have academic supports in place at one year old is a quite long one. Relax.

I don't think you really need to test them at that age, or worry about enrichment... just follow their lead.

My DD(now 9) didn't say a word until 24 months but at 16 months knew the entire alphabet (you could ask for a letter and she'd point to it). This was because she was chasing me with books from 9-10 months on. I never "enriched" her - she enriched me, lol. Her comprehended vocab was insane. You ask her anything and she'd point to it.

I never enriched her. She came after me. Asking with her eyes - that intense, relentless stare. Books, objects, you name it - she'd point and look expectantly at me until I gave her a label for whatever she was pointing at. On and on and on. (I used to hide in the bathroom sometimes and say "go see Daddy for a minute!!") Not even kidding.

Anyway, just sit with your son, watch him, and let him ask you what he wants to learn. And have fun

One thing about being aware early of just what trajectory the kid is on is if you want to plan for life accomodations to adapt to his needs. Like moving to an area with great gifted programs (and highly gifted programs,) or getting into a situation where home schooling is feasible. Or even researching a pre-school context that won't stifle.

I found the Ruf Estimates to be interesting for at least a thumbnail sketch:
http://www.talentigniter.com/ruf-estimates

That's more what I was thinking of, Zen. I want to be as prepared as possible for his future. OUr plan at this point is to send him to the private school in our neighborhood. I have been reading about the Ruf Estimates. Thanks for posting the link.

And thanks, Somerdai and Luconu. That's what I have been doing all along. He surprises me at every turn with his interests and knowledge. I just don't want to miss an opportunity to help him.

Good point, Zen Scanner. I just think that while it's fun to wonder, there is no accurate assessment possible at that age. I don't think that such early milestones warrant moving anywhere, etc. because they're so inaccurate as an assessment tool (and I think the Ruf Estimates are hokum). But of course identification in the early years is an ongoing process, and you have to use the best info you've got at every stage, which early on will just tend to be on the less precise side.

In the OP's case, I'd say that there's a good chance, though no certainty, that her little one is gifted to some degree based on genetics and the early milestones. Just how gifted is simply impossible to know. She can't get early access to services based on her hunch or the TalentIgniter website. Moving to an area now specifically to get access to an HG+ program or school would be silly, since not only does she not know that her child is HG+, the program or school might be a poor fit for other reasons. Homeschooling can be done anywhere, but it's too early and unnecessary to plan to homeschool at this age as well.

Ditto to everything lucounu mentioned. I'll also add that moving for a program that's a great program *now*, even if your child will eventually qualify for it - doesn't guarantee it will be a great program 2-3 years from now. We've seen school programs in our district change quite a bit simply from principals moving around or from ideology changing or from budget cuts.

I truly believe that the best way we can support our children when they are very young (whether they are PG or MG or not gifted at all) is to follow their lead - explore their interests, take them on hikes, spend time with them playing whatever they want to play, take them to museums, talk to them, read to them, just be with them. Enjoy them!!!

Best wishes,

polarbear

See if you have a Music Together class in your area. It was fun for our family at that age.

I've been here since my daughter was 4 months old *blushes*
I know it is kind of silly, but at the check-up they said she was one of the most advanced 4 month olds they'd ever seen. My daughter was similar at 16 months with the letters, etc.(she's now only 21 months) Instead of speaking, though, she went nuts with sign language and learned all the signs on the 30 signing dvds we bought her. We didn't have any more signs after that. She's just now starting to try to use her words, instead of just signs.

Anyway, I get why you are thinking about this. I have learning activities for my lo, and she loves working on them. I look at the skills she's currently working on and then I provide specific activities that she can do - but that actually challenge her in that area. It's really rewarding when she asks for them over and over and I see her slowly master them. You might look into Montessori-inspired activities if you want to do things at home.

Oh, and don't worry about labeling him yet. You know he's advanced... just meet him where he's at. Just give lots and lots of love and empathy. When he throws a puzzle piece at you because his fine motor skills aren't up to where his mind is, give him a hug and help him achieve his goal. You can understand and empathize with that frustration.

Thanks so very much!

It is so true about schools! A school four streets over used to be lauded as the best around. In the past few years, it has rapidly declined. Even my public high school, which offered five languages, psychology, ethics, philosophy, microbiology, astronomy, etc., is a pale representation of its former self. Meanwhile, a school not far from here that was once considered a loss cause is now a Blue Ribbon School. That's why we think we are going to stick with the private school. The ratio is 8:1, and they use many Montessori techniques. He will start going a couple of hours a week at 2, then half time at 3, and full time at 4.

We are an incredibly active family. We go to museums, the park, the playground, swimming, and just enjoy life. In fact, we just got back from the zoo, where he fell in love with the llamas. He kept talking about them while we were there. I asked him if he had fun, and he said, "I had a nice day." : )

And music as been central in his life from day one. His father plays classical guitar, and I am a former professional singer. He has seven instruments, and we spend lots of time jamming together.

I understand where you are coming from islandofappples. My son was incredibly alert from the moment he was born. People commented on how "there" he seemed to be. By the time he was six months old, he could say, five words, and would say "hi" and "bye" to everyone. He is about average with motor skills at this point.

I feel so much better after coming here. It sounds like I am doing all that I can for now, and the rest is up to him.

I think the hardest part of having an advanced little one is the lack of peer interaction. Both my children have had a hard time when they were little figuring out how to socialize. I wish that there was a way to do some kind of identification and get the little ones together. I wonder when I am older and the kids grown about starting pre-school weekends or camps and kids from all over could meet each other. (I doubt I will care by then, and I am way to busy now....so its just thoughts) My DD14 has struggled with finding peers all the way through. She attended CTY this summer and felt what it meant to have friends for the first time. Hence she is depressed now...but anyways I think the little ones do need a CTY or Davidson. I think for myself it is the isolation that kind of pushes one to want to obtain testing...somehow a way to reach out and connect. Good Luck.

That really is the story of my life! I grew up very poor. The majority of kids in the gifted program in my county were from middle to upper middle class families. There were so many issues with identification and just finding a way to fit in. The other gifted kids were difficult to relate to. Also, I was the creative one (my PhD is in writing), which made it even harder to connect. I do wish there was a way for my son to find other kids his age with advanced skills. He tries to play with his neighbor, who is a month behind him, but he gets so bored with everything, like water tables, etc. And the other boy is not speaking yet.

Plus, I feel incredibly isolated, like it seems most parents of gifted kids feel, because I cannot really talk about his skills without them getting upset.

I understand where you are coming from. It is a wonderful and exhausting adventure that is a bit lonely. My DS is only 22 months. Same early milestones as others here... walking and first words by 6 months. Now he knows and loves letters, counting, colors, etc. He has taught himself some sight words.

My only advice is to follow his lead, teaching what he wants to learn, and providing opportunities to stretch a bit. Ignore some of the age limits on toys but keep a close eye on safety issues. These forums are great for toy and book suggestions. A kid's piano has been great for us also.

It is nice to find age ranged activities. I second Music Together if you find a good teacher. Kindermusik with its small age bracket did not go well for us. Sigh. Toddler gymnastics has been fantastic.

A word of warning. I am not much further along in this parenting journey but I have been really surprised by other parents. There is definitely negativity from some that you must be doing something horrible to your child if they can count/speak well/read so early ... "Why can't you let him be a kid?" No amount of talking will convince them that your child just loves learning. My child will chase me around the house with a book, saying "Read please!" ... just follow your child and ignore the unsupportive strangers.

I obsess over future planning, preschools, schools, etc because it makes me feel like I may find a good place for all of us. We will probably do a playbased preschool next fall (lol at the how early this seems).

Lately I am focused on trying to find some nice playgroups for the near term. Having a hard time because the kids his age aren't interested in playing with others yet and the older kids aren't nice to him.

Sorry if I made this more about us than you. Just wanted to let you know you are not alone. If you are in Michigan, we'd love to play some time!

Sorry for the rambling post from my phone.

I have already gotten the "lectures" from parents about "making" him learn. As if! He looooves learning all the time. He is a non-stop learning machine. LOL.

We are an incredibly musical household. He has had a full-size keyboard in the living room (secured to a large table) since birth. He also has several guitars (two full-size), a tambourine, drums, xylyphone, etc. He really loves music. His father is a classical guitar player, and I am a singer.

I haven't really found a good group for him yet. I can tell that he is starting to become social, but he is far more interested in the big kids, and like you say, SAHM, they don't know how to deal with him.

So, how do we find other kids like our LOs? People have said to me that he needs to be mainstreamed as much as possible, but I am not sure I agree with that. What do you think? (I am from West Virginia, btw. I wish we lived closer.)

Yeah. (sigh). That used to make me CRAZY... but now I'm kind of numb to it. They simply have no way of understanding so it's not worth our stress...

Finding peers can definitely be difficult. We have had more successful platdates with age peers who have an older sibling (go when they are at home) and with slightly older kids. Try different groups (eg play groups, music, language etc) - especially ones with a larger age bracket. Be prepared though that you may not find anyone like your child or even if you do your child might not like to play with them! I think when they are young we get more hung up about kids needing "friends". DS is not overly fussed and is just as happy at home with the dog. He has this year developed a fairly intense friendship with a boy at kindy. I think being able to relate to a variety of ages/types of people is a great start.
Enjoy the journey as much as possible. It can be isolating. Difficult for people to understand that we are not pushy parents, we are pushed parents! Wouldn't have it any other way (most of the time!)

Yes! Gosh. I feel like I am being pushed. I love it! He is still so young. No tantrums yet.

Tantrums didn't start in our household until DS was 4. Often they occur with tiredness or hunger (preventable) or because he thinks he is an equal with adults. Teenage years are going to interesting...

I was wondering when they might begin. I think I've been lucky here compared to his peers in my Mom's group. He is easy going and can communicate well.

Tonight, another said, after hearing DS talk that he's not gifted, he just happens to like talking like her daughter likes tumbling. Um....

Easy communication makes a huge difference. Alfie Kohn's 'Unconditional Parenting' worked well with DS and also helped reduce tantrums.
We don't say much about DS4 and what he is up to but I will never forget the look on a friend's face when DS at 1 asked clearly for cranberries . I just said " yes he loves those" and moved on!

At 10 months DS was clearly saying "guitar," which made one of my friends very uncomfortable because her five year old could not say it so well. Now, he easily says things he wants, like zucchini and cheese. He hasn't had cranberries yet.

It's strange. My Mom's group (composed of mom's whose babies were born in the same month and year) are usually very supportive, but any time DS language skills come up they either shut down or say things like, "It's just a stage" or "It's just his thing." Sigh....

Thanks for the recommendation. I am amassing quite a list of books.

I try not to discuss DS's advanced things with the other moms unless they ask now. It just works better that way for us.

As for mainstreaming, I think it really depends on the child and what you are hoping to do. I was somewhat mainstreamed in a public school that had pullouts for math and reading. Even with the pullouts, it was too slow and I was miserable. I was also shy. I had friends but learned to essentially turn my brain off in class. My grades were good, I was seemingly well adjusted but miserable.

For my DS, I am looking for a private school for when the time comes that will have small classes and challenge him intellectually. It is not about status, but about being happy with who he is and continuing to love to learn. I have not ruled out homeschooling. This is all a bit premature though as DS is not even 2.

I think mainstreaming is less important now that technology has made the world smaller. A person can find a virtual community or hybrid community (like DYS) for peers now whereas before conforming might have been the only way to avoid loneliness. Although I would say trying to conform to have friends is really very lonely...

It is wonderful that you have so many instruments. DS has been asking for a guitar for a while now. He enjoys his little piano (& I enjoy listening to it.) I was thinking of getting him a 1/4 scale guitar. Smurlene, you mentioned that your DS has 2 full sized guitars. Does he also have a small one? What led you to go with the large ones? Are they all nylon stringed?

Would love any suggestions you could offer.

Thanks!

SAHM....I think we have the same objectives. I want DS to be in a school where he thrives. I want his love for learning to be nurtured. The school I have chosen for him has an 8:1 ratio and multifaceted learning environments.

As for the guitars. My husband is a classical guitars, so we have five or six guitars just hanging around the house. He loves to play them. We have considered getting him his own, smaller guitar, but we haven't looked at them yet. He does have a toy guitar from the Backyardigans that a friend gave him for his 1st birthday. He likes it alot, but of course, it is not like the real thing.

Isn't it fun when they play the piano? DS has a full-size keyboard in the living room that he has been playing with for ages. He is just now starting to really get the hang of singing.

Thank you so much for your support. It means a lot. I feel like I can talk about DS here and no one things I am being a jerk.

I really like reading your posts. :-) It is so nice to find others in the same boat.

It must be wonderful at your house during family music time. What a gift to your son to have such a nice environment.

I am just beginning my search for a guitar for him... am currently considering a jasmine by takamine js141, strunal, or guitarworks. I don't know much about the GW one other than it is a solid spruce top w mahogany and is more budget friendly. All are 1/4 scale nylon strings. I don't have any grand plans... just want something that sounds nice and might survive for a couple years.

I know! What a relief to find this group! I feel so alone sometimes, and he is only 15 months. What will it be like in another year?

There is music here all the time. I am grateful that our whole family loves it.

Thanks for the tips on the little guitars. I am going to check them out online. I really appreciate it.

My 21 month old has been inviting everyone to play with her lately, but the kids her age mainly play side by side, and the older kids mostly completely ignore her like she isn't trying to interact with them. ;-\
It doesn't help that she uses sign language so much. They think she's just a baby.

Yes! My DS keeps introducing himself on the playground. He is a very outgoing kiddo and is down when they dont respond positively. No luck so far.

I have emailed my local GT network and offered to start a local playgroup if any of the members have young children. The group seems targeted toward parents of middle and high schoolers. It is a bit out of my comfort zone but I am trying. If only we had something like New Zealand's Small Poppies...

My DS has been doing the same and they just roll by him. I feel so bad. Some of the older kids are sweet to him, but they run away to play with their own agemates.

It is good you have had some luck with the older ones... my little Guy has gotten reactions ranging from having wood chips dumped on his head to uncalled for screaming at him to go away. All he does is quietly walk up to them and say "hello, my name is X." Hmm... maybe I should find a different park.

Try steering your little ones towards 7/8/9 year old girls. In general they adore playing mother hen to toddlers.