Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Just had first meeting with princ about sub accel

The SCAT is a standardized test, taken by computer at a Prometric test center, and it is used by the Johns Hopkins CTY talent search. What part of the country do you live in? Other talent searches serving various regions use the EXPLORE , which I recommend over (or in addition to ) the SCAT if possible.

I am not aware of any federal law that requires a school to provide IQ testing (or testing of any variety) unless there is the potential for special needs. State laws might vary of course. Not saying there isn't a federal law, but I don't think so.

I agree with Bostonian that Explore would be a preferred test, but since it won't be offered again until January, SCAT is the next best thing (and Sydness you can sign up to take SCAT pretty much anytime and Prometric centers are all over the place I think).

Ultimately IQ testing would be very helpful, but if your focus in on changing the school's position, I am not sure it will be worth much. Some parents are very confident in their perception of their children, but I found that having IQ results and SCAT tests made me feel much more justified in my advocacy efforts, and that helped me push ahead.

One thing I find interesting is that the VP seemed to admit they were not doing much for your child and that she needed "more," but kept saying they could not do this or that. Can you try to pin the school down on why they are so adverse to the subject acceleration. Initially our school hesitated because they didn't think DS was "so special." Once we had test scores showing he was, there were concerns about the floodgates issue (which never developed), social issues (which are not present although the concern continues), scheduling issues (which are valid but can be remedied if so desired). We just kept pushing against each concern politely and emphatically. We are not all the way there yet.

One other thing that can help is finding just one person in district who thinks what you are asking is reasonable. Sometimes people just don't want to be responsible for a decision that is unique or could cause problems, and if you find someone who will take responsibility, that can make all the difference.

Ultimately, you may have to do as Bostonian suggests, and focus on what you can provide.

I've been in your shoes too. Good for you stick up for your child. This is hard. I suggest looking into other options too, even if you are not ready to make a move now. It takes time to figure out a better move if you need it.

Also be careful about how much you push the teacher next year, because she can take it out on your child.

Get into Davidson ASAP and it might just work out that they talk to the school on your child's behalf in Sept. Also, consider have a Pschologist with gifted expertise present to the school DC's needs.

Good point. I'm not qualified to understand this criteria (I'm talented in art, not law) , but for what it's worth, I posted what I heard.

Wow! Thank you for ALL your resoponses. I'm still trying to figure it out.

The differentiation program they have sounds great in theory. They pretest on every unit. Then, the kids are divided into 5 groups where each group is working at the level they need the most work in.

They have placed her with a teacher who they say "knows how to accelerate kids." They says he can bring through pre-algebra in 4 and 5 and then in 6th she could could take algebra...but she didn't seem sure about that point.

We live in CT...southeastern. The law here is: They are required to identify, but not provide services for gifted. They take a group test at the end of 4th grade to identify.

DD9 has decided that if she worked hard on the 4th grade material over the summer, then she will do well on the end 0f year 4th grade assessment given during the first week of 4th grade to all students. If she does well, and I will have to pester to get the grade as they don't send it home, then I will be certain to demand to see the 5th grade math book she is working in. I did tell her that there was no way that they would skip anyone and she WAS so disappointed. I felt so bad, like I was letting her down. She said she wanted to be with the 5th graders. She is very socially advanced as well.

When I talked about her social issues the VP started to listen. Never listened about her abilities...but when I told her that the kids were labeling her as the "smart girl," and relying on her to do their work and yelling at her when she didn't do it good enough (score a goal in gym while they sat back and yelled) or finish the whole math project while the rest of her group is fooling around.

The VP actually seemed concerned about that part. Interesting to me. She also seemed interested in her friends, how her close friends are at least a year older and she is accepted and loved by them. And she is tall. And she is with the older kids in ballet.

Those are the things she was most interested in. She hardly looked at the WJ scores. UGH!

Anyway. I have to figure this thing out. She did let me know that she too is the proud parent of a child who was making change out of $5 in Kindergarten and she was very happy with the level of challenge he was receiving. Ugh Ugh!

I will re-read all your posts in the morning! We have in-laws in from Vegas and it's been CRAZY around here!

also...onthegomom...YES! I will be careful how much I push the teacher. I would rather her not learn anything than to feel like she is hated everyday. First things first...

I would be very happy with the differentiation IF they do it. So, with a little support from this forum, I will actually "drop the skip" for now, see her her cmt comes back in July (CT ST Mastery Test) and try to meet with her teacher in the beginning of the year. They really did make it sound like a dream school. I just have a hard time accepting this because I have been told this so many times in the past!

This is actually good news. Let's say, for the moment, that the IQ scores come back showing a nice bright girl who has plenty of company at grade level - well then in that case the IQ result won't be helpful in getting a subject acceleration, but might be helpful chosing the right path.

But she didn't say "No - IQ tests never help!" So I think she is signalling that they are open to looking at the IQ test.

It might be good to try asking 'Are there any testers around here who are particularly good at explaining to parents what all those numbers mean?'

because you would like to ask: 'Are there any testers around here that you would believe if the results came back unusually high?'

Love and More Love,
Grinity

This is an excellent idea. A friend of mine used this approach:
Write down and circulate all the good ideas,
pretend you didn't hear the bad ideas and keep going higher up the chain of command until you get what your child needs.

BTW - it seems to me that what your child needs right now isn't nescessarily a 'math subject acceleration' but perhaps a whole grade skip (the kids were acting up in PE for Pete's Sake!) but surely a WISC IV, either from the school or privately.


I dont' know why you would put up with your DD being given a 5th grade math book all by herself in the 4th grade room. Would they let you partial homeschool her and do the math at home with you? If not, then why would they be willing for her to be by herself with no peers and barely a teacher in the 4th grade math room?


Here's a stragagy you might find helpful. It's the
1-2-3:
1: smile and give lots of postive body language
2: Act like something terrific is happening - 'so you know what it's like to have a child who doesn't learn in one subject in school!'
3: Add the twist, "I'm so glad that you son was able to be challenged overall and things turned out well for him. Can you imagine if all of his school interactions were like that, in every subject, every single year? It's so great when the other kids catch up, just a matter of waiting, but can you imagine what it would have been like for your son if the other kids never caught up?"

or "It's great that kids from this school have gone to Harvard. But even amoung kids who have the ability to go to Harvard, there is a tremendous diversity of what the child needs at any particular stage. I'm really glad that the child was able to be successful through out their years, and go to Harvard, but I know other children who were just as smart but decided that it was better to fit in and pretend to be just like everyone else than to go to Harvard. And I know kids who just gave up on school and did poorly, even though they were smart enough to go to a school like Harvard. I am concerned that my daughter might be on a different path, and I believe that (insert intervention X here) might really make a key difference.

Then you follow up with:Thanks so much for your time and sharing so many stories with me, and I can see that you are very interested in helping my child grow and develop. I feel that without an IQ test such as the WISC that we do not have all the tools availible to build a good future for my DD, so I will be contacting the Principle to request a WISC test as the next step.

That way you haven't burned any bridges with VP, and can move onto the P, asking for 'more data.' I would email it to both and yourself to save a copy, and print it out and snail mail to both and keep on copy for your 'timeline.'

Your daughter might well be able to recieve proper Math instruction in the regular classroom with the very good teacher. But you really need to be able to relax and say 'she is one amoung several similars' or 'no, she has special educational needs, and need interventions that haven't been tried before.' At this point you just don't know as much as you need to know.

If it helps, I see WJ as a measure of where she is now, and WISC as more of a 'crystal ball' to see how different she is in her thinking from her peers. As you know, there is no such thing as a crystal ball, which explains why all these tests don't always provide all the answers, but, very often, they really help everyone understand that child that is in front of them.

And if that doesn't work, sit her down for an SAT and start waving those scores around! When my son was in 4th grade, I happened to mention that I was planning for him to thak the SAT in 7th grade. My very lovely elementary school principle almost fainted! I was sad that she hadn't even heard of the talent search programs. I think that so often the gifted parents and even excellent school folks are just living to different worlds.

Smiles,
Grinity

OMG! Did her really take the SAT in 7th grade? I HAVE to hear THAT story!

I seriously might need to copy your paragraphs word for word!
I get so frazzled around the administration! I am not the advanced person who needs a challenge! I'm just a regular gal! My husband's IQ is about 153...Ugh! lol!

I didn't sign up for this...and all of you guys who say that even if the IQ test shows ME that I need to keep pushing, then it would be worth the money...

I am flip flopping so much. I'm gunna call around and see what they cost. Why is everyone taking the WISC and not the SB?

Since I don't this the school is going to tell me which they like better...I may have to chose myself.

I DID find out today, while I was at the (free) town beach, that a mom got her pre-schooler (pre-school at the elementary school) to attend 1st grade for reading. So it HAS and can be done! But the teacher gave the recommendation. Mine don't seem to be, although they aren't saying they won't. I did inform her current teacher of what I was requestion for next year and said.."I assume a teacher recommendation helps." No response.

So, thanx so much for all your advice!
Hopefully I will be posting soon, that my daughter scored and 125 on her IQ test and should be fine working in the 4th grade classroom...but why do I doubt this?