Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Anyone do a 3-5 year grade-skip? Did it work out?

I'm not sure why you need early admission into K from the district to qualify for homeschool coops. Is it because the coop will not consider your child for admission? I'm trying to understand how it works in your state. Perhaps the coops will have your son anyway? Perhaps you could work out some sort of a parent participation agreement? Or perhaps if socialization is the key reason, you could ask the coop director if you could hang around and see if your child makes friends with other students and possibly even their younger sibs? I wouldn't completely rule out age-mates. In the beginning it was difficult for my son to find friends who were the same age but chances are there are other families homeschooling in your area for the same reasons you might...always worth a try. Necessity can drive us crazy moms pretty far (grin).

Again, necessity...use it and create your own group! I've done this twice and one of them (albeit not a gifted-specific one) now counts 900+ members. You would be surprised how far desperation will drive you.

I hear you..."missing something important"...sigh, don't I remember that well. I assure you, he will be fine and will learn what he needs to when he needs to. You probably know that -- just wanted to offer the extra reassurance.

I joke with myself that I will homeschool till he's 12 and then unschool till he's ready for college. There's so much available to learn that I am not convinced he needs college to learn it. Not until he's craving it anyway. Right now, he wants to be homeschooled/unschooled till he's 25!

Real life, deep discussions and lots of well-written books. And Google. I went on a curriculum high the first 3 years and don't regret it but we don't use homeschool-specific curriculum anymore except for the one or two that are usually unschooled or if I feel I need to keep a few around for reference (that's usually when I panic about correlating what he's learning with what's expected for the age or grade level--we have some thorny asynchrony issues here).

Is he a natural speller? If he is, I'd suggest just reading as much as possible. Mine surpassed all of AAS' placement tests at age 5. I'm saying this to help you save some $$. Good thing with AAS is it seems to have good resale value.

PM me if you like. Take care!

This is so true. We're currently have school holidays and in the one week we've had so far, dd has shot ahead again. You can think you've finally worked out an accommodation and suddenly need changes again!


This is a great piece of advice. Dds new school has a cohort of highly gifted kids and the cultural mix means that the majority of kids there are at the very least high achievers, focused on their work. Her previous school had some smart kids, but was much more relaxed. In that context her lack of worldliness was much more marked - all the kids knew the latest music trends and bands, watched TV shows that I don't feel are appropriate for young kids and so on. At her current school the kids are much more focused on school work. It's acceptable to be smart and scholastic effort is valued by both the teachers and students.

In terms of how we dealt with her anxiety, I can't really say we had a plan. We kind of approached it by gently insisting on exposure to the things that scare her. It's still an issue from time to time (she won't use the school toilets for example), but the school is hooking her up with their counselor who is experienced with gifted kids. Now things come out of the blue (like the toilet issue) rather than being constant.

Oh and constant explainations helped her too... for an extreme example, dd was terrified of getting pregnant 8 months ago. This resulted in a very detailed conversation about why she could not get pregnant now (covering her age, puberty etc). Then she got worried about getting magically pregnant after puberty. Sooooo... we had a conversation about why it would be her choice when and if she did get pregnant(a very high level discussion about the technicalities of sex and contraception)... not a conversation that I was expecting to have with that level of detail for quite some time. She just wouldn't believe me until she had all the evidence. She has at least declared she will never have sex

Goodness they're complicated little things.

It is good you are aware of your fear. I will say that I bet every single person posting here can think of traditional aged students they knew who had alcohol or drug problems in high school. I think your best bet is to not eliminate options out of fear. Keep an open mind to as many options as possible.

I would also encourage you to keep in mind that there may be a range of options someday that you aren't aware of right now. Your child may spend half days at high school or homeschool and half day at college. They may go to college and live at home. They may study abroad or work for a couple of years before attending college at the traditional age. He may begin to prioritize sports or some same age peer activity and accepted slowed down academics in order to get it.

My best advice is to try to make decisions looking at the kid you've got right in front of you rather than thinking about the child you expected to have or somebody else's kid you've observed in the past.

I was skipped three grade levels. I found it much easier to make friends because we were on the same level intellectually. I was very lonely when with my age peers. I had few friends outside of sports.

Mr W (3.5y) is in with 4-5 year olds and has made friends. I've got a pic of him sitting with some 5 year old boys on top of a tall slide and they are grinning at each other. He is clearly the smallest kid, but hangs with them. He told us the first week he liked it as the "other kids can talk!"

When he was 2.5y he would wait after school with Kindergarten kids and played with them. Once the older kids realized that he "was really smart" they let him play with them.

We've run into a few issues. One is that the kids sometimes "dont play fair" and he gets bumped or pushed. LOL. Well, grow up.

In another case, there was a 4 year old girl who was bullying him by hitting him or pinching him and the staff did little about it as she did it when no one was looking. I told him to hit her in the face and scream as loud as he could the next time she did it. And she left him alone after that. ( This was at the Montessori school. )

I thought his writing would be an issue but is has really taken off as has his artwork.

First off, get rid of your "normal" thinking when it comes to the reality of having a PG child. We started my son with a program from day one that would seperate his academic life from his social life.

Group 1 - When he was four we enrolled him in a small church Sunday School that had mulitple grades per class - thus a wide range of ages, but we did sort of pressure at one point to move him ahead but only to stay with the children he had become good friends with that were 2 to 3 years older than him.

Group 2 - He also attended Chinese school at this church, on Sunday afternoon, and while some people from the church attended there were other people there also and a wider range of ages (beginners all together regardless of age). If this hadn't worked we would have found another activity not age based.

Group 3 - Outside sports activity. While he tried soccer when he was 3.5, he started taking martial arts at the YMCA when he turned 4 and started competing in competition when he was 5. Over the years he has switched schools a few time to improve his skill and at each one he has made friends with a wide assortment and age range of children. He has also travelled all over the country for competition and has friends all over who socialize with him over Facebook and Skype. One thing my wife and I noticed is that children who consistly compete in Sports Martial Arts seem to be smart in general, with a large majority of them getting all A's and participating in IB programs for high school.

With social activities not being an issue, we concentrated on provide him with a program where he could progress at his own rate not mine. We did home school (reading, writing, and arithmetic) till he was 7 and then started him in the 3rd grade with k12.com for a structured curriculum. He progressed through 6 years of k12.com in 4 years, taking all curriculum classes and supplementing with courses from EPGY and CTY. He started high school at Florida Virtual School (flvs.net) at age 11 as a home schooler and completed all courses requried for college in 2 years (all honors and AP, except 2 years of chinese language, with an A in every class). This was allowed because he was home schooled and not enrolled through the local school system. He began college at 13 (almost 14) this last August 2011 as an early enrollment student and this is where his social, academic, and martial arts life seem to merge.

He appears to be a bright, articulate, extremely self-confident (we feel due to the martial arts) Freshman that is maybe 17 or 18. He has gone to campus club meetings where he knew club members and officers because they went to church with him. He has seen other students on campus that knew him from other activities and friends. He is meeting new friends, some who are now going to the dojo where he teaches martial arts.

We never had him tested (other than EPGY and SCAT, SAT for CTY), we never had expectations, we have never been disappointed by his results as long as he did his best. At any point he could have gone to a regular school if he wanted, not gone to martial arts, church, or chinese school. We have simply treated him with respect and dignity and told him our job was to make opportunities available to him and his job was to decide if he wanted it (we did offer our guidance).

So just enjoy the time you have with your son and don't worry too much, unless you truly want to operate within the educational system. If you try to do it witin the system, with other people making decision for your son on what's appropriate and then you having to argue back, good luck. IMHO, opt out and enjoy!

Annette-

I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. My DD is 4, will be 5 in a month and a half, and right now, she could easily hold her own in a 2nd or 3rd grade class. DD has the advantage of her handwriting being amazing and her fine motor skills shocking her psychologist. She writes better than any of the second graders at my mom's school. So for her, output is not a problem. In fact, last year DD spent time for a week in a second grade class and was able to hold her own socially, emotionally, and more than academically. She would need further acceleration in several subjects. Radical grade skipping would definitely work for her. We would be looking at a 3-4 year min skip across the board with further acceleration possible.

However we are homeschooling because we only have one school here and they do not believe in acceleration of ANY kind. Sigh. However not operating under the school system has been a blessing for us. DD started girl scouts this year with kids 2 years older then her, and while it is still not an ideal fit socially for her, I think it is the best we can do, because I am not sure socially how a group of kids 3-4 years older than her will accept her in a group situation. If they gave her a chance, yes, they would, but in a group, they don't have to, they have their own groups already and it is hard to break into. Individually she has a few friends now who fit her well and understand her, and they enjoy each other company. They tend to be 4 years older than her.

Could you start your own homeschool co-op or group? I am not sure why the school district should have anything to do with homeschool groups. The one we joined when we lived in PA let us in when DD was 2.5, after meeting her she did classes with 6 year olds and loved it. Here we don't have a homeschool co-op but I have started a homeschool art class and the kids range in ages from DD (4) to 16. It has been great for her.

For us, we have committed to long term homeschooling so that DD can just be her and learn at her pace. Try not to worry (I know WAY easier said than done! LOL) I still have a hard time breathing when I think of DD starting college so early, but in reality I have no clue what she will want to do, be ready for and when. So I try to breath and take it as it comes.

I have to agree with Maillig. I really like the suggestion of keeping social and academic separate, and I think for PG kids, a lot of time that works best. Good luck!

DS6 is in K now but we were in your shoes a couple of years ago. First, don't feel bad about searching for information- ever. Second, remain aware that the information that you are gathering is only that- information. Your child is a person, a living being, and will change many times over right before your eyes. Research all possibilities but remain open to having to use any of them at any given time.
I called and emailed people from all over our school district starting when DS was about 3 yo. My basic question to each of them was "My son is doing X, Y, and Z already. He may be in your school in two years time. What would you do with this?" This simple question got me all kinds of information from "some things will just be easy for him" to and offer for early entrance to kindergarten with possible subject acceleration from there. What we ended up doing, instead, was enrolling at his 'regular' entrance age (5y9m) at a charter STEM school.
When we were going to before-school conferences I told DS to think of a question he wanted to ask the teacher (thinking 'Where's the cafeteria/bathroom' When is lunch?', etc). Instead when teacher asks him if he has any questions he blurts out "Is infinity really a number?" I'm pretty sure he was the only one asking THAT particular question.
Anyway, the school has a focus on science, which is his real passion. Also, despite not having a 'gifted' program per se or even an early entrance option, we ended up feeling like they would foster the kind of environment that we felt would be best for allowing him to feel comfortable in his interests and give him the opportunity to move ahead with differentiation as much as possible. About 1 month and a half into the school year he got bumped up to 2nd grade for both reading and math. He loves this arrangement and, for now, its working wonderfully.
Even though this arrangement is working for the time being I am always aware that we may need to change things at any time. Right now, DS is saying that he wants to go to 2nd grade next year and skip up to 3rd for math and reading. He's already testing at a mid-3rd grade reading level (up from mid-2nd in October)and is trying to do multiplication and division as well as negative numbers, fractions, etc... so I have no idea what level he'll test at or where we will end up having to place him next year. For now, we let him enjoy things as they are, expand on them at his request at home, and really just sit back and enjoy the show
Sit down, buckle up, and hold on. It's gonna be a wild ride and there's no map to show you where you're going.

P.S. I'm assuming I'm not the only one who firmly expected to have a kid, put him in school at 5, go through all 13 grades, have him graduate at 18, and then go to college, only to be shown in no uncertain terms that MY plans have absolutely no bearing on HIS education ;-)

Hi Annette,

The Davidson database has a few articles on radical acceleration. They advocate one skip at a time, and doing it as early as possible. I know that each child is different, and the one skip at a time may not be possible, given how advanced he is. But the research has been quite positive on radical acceleration in general, particularly on the child's social development and view of self-worth. One article in particular compares one year skip to multiple skips in terms of the happiness of the child. This can be useful when approaching schools about multiple grade skips.

My son, DS11, has had two grade accelerations. He is in 8th grade and bored silly. He sounds much like your son at age three. I remember him teaching himself multiplication at age 3 by watching a Schoolhouse Rock video once. Sigh. I'll point out a few things that I have learned along the way. They may or may not help you, since each child is so different.

Much talk is given to grade acceleration. But you can also subject de-accelerate, when needed if you want him to be with age peers. My son fits in socially best with kids that are 3 years older than him. (He has a summer birthday, and was by far the youngest even before the skips). The one class I would consider de-acceleration to be important is gym. Having a young kid, who has yet to hit puberty, in with older kids can be hard. It really depends on the older kids, and how they handle it. But it can be a source of bullying and teasing. You can also put them in younger grades for art, music, etc. But honestly, my son prefers to be with older kids, even for gym.

Puberty is just not fun. It is hard to have an 11 year old boy in a class where the kids are completely obsessed with sex. They talk about it constantly. They think about it constant. They share words, definitions, and web sites with your kid that you really wish they wouldn't . But hey, that is just the one downside to having appropriate education. Ask me again when he is a high school senior and still can't drive if it was the right move to make. I'm pretty sure I'll still say yes.

The other thing is that for PG kids, the rate of learning is radically different than for normal kids. You can skip all the grades you want, but the pace of the new class/grade can still be maddeningly slow. So even radical acceleration doesn't really solve the problem, if your son is in a regular school like mine is. Unfortunately, not all areas have HG+ schools. My son spent most of the last month drawing Sci-Fi cartoons and inventing computer codes and expansions for his Mindcraft world in his head when the teacher is talking. He can do the lesson and the homework in the time it takes the teacher to explain the lesson to the class. He currently enjoys the company of his classmates, so we are trying to settle in and keep this grade. I honestly don't know if further acceleration is in our future or not. Sometime subject acceleration, on top of multiple grade acceleration, helps keep them with their friends, but allowing their mind to be challenged in at least one area.

And teachers are the make-or-break needle on the balance. A teacher who gets your child can make all of the difference. Unfortunately, this means that each year is like Russian roulette. Some years are great, while other years are dismal. And this is within the very same school. It makes any form of planning just useless.

And lastly, from my limited experience, what seems to be important is the temperament of the PG child in determining how he/she fits into school. Some kids are intense and have trouble with the slowness of school. Other kids are mellower and can handle the boredom if they enjoy the social fit. It just depends on the personality of the child. Our second child, DD2.5, is completely different from DS11 in personality and temperament. We will likely have to learn everything about gifted kids and accommodations all over again in order to help her.

You are going to have a wild ride in store for you. The best I can say is that you already have a leg up on the situation, since you are investigation education options and you have read about levels of giftedness. This board is wonderful for both the friendship and the resources.

Cheers!

DS(4y2m) also gives a blank look when asked an easy question.
He has never been one to draw or colour because of perfectionist issues but a breakthrough came for us with the book 'Ish' and his space obsession (alien people, buildings etc are supposed to be odd shapes )
He loves taking things apart also.
I have no idea how a fit will happen at school as he is an introverted (but not shy) boy, reading gr 3 level, maths probably gr 1/2 level, general knowledge/science mid to late primary but socially closer to his age. We are thinking of an initial skip to gr 1 next year with hopefully subject extension, +/- another skip the following year. One step at a time... He would love homeschooling in some ways but at the same time some of school would be potentially good for him. It will be quite a journey for us all...

I'm so grateful for the above posters and comments. I'm going through a similar situation with my eg/pg son (6 yr) in kindergarten.

My son's been in two private gifted schools (both aimed at HG/MG) since last year and we're about to pull him from the second one and homeschool him. We tried a number of times working with both schools, but we've found the teachers/principals inflexible about grade skipping and other policies. Then again, we also ran into social/emotional issues with both schools in terms of my son and other children.

So I agree that a lot of revolves around the teachers/administration as well as the other kids. It is case of Russian Roulette.

I've found other issues too crop up with having a eg/pg who's 3-5 years ahead of his age and peers.
1. Confidence/output. Children do not always want their ideas/thinking/abilities to stand out. My son read two books at a 4th grade level (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and the sequel) but no one else at the gifted school is reading 4-5 levels ahead. My son doesn't want to stand out so now he's reading at a 2/3 grade level again.
2. Acceptance/tolerance. Some pg kids can be in an academic setting who are less gifted, but others will not tolerate it long-term. We had this happened with our son, especially at the 1st gifted school. He whizzed through the pre-k/k/1st grade curriculum in 2 1/2 months and then started to act up because he was bored and wanted to be out asap. At both schools, we've found that our son has trouble relating to kids his age and vice versa. This has contributed to problems. He's done better at the second gifted school in a mixed-aged setting, but we've also come across older kids who don't know what to make of him, not mature, or 'resent' him (for lack of a better word).
3. Social/emotional. Your son may be socially/emotionally more mature than other kids his age, but others may not be as advanced. Some kids are fine with this, but other kids like my son are less tolerant.
4. Curriculum. Teacher/child-driven. We found our son totally resisted the drill-kill, rote learning, teacher-driven approach at the first gifted school. Total disaster. At the second gifted school, it's been child-driven/ intrinsically driven and there's been more success. Still, my son is miserable with the way the teachers at the second gifted school approach math, especially the timed test method. He's been less thrilled with some of the overemphasis on arts/crafts and experiential learning than on content. Upon reflection, I'd say you need to strike a happy balance between content and extras and intrinsic/external motivation to learning.

If the curriculum isn't rigorous enough or enough depth/content for your pg (like we've found), then it can be a difficult bridge to cross if your son isn't getting enough to sustain him at a school setting. And of course, there are other curriculum issues that pg parents face, which some of the above posters have mentioned. Even if you're child is reading only 3 grade levels ahead, you still have to monitor what they're reading in terms of social/emotional issues. I forgot how much authors write about bullying, teasing, girl/boy stuff, sibling rivalry, etc. in books aimed at typical 3rd grade children. It starts early and yet your child may or may not be ready.

PG kids tend to do better in mixed-age school settings so they do not stand out, but again it depends on the child, teachers, school, and the other students.