Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments 5yo son still tries to be friends with mean kids

Hello all
My first post here. I have a 5yo who I believe is gifted, not yet been tested by the education system due to shortage of ed psychs. He's been at school for 2 full terms and just started his 3rd term. He seems happy enough, but there is a problem with the friends he is choosing.

I'm wondering if parents of other gifted children have noticed a similar problem and can help with ways of dealing with it.

He's made friends with a couple of boys who are active and gregarious, but who keep excluding him from playing with him. One of them is a bit of a bully, with my son and other kids. But even though he gets upset when he's excluded by them, and when they try to push him around, he still goes back to play with them.

I watched him today following this boy about who is not really reciprocating my son's friendliness and esteem. It is like a puppy dog happily following an indifferent and even hostile other dog around. It breaks my heart to see how he is willing to tolerate such behaviour from so called 'friends'.

But perhaps I'm overreacting. Is this a gifted thing? If it's not really bothering him, maybe I shouldn't let it bother me.

Thanks for any sharing of similar experience.

My DD made friends with an older bully that lived across the street when she was 3. There weren't really any other options for her if she wanted to play with a peer. It wasn't as bad as you describe... the other kid could be engaging and fun, but she just always had to have her own way, was very controlling, etc. I suppose it has something to do with gender, because bullying in boys and girls manifests differently.

DD would come to us with tears in her eyes and tell us what her friend had done lately, and sometimes we'd advise her to not play with her friend the next time she called, and explain it was because of the given behavior. Then her friend would call, DD's resolve would evaporate, and they'd be playing that afternoon, as DW and I shook our heads. Some of the problems involved the other child never sharing toys at her house, always seeking DD's favorite toys at our house, never inviting DD over to join when other playmates had come over (including ones DD was already friendly with), etc.

In a way, it was a good thing, because it gave DD exposure to bad behavior, and gave her a start on how to deal with difficult people. But she no longer has any play dates with the child in question, because while my daughter was learning to stand up for herself, the bully's mom decided to call my wife and try to bully her. She failed, and now this woman is stuck at home with a bored child far more often than she'd previously enjoyed.

I'd say don't assume it's not bothering your son, because he might just be bottling it all up. My DD did at first... until she snapped and tried to shove her friend off the top of the slide (only 2 feet high, but still). She slugged her once, too. This is not a violent child, either... but she could only take so much.

There was a girl in preschool that DD was fast and close friends but she was allowed to hit and kick her mother. And when she felt comfortable enough with DD, and DD wanted to play with other kids, she kicked DD.

We focused on not allowing it because then DD tried to kick me. She had to learn it was unacceptable and it was unacceptable to allow this child to do it and for months she did not play with this girl. Then they kind of made up and then it happened again. Luckily the girl moved back to Italy.

We focus on not giving away your power and unacceptable. And DD talks to me when her friends make unreasonable demands and tell her to do what she needs to do for herself, whether she wants to play with someone else or sit beside somebody else at lunch. I am surprised how the games get played in 2nd grade.

First lesson in preschool was smile and walk away. And you keep reinforcing it. If she cannot kick me or behave that way with me, she shouldn't accept it from someone else.

Ren

Thanks for your replies. I'm still stumped by what motivates him to be around these kids. He's not lacking in self-esteem, he's a confident kid generally. I've seen him ignore other kids who try to be friendly. He's always been very single-minded about certain things...wondering if this is a case of once a friend, always a friend kind of misguided loyalty.

I need to be aware of my own tendency to worry as I suffered bullying in school, that's why I'm being careful that this isn't about me, and trying to take cues from him and getting him to think whether it's acceptable behaviour

Not much to add, except I empathize! We're going through a similar, though milder, situation with Hanni, age 4. There's a girl at preschool that she adores, but who treats her meanly *some* of the time, but is wonderfully fun the rest of the time. It's like an addiction with Hanni. I can't get her to see that she might be happier if she walked away and played with someone else.

I've been somewhat hampered in my efforts to intervene by not wanting to trash-talk this other girl. We've known her since she was a baby, and I think she's picked up mean-girl behaviors because she's been dumped on by her older sister. She's only 4, and I want to believe she is basically lovable, just having a hard time with her own stuff.

But recently both of Hanni's teachers (independently of each other) all but came out and said: T is a mean kid, Hanni should stay away from her. It kind of shocked me, but I also found it kind of liberating. Maybe I can be more blunt with Hanni about how T is treating her. T deserves sympathy and help with learning better behavior, but my main concern has to be Hanni.

We had something similar. I told my son that young children begin to try out manipulation skills on each other, so that was part of it, but that also one has to realize that sometimes people are just jerks (I used a word starting with an "a" instead, but that was the basic message). I told him that he wasn't well-served by feeding into the behavior in either situation, and that he should have enough self-respect to just let such people be. It seems to have worked.

This was pretty much my son's experience in K. Running around with two kids he thought were his friends while they alternatively shunned him, told him they didn't want to play with him, or bullied him under a cover of "hey, come play with us!".

It broke my heart. And I couldn't figure out how to make him understand those kids were not his friends.

The next year he got a diagnosis of Asperger's.

One therapist told me that AS kids are at high risk of bullying, because they misinterpret social clues, and because bullies tend to over-act their feelings and emotions while trying to jerk other kids around, which means that they show up as easier to read for socially blind (or short sighted) kids. Which makes them attractive.

I received a call from the school counselor when my youngest was in second grade letting me know that the school was very sorry for the bullying situation my son had been experiencing and that she was working with both my son and his classmate to resolve the situation. She seemed shocked when I told her I knew nothing about it. My son never once complained, talked about this boy as a friend, and didn't see his actions as bullying. It was mostly rough-housing like pushing my son up against the wall and pinning him against the wall, etc., but it was in the context of playing.

I asked my son why it didn't bother him, and he said it didn't make him feel intimidated or afraid - he somewhat saw this kid as an equal, not as someone "over" him. And while my son does not have Asperger's, I do think he has some of the same issues with interpreting other's social cues appropriately and is often blunt and doesn't understand why others react negatively. Despite that, he's well-liked, gets along with most kids, and is a good natured boy.

So we had to sit down with our son and explain boundaries, how to draw boundaries, etc.

I don't have any real useful advice for you - just wanted you to know you're not alone.

My son has an Asperger's diagnosis, as well, and I think this is something for you to look into carefully, as well, particularly because he doesn't seem to recognize actual attempts to be friendly when they happen.

Thanks so much for these posts, and it helps to see that other parents are struggling with similar issues. It seems as though I'm just going to have to bear with it, helping my son along in terms of understanding their behaviour, and what he can do about it.

Cricket3
- My son is reasonably aware of what's going on. He's told me about being excluded and how this other child bumps him on purpose, (as well as other kids). But I feel I need to be careful not to take too much interest, because he told me recently that this boy punched him. When I later said I was going to talk to the teacher about it, he then told me that it wasn't true. I don't want to make it into a 'big thing' if it really isn't to him just yet. But I'll be keeping an eye out and will definitely talk with the teacher if things get any worse.

As for considering Asperger's, well, my nephew has been diagnosed with it and I'm looking at the diagnostic criteria now but I don't really see it fitting him. He's well-developed socially in general; this is the only problem socially we've had with him. I think it's more about these boys being a lot of fun, and my son being quite a sensation-seeking child. He's not particularly shy or quiet himself.

He's been able to decide for himself before about not staying friends with a child who was mean to him, which worked fine because that child wasn't in his class. But this particular child is, and maybe that's the difference. Every day is a new day, and what happened the day before doesn't matter to my son because of the fun he hopes to have this day.

It seems that this is one of the hard lessons in life he has to start learning for himself. All I can do is be there for him when it goes wrong and help him see what he can do for himself.