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    #8129 - 01/31/08 01:05 PM Relation of OLSAT's to giftedness
    chocolatelover Offline
    New Member

    Registered: 01/31/08
    Posts: 1
    There is so much expertise here on this site, I would appreciate some advice. Does anyonee know if there is any strong correlation between a very high OLSAT score and a high IQ test score? Since our 8 year seemed unusually bright to us (but what do we know), we had her aptitude tested last year, and the test taker concluded with surprising "glee" that while she was smarter then normal, she definitley was not gifted. Our daughter relayed afterwards that she was not too comfortable with the testing environment, and the results did not comport with our assessment of her intelligence, but we assumed the test taker knew what she was talking about, and that was that. But we just learned our daughter had scored a perfect 150 on the OLSAT test she had taken last year in second grade(i.e., 150 overall on the SAI, as well as 150 each on the verbal and non-verbal sub-parts), answering every question on the test correctly. The school thought the result so unusual they are treating her as if she is especially gifted. So here's my long-winded question: while the OLSAT's are not designed to be an IQ test, but rather a school aptitude test, would it be unusual for a child to score very high on the OLSAT's and yet not exceptionally well on an IQ test? I just have the gut feeling that perhaps the IQ test was not accurate, and wonder if we should have her IQ tested again sometime in the future. She is a happy, well-adjusted kid -- so the whole question is relatively unimportant -- other then I would be a bit peeved if the IQ test giver was so far off. Thanks for any advice.

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    #8131 - 01/31/08 01:33 PM Re: Relation of OLSAT's to giftedness [Re: chocolatelover]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Hi Chocolatelover,
    Welcome!
    Oh Dear! This is very confusing. I wish children had their 'real' IQ scores hidden in some place where we could check, perhaps under their arms? But that would take a lot of the fun out of life, I guess.

    There are about 1000 different versions of Gifted, so if one tester says gifted and the other doesn't it's hard to know what it means. I believe that as a parent the BEST way to think about giftedness is "Does this particular child have special educational needs, beyond what is being provided at her school, at this time?"

    In the long run, it can be very difficult to tell if your child does have special educational needs. Unless they are one of those loud, competitive, bold children who stage a sit-in demanding above age level work. But don't well behaved, cooperative children deserve to learn how to learn at age 8 as well? A little afterschooling can go a long way to help you see if she enjoys stuff that other kids wouldn't enjoy at her age level. If you keep it fun, and take turns taking the lead, it's a great way to know your child.

    The next step is to spend some time in the classroom, and get acquainted with what your child's agemates are like.

    If you still have the report of your IQ score, send Dottie and me a private message with the subscore breakdowns for a little unprofessional back street driving.

    You can always wait a few years and let her try the talent search tests (EXPLORE, and SAT) to see if you can get a clearer picture of where she stands relative to her agemates.

    Every Child Deserves to be thought about well.

    Enjoy and Good Luck,
    Grinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #8132 - 01/31/08 01:47 PM Re: Relation of OLSAT's to giftedness [Re: Dottie]
    pinkpanther Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/19/07
    Posts: 175
    Originally Posted By: Dottie
    Is your daughter very outgoing? Many quiet/reserved children will score lower on a one-on-one IQ test than on a group/paper one.


    I agree with Dottie that this could be the reason for the discrepancy. I was painfully shy as a child and I have horrid memories of my IQ testing experience. I know for a fact that I was nervous, uncooperative, and generally a wreck. As a result, my parents were told I wasn't gifted. I have no idea what my scores were, but I always did well on the OLSAT and group achievement tests. I was finally identified as gifted in 5th or 6th grade but I'm not sure what they used.

    I agree with Dottie that if it's an advantage to have her identified, then seek out a tester who would be a good match for her.

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    #8134 - 01/31/08 03:28 PM Re: Relation of OLSAT's to giftedness [Re: Grinity]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Originally Posted By: Grinity
    I wish children had their 'real' IQ scores hidden in some place where we could check, perhaps under their arms?


    How about a barcode on their rears that only parents could scan?

    smile
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #10330 - 03/04/08 12:22 PM Re: Relation of OLSAT's to giftedness [Re: Kriston]
    OliEli's Mom Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/04/08
    Posts: 25
    Loc: Pennsylvania
    Hi, I'm new to this forum, so bear with me! My daughter recently took the OLSAT in her 2nd grade class as a screening for their gifted program. Her verbal was 144, non-verbal 125? (I don't have it in front of me, sorry) and total (SAI?) 135...

    She now must go on to have further individual screening w/ the school district psychologist, and my concerns are:

    I knew she might be gifted, but though it might not show up on the OLSAT since she can be very destractable when doing work on her own. If she goes on for further individual testing and does poorly, is this type of individual test more indicative of her abilities, or could it also reflect her destractability on that given day? In other words, if she does poorly during the second round of individual tests, should I just disregard the OLSAT scores? They, especially her verbal, seemed so good.

    Thanks for any input,
    OliEli's mom
    _________________________
    OliEli's Mom

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    #10336 - 03/04/08 12:35 PM Re: Relation of OLSAT's to giftedness [Re: OliEli's Mom]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    They are very good scores!

    There's a saying that a child can do worse than his/her best on an IQ test because of a lot of factors (bad night's sleep, not enough to eat, boredom, itchy socks, etc.), but a child cannot do better than his/her best. With some caveats, this is something I pretty much believe. It is just one score on just one day, but it is one score and your DD achieved it.

    Group testing tends to be much less GT-friendly than an individual IQ test with someone trained in testing GT kids, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if your DD's scores go up, not down.

    Generally speaking, I wouldn't "disregard" any info about your child. Just add new stuff to the pile and keep watching. The picture will shift, but if you know the circumstances of the test, even a bad test day can add to the picture that's forming of your child.

    Finally, be aware that if she scores above 145 on parts of the SB5 or the WISC (whichever she's taking), and she has achievement test scores in the same range, she may be eligible for the Davidson Young Scholars program (a.k.a. DYS). See here for details: http://www.ditdgifted.org/Articles.aspx?ArticleID=252&NavID=0_35
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #10346 - 03/04/08 12:53 PM Re: Relation of OLSAT's to giftedness [Re: Dottie]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Yup, I do think there are some caveats. Many have to do with flaws in the testing instruments, IMHO.

    For example, the age of the child at the time of testing matters: a 4yo reader is generally going to score higher on the WPPSI than s/he really should, I think. [Oops! See Dottie's correction below]

    Also, I think there's some luck involved in the test questions a child gets. Despite attempts to take Fund Of Knowledge issues out of IQ tests, I think there's still some there. So I think it's possible to have a score that is unrepeatable.

    Even if that happens, I don't think that necessarily means that the score was too high. It was one score, on one day, and it should be factored in with all the other information. If all the other info says the score was skewed a bit high, then you go with that. But you should also keep in the back of your mind the fact that the child has scored that well at least once.

    Disregard nothing! Fit the pieces in where they go.


    Edited by Kriston (03/04/08 01:13 PM)
    Edit Reason: Oops! Dottie caught my mistake. Thanks Dottie!
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #10361 - 03/04/08 01:20 PM Re: Relation of OLSAT's to giftedness [Re: Dottie]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    That's what I get for trying to talk to my kids and type at the same time!

    Yes, achievement test score issues, not IQ issues for early readers!
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #10373 - 03/04/08 01:48 PM Re: Relation of OLSAT's to giftedness [Re: Dottie]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    I don't know. I was just getting more cereal for DS3 while he told me about something that happened on "Arthur" sometime long ago while I was simultaneously telling DS6 that he still has to do his writing for the day.

    grin

    Thanks for the kudos. I just didn't want to steer anyone wrong, but I didn't want to change it and make you look looney, when clearly I'm the looney one!

    smile
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #11071 - 03/10/08 12:49 PM Re: Relation of OLSAT's to giftedness [Re: Dottie]
    OliEli's Mom Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/04/08
    Posts: 25
    Loc: Pennsylvania
    Thank you both so much for your insightful input! (and sorry I didn't get back sooner - I left my info on this page here at work, and I'm only here twice a week...).

    My daughter is in 2nd grade and almost 8 years old. She has been a highly verbal child since 18 months old, and is not generally a shy kid. So perhaps she'll find her individual test "fun!"

    I'm new to the GT world, as I always considered her bright, but didn't know much about GT or advocating for it...

    My daughter is interested in doing so many things, and gets very upset when she hears about things other kids are doing that she can't be involved in (science fair is only for 4th grade and up in our public school, Romeo & Juliet being performed in a local co-op home school her cousin goes to...). She gets upset to the point of being grumpy & moody, and I never even considered that this could be a sign of GT frustrations?

    In any case, my only concern now is that this identification process takes so LONG - (in our school district they screen w/ OLSAT in January of 2nd grade, and then the individual screenings [OLSAT 90th percentile & above - doesn't this seem too inclusive? My DD was 99th percentile] get scheduled from April through till beginning of next school year...)

    So, I plan to learn more about GT while we wait, and do some at-home science w/ DD! (Mummifying flowers?!) Romeo & Juliet will have to wait...

    All best,
    _________________________
    OliEli's Mom

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