Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Behavior issues only at home

I have a 6 year old daughter (just turned 6) who I suspect is gifted. We are going to test her this summer to see if she qualifies for the G&T program. She knew all her letters and sounds by 20 months without instruction, was sounding out words larger than CVC words by 24 months, doing 100 piece puzzles at about 2 1/2. Wanted to learn chess at 3 and also sounding out and writing words at 3. She started to read a little at 4 but then lost interest. Now in kindergarten she is reading at a DRA level for 3rd grade level according to her teacher, but at home is reading 4th and 5th grade level books such as Diary of a Wimpy Kid. They are doing minimal math in school but at home when presented with math problems she figures them out on her own or once explained she gets it. So I'm not sure where she falls for math. Right now she's really into bugs and is reading books about them and always saying "did you know that...." it's so cute.

Anyway, back to the purpose of my post. At school she is an angel, never is a problem for her teachers, is very mature, gets along well with her classmates, and is basically an ideal student. At home though it is a completely different story. I have had behavioral problems with her starting from the time she was a small baby. She literally came out of the womb with temper tantrums. I have always described her as passionate when it comes to her emotions, whether she's happy, sad, frustrated, or angry, it's as if her emotions are very intense for her.

The problem I am having is now that she is 6 I feel that the amount of temper tantrums should have subsided by now. There are days where she can have as many as 5 or 6. When she was younger (2-4 years old) I would rock her in the rocking chair and that would calm her down. But for the past 18 months I have told her she needs to go to her room and scream and when she is calm she can come out. I never give in to what she wants and I'm always very matter of fact about it. She doesn't fight going to her room or staying there. However, she'll march up screaming and stomping and slamming doors like a teenager.

She can get frustrated when toys don't work the way she wants them to and will easily have meltdowns because of it. She also has problems with her frustration and anger when it comes to her older sister when they are playing which also leads to the temper tantrums. I have tried telling her she is old enough now to use her words instead of resorting to screaming, hitting, biting, scratching, throwing things, etc. But just recently when she was angry with me about something she grabbed my shoulders, somewhat squeezed them, and it seemed as though she was trying to 'stop' herself from hurting me by making a contained growling sound. If that makes sense. I always tell her that this behavior is not okay, etc, etc, etc, and that she needs to say sorry, and go to her room to cool off. But apparently my technique is not working.

This was something I thought she would outgrow and have never been overly concerned because it never happens in school or when she was in preschool.

I don't want to give the wrong impression though, because she can be extremely loving and caring as well. One time when she was 5 I accidentally pinched her finger and she was doing everything she could not to cry. When she had a few tears I asked her if she was okay and she said she wasn't crying, that she just had something in her eye. I believe she didn't want me to feel any worse for hurting her than I already did. I will wake up with her in bed with me stroking my face or hair. At the park she will be taking care of little kids and babies and watch over them, etc.

I'm just wondering if this is something I should be concerned about even though it doesn't happen at school. Is there something I am doing wrong, or can do differently?

I think that some kids "save it up" for at home, because that's a safe place where they know they can left it out. It does sound like she's working on improving the behavior. Keep an eye on it, but it sounds like a normal maturing process to me.

I also wanted to add that up until 6 months ago she was extremely shy. In preschool she wouldn't let the teachers touch her, she would only play with 1 other kid at at time (according to the teacher). So if another kid would join she would leave. When she was 2 she figured out how to pump her legs to swing all by herself and spent the majority of playground time swinging. Do quirky things like spin a top and watch it for 20 min.

When we would visit family she wouldn't talk to relatives, let them hold her, or hug her, even though we were visiting for a month there. She wouldn't look at people when she'd talk to them b/c she was so shy. Her preschool teacher was very big on making her look at her when she would speak to her. Of course, she has never been like this at home. At home she's a completely different kid.

But like I said, in the past 6 months she's really come out of her shell and isn't so shy anymore and will approach people and talk to them. She still won't speak up in school unless called on.

Yeah, if she only started coming out of the "shy" shell six months ago, that reinforces my belief that she's just saving it up for you. She doesn't want to "stand out" at school by throwing a tantrum there. I would keep working on it, but treat it as normal behavior that improves as she gets older.

All three of my kids act much better in public than at home Even at 12

That said, my youngest dd (8), like your dd, never seemed to outgrow the huge temper tantrums that you typically expect to see in a much younger child. Yet she's an angel at school all day long.

I'll be honest, I have no advice!!! Lately we seem to have hit a patch where she's learned a bit how to control her temper - but fwiw, I do think that handling frustration and keeping control is going to be a challenge for her throughout her life. Is it a part of something more that we should be concerned about? I'm not really sure. For our dd, she's always been an anxious child, and she's HG with a slight dash of 2e so she's got those extra little challenges thrown in, along with a good dose of needing to be in control. One thing that helps with highly emotional children is simply time - as they get older they are better able to understand what is happening within themselves as well as better able to communicate it with parents. We took dd to a counselor for a few sessions this winter and it helped having a different adult (other than a parent) go through some simple concepts with her re feelings and how to recognize and deal with them. To be honest, the counseling sessions seemed beyond tedious to me because the counselor talked to her as if she had an IQ of a typical 3 year old... and here she is an HG 8 year old... but it helped!

Hang in there,

polarbear

Hi MtMom...it sounds to me like you are handling things very well and that she is actually handling things well when you consider the amount to stress she is subject too just getting through her day. She sounds like giftedness is part of the mix.

She also has a history consistient with Sensory Integration challenges. Have you come across books on that topic? OT evaluation might teach you some stratagies for helping her get less overwhelmed.

I also like a book for parenting tips calledm '_ransforming the Difficult Child Workbook' by Lisa Bravo.

Smiles
Grinity

I had a thread just like this not long ago--I also have a child who is an angel at school and very difficult at home. In fact, she consistently gets recognized for role model behavior at school (she's also a straight A student). Your DD sounds a lot like mine and btw, you sound a lot like me in how you have handled it ("I always tell her that this behavior is not okay, etc, etc, etc, and that she needs to say sorry, and go to her room to cool off. But apparently my technique is not working").

Things have gone from bad to worse recently and I've been changing my approach. Rather than sending her to her room or lecturing her, I've been trying to affirm her and reflect her feelings back without judgement or redirection. This is REALLY HARD for me and I am NOT GOOD at it. However, I'm seeing some positive results. This is the website I've been looking at a lot: http://www.ahaparenting.com/

(Now I sounds like a spammer, but I swear I've been on this site a long time!)

I too wonder if she may have some sensory processing issues. A preference for spinning and swinging can be a sign of a sensory seeker (as can the stroking of your hair/face). I found www.sensory-processing-disorder.com and www.sinetwork.org very helpful in explaining these issues. Some kids are sensory seekers, some are avoiders and many do some of both.

If your dd is dealing with some sensory issues, I would interpret what you describe like this: she is working really hard during the day to keep it together in a sensory overload environment and then when she gets home and relaxes that is where you see the meltdowns. For my ds, understanding his sensory issues was unbelievably helpful to me. If you realize how overwhelming the world can be sensory wise to them, then it makes the meltdowns make more sense and you also realize just how much self control they are putting forth in order to keep it together as much as they do.(And how often they are told they aren't controlling themselves because the time they spend controlling goes unnoticed). It is also helpful because the answers to these problems are not behavioral, they are physical. So for my DS, OT helped alot but also engaging in certain kinds of regular physical activity is mentally soothing to him. We have recently discovered a kid's sports training class that works really well for him. And when he misses a class I can see it in his behavior.

This is not to say you should excuse the behavior, but I think it helps to understand where it's coming from and attempting some prevention techniques. A good "sensory diet" may cut down on her tantrums if they are sensory related. An OT can get you on the right path with this. I would definitely explore this possiblity.

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who is dealing with this. I tend to blame myself since she only does it at home and I'm quick to assume I'm doing something wrong.

@ultramarina - I'll check out that link and maybe change my technique to see if that helps. Another approach I've taken is that when she feels she is at the point she is going to hurt her sister she needs to come to me and use her code word we decided on so I know she is not just tattling. But rather that she is in the 'danger zone' and going to lose her cool with her sister.

@grinity and LNEsmom - She has had other symptoms of a possible sensory issues. When she was little she didn't like when it would rain on her and she didn't like water spraying her (i.e. showers). She also doesn't like wet hair on her body when she is in the bath. And when she was 4 we went to a water park with family where she screamed/cried the whole time. I didn't even make her go near the kid splash pool or the wave pool and she was hysterical. Finally I ended up spending the day with her on the other side of the water park where it was more quiet and had a lap pool.

She is better than she was, she will go to water parks without screaming. She finally puts her feet in the ocean... up to her ankles anyway but still better than staying in the parking lot with a screaming child.

I never realized that sensory issues could cause meltdowns like this. I have an older daughter that I would consider sensory seeking in the sense that she LOVES movement and can't seem to get enough of it. She's not afraid of heights, loves to be thrown in the air, loves merry-go-rounds, and it's never fast enough or high enough for her. The younger dd (with the tantrums) is not like this at all. She is terrified of heights. She would avoid docks, boardwalks, bridges, playground equipment, all except for swings. She has always loved her swings.

What is a 'sensory diet'? Is there anything that can be changed in the classroom to help her? Her school is very open to the fact that all kids have different needs and they have exercise balls and balance boards for sitting. Is it a problem with too much stimulation vs. my older dd's problem of not enough?

And fwiw when I say she's the ideal student for a teacher - she's the first one to the circle, she sits still, watches and listens to the teacher from start to finish, doesn't get distracted, etc... So she is not fidgety. And at home she is not hyper or extremely active.

I'm going to see if I can find this, thanks for the recommendation!

Well, the hard part about sensory processing disorder is that every child is unique in their constellation of needs. So the trick is figuring out what are the triggers. I think with what you've said about dd, it is definitely something worth investigating. And the tantrums can be directly related to a sensory event or indirectly. In other words, imagine if there was a constant irritating buzzing in your ear (this is just a metaphor) that you successfully ignore all day long. Then towards the end of the day or week, someone like a sibling does something that frustrates you. Maybe it wasn't really that big of a deal, but it was the last straw and you just lose it. And imagine that you're only 6 years old and trying to deal with that. For me, it made my ds's behavior make more sense. For example, he would be fine most of the time in school and then almost every Thursday afternoon he would lose it and I would get a call from the school that he's being disruptive, disrespectful, etc. Now that I understand his SPD I see those meltdowns differently. And at that age, it is hard for them to express what the problem is, although, when I think back to what he would say, I realize he was telling me and I just wasn't comprehending.
A sensory diet is a set of daily activities that have a calming effect on the person. I think of them as activities that make that irritating buzzing go away or least get alot quieter. It is different for each person, so you'd have to try different things to see what helped. But it can involve swinging, trampolines, heavy lifting/pushing, weighted things like backpacks or blankets. An OT would work with you to figure out what your dd's specific needs are. And yes there are definitely things that can be done at school. Does she ever complain about being uncomfortable at school?

I also think there is significant overlap between SPD and the overexcitabilities attributed to gifties. I think it is hard to draw a clear line between the two, but since the interventions are similar it probably doesn't matter so much. But when I think of my son's intensities, his SPD seems to fit. It's like he experiences the world more intensely and therefore sometimes welcomes the experiences and wants more(the seeking) and sometimes gets overwhelmed and needs to get away from it (the avoiding). What is important is figuring out your child's specific triggers and trial and error to find what helps her. I found that asking DS about the experience not when the meltdown happens but later when he is calmer, I was able to get some insights.

The upside is that even though DS had a horrible 1st grade teacher who made him feel like a bad kid (we eventually switched classrooms and his behavior improved dramatically), in 2nd grade he has been fantastic at school and much better at home now that we have recognized and responded to the sensory issues (I also met with the teacher right away and explained some of his issues and suggestions for dealing with them, this helped alot I think!).
So it does get better!!

I'm borrowing this from another poster in another thread, because it explained my point better than I could:


Just something else to look into, because the answer might be SPD, understimulation, or a combination of both. Because you mentioned how far ahead your DD is, and you mentioned she's not in the G/T program yet, so it sounds like she's not getting any kind of intellectual stimulation at school.

Plus, my own DD7 has been having the same issue to varying degrees, and her home meltdown frequency/intensity is inversely proportional to the amount of intellectual stimulation she receives at school.

I will say that we thought DD's issues might improve when we switched her to the gifted school--in fact, we were counting on it. No such luck. (The new school is a lot better than her old one, though it's still pretty easy for DD.)

Sorry to hear it UltraM. How disssapointing. Are you planning further advocacy efforts? Pretty easy just won't cut it for some of our intense kids. I know with our gradeskip it was great the first year then o the second year. Then like a mouthful of sand although still better the third year so we had to change again.
:{

Hugs to you! You're DD sounds like my middle DD. I can't give many suggestions, but can tell you in our experience, things got much better when she was in 4th grade, although she does continue to have a melt-down here or there. My DD definitely has sensory integration issues (mostly a sensory seeker).

Grinity, at this point we're waiting to see how next year goes. It's really been a big improvement over her previous school, so in a lot of ways I'm pleased. She's learning much more than was. However, she has also expressed to me that it's still easy and also that she knows perfectly well that she doesn't have to do her best to get great grades. I think it would be a difficult advocacy job, since she's really just a few points above the minimum IQ score for admission to the school (though we certainly have the grades to show that she's handling the workload effortlessly...although....homework is a major battle). Anyway, I'm not sure anymore how much of our issues can be attributed to lack of challenge at school.

So I tried asking her if there is anything at school that bothers her and she said yes. But when I asked her to tell me specifically what it is, of course she couldn't tell me.

She does complain that school is boring for her and she daydreams when the teacher is teaching. At least she's honest, right? lol

This could be part of the problem, but then that would mean since was an infant she wasn't getting intellectually stimulated enough since she has always been this way from the day she was born (just manifests in different ways).

Giftedness, issues, whatever aside, kids are often better at home than around the general public. They know it's safe to decompensate with Mom. It's safe to act up when they're tired, out of sorts, or just feeling ornery. Mom, unlike that weird lady at the grocery store, is not likely to kill and eat them if they misbehave. Whereas Weird Lady...we're not so sure about.

you have described my 5 year old son to a T. Let's just say that between January and the end of April he is now in Therapy for severe anxiety and learnt underachievement and is no longer attending school.

I will do a proper update post as soon as I have the emotional strength to do so.

Once they figure out that they onyl have to do half of what they are truly capable of, they get so angry inside. But some of the higher-level gifted kids don't show it outside of the home from what I have read.

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/underserved.htm explains it nicely.

Interesting that you brought up the learnt underachievement. That is something the tester we are going to use this summer suggested could be the cause of her faltering trajectory around the time she entered pre-k at age 3.

Now whether or not that is the cause of her temper tantrums and behavior I'm not sure. She is definitely an intense child at times. She hurt her sister again yesterday when they were arguing. I am at a loss as to how to punish her for this b/c sending her to her room and apologizing for her actions doesn't seem to be doing anything. And she isn't using the code word we came up with for when she is angry or frustrated.

And her night terrors and sleepwalking are picking up speed and happening every night again. It's not as bad as last fall when it was 2+ times a night, but still exhausting for me. I think it has to do with the bugs she has been so interested in learning about lately as she will sometimes talk about bugs during her terrors/sleepwalking. She never remembers but she is anxious about going to sleep and says she feels bugs crawling on her or that she's worried there are bugs in her room. Yet she won't stop reading the bug books, hunting for bugs, or playing with her pet click beetle.

ALL our issues accelerated the longer he was at school - weekends were pleasant until Sunday afternoons. Then it would start again. School breaks would be wonderful until he found a calendar and saw less than 5 sleeps to school. It affected everything: appetite, sleeping, bedwetting, affection levels. At the very end even his physical abilities sometimes regressed when the anxiety was exceptionally high - he would walk like our toddler with his hands up by his shoulders, his speech would degenerate, he would whine and moan instead of talking.

And yes, it affects EVERYONE in the house.

They cannot apologize for it - it's not malicious - it's their way of crying out for someone to do something to change the trap they feel they are in. Problem with starting "school" from age 3, they cannot even explain why the academic fit is all wrong for them, they can't verbalise the boredom or anger - simply because it has most likely been the only clear association they have with nearly all of their schooling experience.

On the underachievement thing: It's very real!

Feeling bugs crawling on your skin is a neurological symptom called "formication". In combination with other neurological symptoms such as night terrors and sleepwalking, and with the irritability and outbursts, you might want to consider getting a referral for a neuro consult from your pediatrician.

Not every problem gifted children experience is due to giftedness.

Of course they are not only due to giftedness.

I think mountainmom did say that originally too. She commented on my response and I commented back. that's all.

My only goal in posting was to give a heads-up that this combination of symptoms might be due to more than spending a lot of time studying bugs (since that was what the formication was explicitly attributed to.) I know that if someone noticed a pattern that might be indicative of something like a seizure disorder in my child, I would want them to tell me, even if I thought that the issue was due to something totally unrelated that I was already aware of, like giftedness. I'm sorry if my post came across as anything else.

Thank you, that is what I was trying to say.. that I'm not sure if her behavior/tantrums are due to possible giftedness. I just wanted to see if anybody else is dealing with similar problems.

I appreciate you informing me about this. I have never heard of formication and will look into it as a possibility. However, I really think the bug crawling feeling and fear of going to bed are more related to her overactive imagination and anxiety. But like you said with the combo of all the symptoms there is a reason to be on the lookout.