Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy we're FINISHED with THAT school!

that's it, I've had enough.

After 3+ years of the school TELLING ME I have to MAKE my kids do what they want her to do, doing what they have asked of me and still having no improvement, I have finally had the last straw!

At last week's SST, the counselor suggested we make the consequences half of a system she set up more severe, because the consequences didn't seem strong enough to deter DD8 from misbehaving...she also said to take my child to a conselor so we can try to get to the root of why she doesn't want to cooperate. Same counselor also said I should go ahead and look at other school options, but that DD might be "manipulating" me into a change...School psycholgist agrees with outside counseling and says DD needs more frequent reinforcment of positive behavior during the day. Well, that would have to be totally the teacher, I'm not there all day...Teacher says we need to be a team...I guess meaning all us grownups, but not the child whose future we are discussing...so fine...I say I will do all those things...
Then, after three days of no red or green card (daily progress reward/consequnces system), I go to the teacher and ask...she tells me she has decided to stop doing it because it didn't seem to be working and she "meant to email me about it"...I waited last night and this morning for her email...it's still not here.
My daughter is going to be upset about missing spirit week next week, but I don't think I can allow her to stay in this situation, right? I mean, I did what the school asked, but they keep failing to hold up their end of the bargain!
The only question is what to do with her while we have testing and assessment and can make a decision about the best placement. You can't just take a kid out and not register them in another school...

2gift, if I were in your shoes, I would not make any decisions in the heat of the moment. I'd wait until you have the outside testing finished and results and report in hand, and see what they say.

With that information you can make a decision based on facts rather than feelings... which is much in your DD's best interest.

Among other things, we have found that an outside report that offers specific details about what the school should be doing carries significant weight in changing the school's behavior.

And if there are LDs present, you might not want to give up the services that should be available through public schooling.

Unless they are doing actual harm, let your DD do spirit week and get that report ASAP.

DeeDee

This sounds difficult, and sounds like the more you push the harder they push back. And this has become an emotional issue -- so it doesn't sound like it will be easy to come to a level-headed decision for your daughter without taking a step back.

Easier said than done, I admit!
Talk to your daughter. What is the one thing she would change right now? Is she attached to enough other kids that moving to another school would hurt more than help?
Writing this stuff out (like you did above) can help tremedously. Talk to friends, hearing you explain your issues can help figure out if there are holes in your logic, expectations that are out of whack, etc.

I'd definitely start on some testing/assessment immediately if you have not already -- what assessment has already been done for your daughter? If it's possible to get something concrete to work with before making a move you will feel better.

Good luck!

edit: ps - the teacher might think she's covered her new discipline program by having that chat with you, and not feel like she needs to send a note to give further details.

we will start evaluation with a private psychologist next Tuesday (IQ test). She's also previously had an IQ test at 2.5 and the school gave them the Raven at the end of last year, 2nd grade. We know she's gifted and we know that after 3+ years, school life hasn't gotten any better.

In this case too, I think I might have to override "missing some friends"...she has "friends" but I would say that she is not super attached to any of the kids and has always been that way. Plus, she is getting labeled as a trouble maker, defiant, etc and that can't be helping her socially...I have wrestled with that part of the equation, but socializing at school shouldn't be my focus, right? She shoulc be challenged and stimulated, not feel like she has to spend all her energy trying to play some kind of game, giving the teacher "appropriate" social behavior...

The school won't do learning disability testing (just to rule out), this was the second time we had an SST but still aren't getting an IEP...

I think I owe it to my DD to find a better fit for her academically and the friends will follow...plus, we will still go back to our old school for Girl Scouts, so she will see those friends. And if we homeschool, we would have more time and flexibility for other social interactions.

DeeDee-that's the problem...with the teacher pulling out the system we all agreed on and not discussing it with me first, I feel that is harmful. The teacher says we should be a team, but she changes the play without telling me...

I don't think I should have to work so hard. Maybe it will turn out that my kid just doesn't fit plain public school, but it is apparent, more and more that this school just isn't a good fit.

I was willing to wait until Christmas, but now, I don't know...

I would suggest that you consider two issues in dealing with your DD at this point, academic fit and behavior and be working on both of them at the same time.

First, get her educational environment closer to her level. If you are going to keep her in this school, they are going to have to do something different for her while you all are working on the behavior issues. Otherwise, look for the school or situation that is going to be a better fit for her intellectually. I know you are doing some testing right now and that should help with figuring that out and may determine options. It did for us in that we were able to apply to a HG school.

Second, you have to get your DDs behavior in check. Don�t rely on the school to come up with a behavior plan � they will always go to the standard card system which I don�t think is that effective. I strongly recommend the Nurtured Heart Approach � get the Workbook. I have been trying it for the last month with my DS and it does work. I am not the best at it and I have slipped up some but really taking the time to emphasize and celebrate the positive about your kid is what it is all about and my kid seems to respond to it. It gives you a great opportunity to really highlight and praise the qualities and behaviors you want to see in your child. I am sure right now your DD is really beat down by what is going on and to give that praise is essential. Also, it will let your DD know that you have a plan and she can be confident in what you are doing too.

With respect to the school changing its way of looking at behavior, I pm�ed Grinity desperate for some help in this regard a few months ago and here is what she told me. (Grinity � I hope you don�t mind me sharing). Much of what was suggested we have done over the last few months and it is much better right now.

1) Make a behavior chart � one sheet of paper that contains 3 specific behaviors � 1 should be a real problem, the other not as bad a problem and one a gimme behavior.

2) For each behavior it is not an all of nothing � it should have 'poor' 'fair' 'good' 'great'

3) State the rule as a negative (I know this isn't popular, but Intense kids need crystal clear boundaries) example: No Yelling, No touching, No crying, No moving out of seat while teacher is talking. Eventually you'll be able to use a less concrete rule like 'No disrupting'

My DS�s rules are No Touching Other Students or Their Things and No Disobeying The Teacher (at home it is Take No For an Answer and No Whining) and No Throwing Food.

4) Leave a blank slot on the daily communication instrument that says: Tonight at the family dinner, we can celebrate that your DD did _______________________.
This part has been great for my DS because no matter what the day is like, we always have something positive to celebrate. It also gets the teacher to focus on something positive every day about your child which can change how she thinks about your DS.

I met with the teacher after I drafted the chart and she is doing it and it is working. The first few weeks are rough, but my DS has had the last two weeks of goods and greats. My DS�s teacher is a kind and compassionate woman but she was at a loss to know what to do with DS. She said she would be willing to try anything, but we have to come up with what to try. That is why we have sought the help of an outside psych. I spoke to the psych about the behavior issues and she recommended many of the same things as suggested by Grinity and the NHA.

We also use a credit system at home where if my DS gets goods/greats, he gets 15 minutes of screen time and if he gets a great in not disobeying the teacher he gets an extra 5 points. We give screen time for other good behaviors too. We never deduct screen time but my DS does not watch TV or play videogames or games on my phone without having accumulated screen time.

Good luck. It really is not easy and dealing with people at the schools can be exhausting - hang in there.

well, maybe we can try that one, but at this point, with the teacher already pulling the daily communication system we had, I don't know if this is going to happen...part of my problem now is that she did this without discussing it with me at all...I have been begging all this time for DAILY communication and you'd think I was asking them to cut off their right arms or something!

I'm 99.9% sure that this school has nothing left to offer us. The only question is what to do in the meantime...

BTW-the "bad" or undesirable behaviors at school are things like refusing to do work, reading under the desk, monopolizing discussion periods. I have been told we cannot allow her to read under the desk, etc because it "undermines the teacher's authority", but all the other kids KNOW my kid is "different", even among the bright and even gifted kids, she is not the same...and we have NO bad behaviors at home. Sure, she is not perfect, but I am not a permissive parent either and at home she functions beautifully...she starts homework with no prompting and is currently obsessed with "beating her time" to finish the work on a timer...

All of these behaviors practically scream, "I'm bored!" I'd say it's time to talk to your school about acceleration, and if that's a conversation they're not willing to have, start exploring other options.

now she is suspended for forcing another kid off the play equipment and hurting him That was not normal for her, so I'm not sure what happened. And I just had lunch with his mom yesterday! ugh!

I made sure she went back to her teacher and got the classwork and homework for tomorrow...I have an email from the teacher regarding conferences, but no email about stopping the daily progress info It will be interesting to see how she reacts tomorrow...

She is FINALLY telling me though, that she feels different and it makes her sad. Everyone is her "friend" but they don't play "together"...I know she eats lunch alone usually...

We have decided to leave, it's obvious that this isn't the right place for her, but I also have to make sure that it's because of giftedness (with or without another factor) and not because she really has something serious going on. We are not running AWAY from this school, but looking for an option to run TO.

She told me the only day she is excited and happy to go to school is Friday because it's the last day of the week

Dude-we haven't even GOTTEN to a place where we can talk acceleration. They won't do an acheivment test, we'll get that from the private psych...they are still totally focused on HER behavior, and even though we HAVE another 3rd grade class, they won't even CONSIDER moving her...I feel like they continue to "blame" me, that I somehow am undermining the teacher...I mean, THEY gave her the test that says she is DIFFERENT, and not just a little, but rather a lot, yet they continue to treat her exactly the same as the others...they even BRAG about how "every kid benefits" from GATE cirriculum. That just shows how lacking their GATE is, imo...

We have alot of options too, so I want to take some time...
Again, I just have to find out the proper procedure to pull her out but not enroll her in another school right away...

and I think we will ALL benefit from the suspension, which DD also doesn't think is such a punishment. I think she's rather looking forward to it...

This might be helpful:

Homeschooling laws

There are links down the left side of the page that take you to homeschooling laws for many different regions.

aculady, I don't even want to register her as a someschooler yet though...I think what I want is a "contract". that's what our school calls it when you know a child will be out for an extended time so you get their work, etc...

I don't know if we are homeschooling yet, she wants to try another school too, didn't ask if we could go straight to homeschooling...

I hear you. It's awful to be in a bad-fit place. And I think you are right to consider what else may be going on besides just giftedness, or even giftedness plus ADHD.


Could be boredom; could be ADHD; my DS9 (gifted/Asperger's) presents like this in school, too. I hope your outside evaluator is looking broadly for things that could make completing and turning in work difficult, not giftedness alone. If there's something there to catch, you'll want to find it.

DeeDee

omg, that was horrific! am I reading this right?

"Each person between the ages of 6 and 18 years not exempted under the provisions of this chapter or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 48400) is subject to compulsory full-time education. Each person subject to compulsory full-time education and each person subject to compulsory continuation education not exempted under the provisions of Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 48400) shall attend the public full-time day school or continuation school or classes and for the full time designated as the length of the school day by the governing board of the school district in which the residency of either the parent or legal guardian is located and each parent, guardian, or other person having control or charge of the pupil shall send the pupil to the public full-time day school or continuation school or classes and for the full time designated as the length of the school day by the governing board of the school district in which the residence of either the parent or legal guardian is located."

that sounds like I HAVE to educate my child for the same number of hours that they do at the regular school? So, nevermind if she could finish the required work in half the time?

DeeDee-we chose someone from Hoagie's list, on the testing page. I already met her and really like her. We have IQ testing first, next Tuesday. Part of the reason we are in this place is to rule out ADHD or other things, especially since, so far, the school doesn't see it asa boredom or gifted issue, just a behavior one. I am confident in the dr we are seeing and the school wanted her to see a counselor of some sort anyway. I'm also in the middle of Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis...so maybe not just gifted/ADHD, but any o ne of a number of other things that you KNOW the school's testing would never reveal.

I feel, at this point, that the school has tried to put the entire burden on my shoulders, that I am somehow not doing enough. I thought this year was going to be different, but the situation has finally come to a head. I want to reach across the table and shake them and say "I KNOW my kid isn't the first kid like this you have seen? WHAT did you do with the others???" Maybe the REAL problem here is MY EXPECTATIONS are finally colliding with the reality of the situation, which is much more dismal than I ever imagined. I never imagined that principals and teachers would say a kid who demonstrated the ability to work on a higher level that they aren't ALLOWED or supposed to. it's taken ME a long time to accept that she might really be THAT bored and that is the answer?

I am hopeful that she thinks a different school is the answer and that she is not so soured on the experience that she is begging to be homeschooled yet...

Wow, while I am not surprised at this post given your previous ones on the situation, I am saddened. You want to ask what they did with other kids like your dd? I would guess the same things until their parents withdrew them or the kids became completely alienated from school. I can't believe they won't let her even try the other classroom! That is crazy. It seems that they have drawn their wagons in a circle and aren't going to budge. I think it makes total sense to move on.

AND they SUSPENDED her! That seems overly harsh. IMO they are giving you a message that they don't want her in the school. Which is weird because, from your descriptions she doesn't seem like THAT much of a problem. I wonder, perhaps if the teacher is insecure/resentful towards your dd because she knows your daughter is smarter than her. You'd like to think teachers wouldn't be that ridiculous, but there are always the bad eggs.

I don't know what the paperwork involved in signing up as a homeschooler is, but I wonder if you could just go ahead with it just to make sure your bases are covered. It sounds like your dd could use a few days of recovery anyways and maybe some time to remember that learning is fun and not forbidden! Plus, you don't want to feel rushed in choosing a new school for her.

Finally, I feel like a concern about ADHD is premature personally. As I understand it, to qualify as ADHD the behaviors have to persist for more than 6 months and in more than one setting. If the lack of attention and defiance is only at school, then that is situation specific. Also, with a gifted kid, I don't think you could really determine ADHD in the school setting until they are placed in a learning environment that approaches their intellectual level, which she clearly has not been. I think teachers/schools are overly touchy about the word "bored". I don't know how many times I have read not to use that word in discussions with them. But really, if you don't want me to say your class bores my kid, then do something to fix it! Your daughter's behaviors scream BORED to me and I am sure to them too, they just don't seem to care for some reason.

I am so sorry for you and for your dd, but you are doing the right thing. Someday she will look back on this miserable time and remember that her parents listened and stood up for her.

That sounds really difficult, 2giftgirls. I have to say, for me the biggest relief was when we made the decision and there was no more humming and harring. Good luck with the next part of the journey.

in this case, she was suspended because the other child was hurt.
After talking briefly to his mother, who is a friend, I can see that the school also minimized or is completely unaware of what really happened. As usual, we are getting two different stories from the kids and no adult actually had eyes on them when it happened. I'm deeply saddened because the other child is also gifted and, while physical concerns are one thing, I know this oculdn't be good for his esteem and they are also in a similar situation rergarding school, except that he does well in classroom...the other mom and I have joked that if we could cut the two of them in half, and blend them, we'd have two "fine" kids.
I don't think this teacher has a problem with my DD, but maybe I don't know how to read her? She does confuse me a little at times...and other parents, who have had that teacher and assured me that this would be THE teacher, are puzzled as to why she would change the system without telling me...
For what it's worth, the school psychologist doesn't believe she has ADHD...and these incidents usually happen once or twice a year, she doesn't have a pattern of purposely hurting other kids, and she doesn't beat up on her sister at home, but this is not the first time that her judgement has been severly lacking. Usually some other kid provoked her by getting in her personal space, which the kids at our school seem to do, as a group. They are touchy feely, always jostling and touching each other and I know that bothers her a lot...
I have been crying almost every day since the school year started and it's really hit home how different she is when school is in session. How do you hide from a perceptive child that even you are unhappy with the school, even if you don't talk about it...

I have pulled a child out of school in the middle of the school year because "I just couldn't take it any more". I am glad we left, and don't regret it at all. That said, I do wish I had taken more time, much more time deciding where dc would be going to school NEXT.

The suspension is actually a great thing to let you readjust your sights. You'll need to stop thinking about the "old school" (which is the hardest thing in the world once you've gotten to the point where you're mad and frustrated and mama bear is ready to pounce) and start focusing on the new plan.

It sounds like you're working hard on getting the data you need so that you don't jump out of the frying pan into the fire.

It looks like this law applies to anyone non-exempt, and the exemptions are contained in the sections they reference, so you should be able to look there to find the specifics on homeschooling, which should qualify as an exemption.

What state are you looking at?

Good on you for getting her out of there. It really sounds like a poisoned environment. Been there, done that. I think the nonsense about, "All our children benefit from GATE" shows how completely incompatible they are with your child.

ok, so I know it's home and she's more comfortable and blah blah blah, but...

DD started working on today's classwork around 9am. I gave her some time limits for a few activities and she easily completed each item, mostly in far less time than I guessed the teacher would have alloted. I know also there are things like short recesses and periods of time that would normally involve some time wasted by changing seats, waiting for others, etc. The assignment that was group work, she and I discussed together for maybe 10 minutes (deciphering the meaning of proverbs) then she completed the writing in about 4 minutes...mind you, this is a kid who has previously refused to write on many occasions and it was like meltdown territory...I even gave her 20 minutes to just read and some breaks between different kinds of work. We spent 10 minutes watching You tube videos of how the sun moves across the sky...she even already did tonight's homework. The only thing she has left is to "write" her spelling words on the computer in different fonts, colors, etc like in Geronimo Stilton...we were done in 2 HOURS! Oh, she also made a thank you card and an apology card in that time and now we have started the laundry.
Other than recess and lunch, and maybe the more appropriate video the teacher would have shown for science, can someone tell me WHAT THE HECK my kid is doing for the other 6 hours of the day?!?!?!
I put sticky note with feedback on some of the assignments to let the teacher know just how well Butter can do in the right environment...I'm sure they will just look at that and attribute it to her being at home, but that is the point, I guess, CHANGE OF ENVIRONMENT!
I also treated her to a bagel this morning, AFTER we dropped off The Diva and promised her we could go to the library this afternoon. No screen time during what would be regular school hours though, of course. She is very happy today. And I am too.

Additionally, since the charachter development exercise used the word respect and had a definition, I asked Butter if she respected Mrs W. "No, not really." She can't really tell me why, so I ask if she thinks Mrs W respects her? "No"...I ask "Do you trust her? If you had a problem you didn't want to take to me about, do you think you could go to Mrs W?" She says "No". No also to her counselor, but yes to Ms V, the school psychologist. I even asked if she thought she could go to last year's teacher and she still said no. That is sad. A kid should be able to trust and respect their teacher and feel respected and like a part of the classroom. Sadly, my child appears not to.

That's CA law, right? Your child is exempt under Section 48222 or 48224, which are "provisions of this chapter," if you homeschool using one of the 4 options described here: http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/California.pdf

I think you already know the answers to that:

- Being bored
- Acting out
- Monopolizing class discussions

She has just demonstrated the gulf between what she can do and what the school is offering her.

I'd also add standing in line and waiting


Not to mention all the things she's not learning...

I'm so glad she's having a good day. I know my boy has a better day when out of the environment there (FYI -- our kids go to same school, same grade, different rooms). I had to pause when you asked if she respected Mrs W. then I realized it was the teacher and not me.
We've discussed that both children would do better in a different situation -- and finally DH is getting on board with the thoughts. He just wants/needs validation from the professional.
I've got my oar firmly in the water, keep yours in the race and we will succeed. More importantly your DD & my DS will.

silly master-of COURSE there was NO screen time today, except for spelling work on the computer, shoot, you're right! I let her watch some Youtube for the science work, oh no! AND she did have to make an apology card for Mr B.

awww hugs SDMom!!!!

Yes, today's experience showed me how easily she CAN do this work. She could be teaching herself practically. I made her do a journal entry on playing safely and she will also have to do one on being kind. I honestly think she has detached herself somewhat from the environment and the other kids.

And yes, OUR Mrs W, not you, lol! Actually, I think she DOES respect you and that's why, when you have spoken to her, I think it does sink in. It is like part of her just "doesn't get it" sometimes...must be that asynchrony, lol! AND she said that because she feels Mrw W doesn't respect HER and she doesn't TRUST Mrs W.

I fired off a letter to Ms V too, after Butter said she did respect and trust her. I got a response from her that she forwarded it to Prinicipal J, which I suppose she should, but I don't think I want to talk to Principal J about it. I can't imagine what she could possibly say that would make me change my mind at this point. Just give me the classwork up to winter break and we'll see ya later!

Oh, I did take her out to sushi lunch, where the resturant owner helped her perfect her chopstick handling and she tried some roe, then some ahi for the first time. She played on the playground at The Diva's school while I chatted with the teacher, then we went to *gasp* the LIBRARY!!! lol! I did decide they should each choose a nonfiction book as well though. Butter chose "The Wildlife Detectives". It's about how forensic science is being used to preserve species, etc...Yeah, no learning going on over here.

and now...drum roll please...I thought we had hit rock bottom but that was before I got the email from the teacher explaining herself. And where my response for not punishing my child at home as severely as they would like (apparently the teacher expected her to be grounded the whole weekend for a bad day on Friday???) winds up sounding like me JUSTIFYING and explainging myself. I don't owe the teacher an explanation, which, btw, is that there has been way too much focus on negatives and I needed to remind myself that my kids are fun and enjoyable. Plus, her sister doesn't deserve to be punished too and my DH has been out of town more than he's been home. We needed time to feel good about ourselves and our family. I NEEDED my kids to say I was awesome...

I sent the teacher an email specifically asking her to NOT punish Butter by not letting her continue to art, when that was an activity. I think art is just as important, if not more than for my kid. I know my child is also far more engaged in art and would likely act out less if there was more art. And lets not even address that Butter's idea of "art" is far more advanced than what the teacher is providing. Butter has her own sewing machine, draws amazingly (gave up coloring books at 3) and is working on origami. The teacher's idea of art is gluing torn paper leaves on construction paper...

so here is her response
"In regard to your email about not witholding Art...In my class if there is any student who is not completing their work, then unfortunately they are not allowed to participate in Art until their work is complete. It is my class policy, and it is not something that I am willing to compromise, and allow uncompleted work to be taken home and returned"

Questioning Butter reveals that this is not a universal policy either. PE trumps math worksheets, which then would be done after PE, at recess. But if they are still on math and the class moves to guided reading with the teacher, Butter continues math, in effect, missing part of the reading activity.

It gets worse...she doesn't feel like each day is a fresh start, she feels the teacher likes other students more than her (which is just logic, even if it's not actually true. it stands to reason she would not like a problem child more than a well behaved one). I had to promise her, on the spot, that we would start looking for another place right away. I asked her if she wanted to participate in Halloween on Monday and spirit week the rest of the week, but even that can't draw her back. She wants me to get the schoolwork and do it at home while we figure something else out.

So I told her we would and I promised I would never be on a team of adults deciding her future without consulting her again. I might not do what she wants, but I will never again automatically listen to a teacher or other adult without finding out my child's perception.

SUrely 8 years old is old enough to say that you are not happy and ask for a change.

and SDmom reminded me that "art" is a subject requirement

Oh for heaven's sake, walk away from that school and don't look back!

And talk about a lack of appreciation for educational value of art!

And I am so glad to hear you had a great day with your dd! Guess its a good thing that she "manipulated" you into giving her what she wants: a stimulating educational environment!

There comes a time in this journey that you just look your child in the eye and essentially say "I get you, and I get that you need something very different than what you are getting". And somehow it's just enough to give them hope, optimism, and some resilience.

In a year or two, you may look back and laugh. And then you may start hearing the stories about what she was really doing at school for 6 hours a day.

ok...

we have a one week contract. After we go to the psychologist Tuesday, I will decide if I want our principal to call the local school and send her there right off the bat or if we want to transfer her as a homeschooler to either the homeschooling "school" or the virtual one. Apparently we might not be able to switch right over to our local school, but would absolutely be able to do so over the winter holidays. But I still want testing first, then I want a meeting with the principal of local school to determine if they will be able to meet her needs...

I had to go in the classroom to help DD clean out her desk and collect her stuff. I got the distinct impression that the teacher was none too pleased...but the counselor looked me square in the eye and said "Take her somewhere else"

DD didn't shed a tear as we walked away!

Oh my gosh, so glad you are out of there. That is awful. Your poor daughter.

Just for the record, I encountered Mrs. K. today, she's harsh and abrupt. So glad that my Mr. B has Mrs E.

oh Kate, I mean that in a good way. I have been waiting for someone to tell me. Last year's teacher told us to take her somewhere else and now I see what she really meant.

Gee, I heard the same thing. And last year we were both reluctant to do so. Now it's a new year. Gonna miss our parking lot chats though.

we can meet ANYWHERE else instead! Starbucks and museums sound more fun than the parking lot!

Do I see the makings of a PG homeschool co-op?

talked to DH tonight...I think he wants me to go ahead and homeschool her until at least winter break, which I am willing to do, but will wait until I talk to the psychologist on Tuesday. So then I would have the same decision of MEA or Connections...

I'm not bothering with MEA -- lack of acceleration does not appeal to this household.
I wonder how many PG homeschoolers there are near us? Haven't found a group for one yet.

You're by definition not likely to find many *P*G homeschoolers - having two together is unusual enough! - but maybe if you put out a call for "people who are homeschooling mainly or partly because school wasn't providing enough challenge" you might build a group that worked? Something to think about in the New Year, perhaps.

Oh, I get it. She's on your side. Phew!

SDMom and ColinsMum-I think it's important to find the right group of homeschoolers to associate with because people do it for so many reasons and some are lazy about it. SDMom knows a group of religious homeschoolers would never work for Butter, who thinks we should go back to worshiping the Greek gods (they are more interesting, lol!) Her comments caused quite the sensation in the 2nd grade last year, where several of her friends were making their first communion.

I think both the homeschool options we are looking at are good places to find other HS friends to hang out with...

2gift: I am SO happy to read your updates. As I said on another thread your whole story made me sad and brought me back to the terrible situation my dd had in school last year. These recent posts are bringing back the relief I felt the last day when dd said "I am NOT going back to this school!" and I could promise her she would not have to go back there ever again. It sounds like a great plan - homeschool until winter break while you get your testing done and examine your options. You will be viewed as a take-charge parent who WILL have a say in her child's education. As was said upthread you and your dd will likely know almost immediately if a new school is a good fit. And I can tell you from our experience this year the right teacher who "gets" your child and her situation along with a school who wants to work with you makes all the difference in the world.

Thanks for making my day!