First off, I want to say how much I enjoy reading the posts on this forum - it is really nice to be able to talk/read about issues my kid is having or will possibly have in the future. Although my DD4 is not as high as many of the children discussed here (she's barely in the HG range according to the new WPPSI-III), it has been very tough finding other parents of advanced kids with whom to converse without sounding like some sort of braggart!

ANYWAY, my post really has to do with those of you who homeschool or happen to have taught your child on a more formal basis - I have checked out the local elementary school (we live in supposedly the best district in the area) and was not impressed with the relatively low level of instruction in kindergarten. However, as a middle/high school teacher, I am working on my endorsement to teach in a gifted classroom, and I have the opportunity to take a position teaching gifted pull out in an elementary school in our urban district (average test scores with a so-so reputation) for next year. This would also provide me with the opportunity to take my DD with me for K. I'm sure I can get her qualified for gifted services (district cutoff FSIQ is only 128), but I'm not sure she will do well with me as her teacher for a large part of the day. Sometimes I feel like we already have a parent-teenager relationship (she is very intense!), and I'm a bit apprehsive about how it might go. We also have the opportunity to send her to a highly reknowned Montessori school, but it's very expensive and it will be somewhat of a struggle to pay for it.

So, any advice about what it's been like being your own kid's teacher? We're really torn between local district (with good reputation), expensive Montessori, and bringing DD with me to a less than stellar school but mostly being with me as her teacher.

Personally I really like the idea of having DD with you. I'm in the situation of having DD6 in the local district with a good reputation but find it's still a challenge.

This is only loosely related but I've taught Sunday school with DD's in the class. At first they were hanging on me, so we had a talk about treating me like a teacher in the classroom. They understood it when I put it in terms of fairness and other children not having their mothers with them.

Having a DD4 who's very intense, I can understand your apprehension. I've found she's much better in the classroom for me than at home.

Looking forward to hearing other perspectives on this interesting choice of options.

I would do it in a heartbeat. I have a great relationship with my son. I think it is about the approach. Right now I homeschool my son and he does great. I know when to push and when to back off. I think that fosters a lot of respect. People told me to be ready for a change in our relationship. While I think they meant for the negative, I have seen so much positive. He has been giving me so many more hugs. I love it. I'm sure it would depend on your personalities. Good luck!

I have had some trouble when teaching my own child with other kids. I think it can be hard for a child to have to share mom, and there can be some acting out. I've seen this in both my 4yo and my 7yo, and other homeschooling moms who have taught a group of kids that includes their own have had the same probem--even when they're teens! We were commiserating about it one day, so I think it's pretty common to have some trouble.

I'm not saying don't do it. But I would prepare her ahead of time to share you, and I wouldn't be surprised if she acts immaturely compared to her usual behavior sometimes.

Teaching your child one-on-one is very different from teaching your own child in a group, I'm afraid. Kids have trouble recognizing the changing nature of your relationship from "my mom" to "teacher for all these kids."

Kriston - that's what I'm concerned about. I think she'll be different than normal in a group of kids, and she tends to be really clingy and emo in large groups (until she's comfortable). Although the pullout program will probably only have 5-8 kids in the room at one time (most likely multi-age), I'm not sure it's such a good idea. I do know she's a much different kid at her preschool than she is at home! Thanks for sharing your experience.

Well, like I said, I think if you prepare her ahead of time, it might be perfectly fine. Or it might be a minor annoyance for you that you just deal with. I don't think it necessarily has to be a deal-breaker. Just something to consider and plan for.

What happens if you try it and it is a dismal failure? Is there a back-up plan possible? That would be the way I'd go, I think: try to prep her and have a Plan B in place if it's just not working.

Well, the short answer is that we'll probably have to stay with whatever we decide for at least a year. The Montessori school fills quickly, so that would be a no-go if teaching her in my own classroom didn't work out. We could still enroll her in our neighborhood school, but they only have 1/2 day kindergarten so we'd be scrambling trying to find quality afternoon child care (the good places fill early). So we'll probably need to stick with our first choice, whatever it is....right now, I am leaning toward taking her with me - but we'll see what I think of things after I meet the reg. ed. K teachers at the end of next month.

There is also the possibility of staying in my current position (teaching science) and getting her into the dual language magnet school nearby. I've been reading good things about language immersion on this board, and that is an option for us well.

So many choices!!

Could you volunteer to teach something to a group of kids and include her in it? Just to see how she'll do before you make a decision? That might be your best option at this point. Even if it's just kids of friends or something that you lock in a room for an hour while you talk about science, it might help you to see how she'd fare.

We also live in the best school district in our area. Actually we moved here specifically for that reason (in preparation for DS starting K). I wish I would have know I would end up HSing.....we could have saved ourselves a big huge mortgage. LOL!

DS went to public K and 1 month of 1st grade. I had several meetings with teachers and even the principal during that time, and no one had any interest in helping my son. Even the "gifted" program that he would have been in for the 2nd half of 1st grade was a joke. It was 45min 1 time per week. And all they worked on were critical thinking skills for 1st graders. We have been HSing for 1 1/2 years now, and it has truly been a blessing. He loves it, I love it, so it works out great.

Even the best teacher in the best school, can't give my child the quality of education that I want for him. Not when they have 20 or more kids to educate also. Now I will say that DD5 will be going to public K in the fall. She really wants to, and I think she will enjoy it. At least now I won't have too high of expectations. If she wants to come back home for 1st grade, then great!

RJH -

I know what you mean about the so-called gifted programs at a young age. Our "best in the area" district offers K-1 kids 20 minutes of pull out ONE DAY per week. By the time they get down to the resource room, it's time to come back!!

This seems to be a common theme among many of the posters in this forum - lots of us moved to our current districts specifically for the school systems, and we've been sorely disappointed. In contrast, the neighboring urban district is fairly progressive in their gifted programming (at least, compared to many other large districts). Why such a huge difference?? I'm beginning to think we should have stayed in the "big city!" :-)

count me in on that one - although I will say that with the gradeskip in place, I'm not dissapointed with my son's experience in the public middle school. There was sore dissapointment back in the elementary school days. And a good does of 'We are an excellent school system, so we don't have to be flexible!' was very hard on us back then.

Hi Jen,
I have an idea you haven't mentioned, but I'm sure you must have thought about: Enroll her in First Grade at the neighborhood school! That way you solve the half day problem and the HG problem in a single stroke. Cool, huh?

I have minimal experience about trying to teach other kids while my son is in the room, but I doubt very much that it would bring out the best in him. It isn't unusual for Gifties to be very intense, and the little ones are much worse at 'faking it.' During Kindy, I would come into his daycare that provided before and aftercare for him, mostly so I could snoop around, once every 2 weeks and bring computer programs and introduce the kids and teachers to the programs. DS took it as an opportunity to 'help' me and boss the other kids around. Not good! He was clearly very jealous of me 'concentrating' on other kids. Some of us have noticed that certian little Gifties are a powerful form of birth control as well.

Here's my thought: These young ones experience a much greater % of the world than they are emotionally ready to handle. Having Mom around to 'clarify' this high number of puzzling experiences is a good stratagy. Other Adults (sadly sometimes including Dad) talk down to the preschooler, don't give useful information fast enough, can't intuit what information the preschooler needs next, and laught at them because they seem 'cute.' Is it any wonder that they 'defend' their turf?

So I would seriously consider a placement in first, perhaps with subject accelerations as needed. There is nothing 'slight' about Highly Gifted. HG really stands out amoung even a crowd of MG (Moderatly Gifted - the vast majority of the gifted population) unless you have a very skewed population. The fact that you can't just blab away about your concerns with your neighbors tells me that you are not living in one of these unusual places, see what I mean?

Anyway - If you have access to the Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual, take a look and then ask us more questions!

One thing I love about starting the school experience with kids one year older, is that you eliminate a lot of questions, and also that your daughter gets a chance to keep the friends she makes. There is also an excellent chance that the social fit will be much better.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Hi Grinity,

Thanks so much for your thoughts - I did have a fleeting moment when I considered a grade skip, but I have a number of reservations (not the least of which is the fact that I've never heard of it being done in our district). They are:

1. My kid is quite small for her age, and she also has a late spring birthday.

2. The idea of sending a young 17-year-old off to college is a bit disconcerting!

3. She is not reading well yet.

4. There are days when I just don't see her as "that smart." Does that make sense? I don't have a lot to compare her to, but I keep thinking that she can't be THAT much smarter than the status quo in this district full of doctor's and lawyer's kids...and some days, she does stuff that totally AMAZES me, but other days I think, "This kid's GIFTED??"

Reasons I've considered acceleration:

1. Her math achievement testing showed her at a k.9 level at age 4 1/2 (not super high, but easily 1-2 years ahead with no formal math instruction). Reading achievement wasn't tested because she was only starting to sound out words at that time.

2. She much prefers the company of older kids or adults. When we had her at a gifted preschool, she had tons of friends (both older and same-age) - but we were forced to pull her for logistical reasons. She is now in a regular preschool in our district, and she hates it. She says she has no friends, and I never see her interact with anyone there except her younger sister (age 3). The worst part is that she doesn't really complain about it - just seems to accept the fact that she doesn't have any friends and plays at stations by herself.

3. K in our district is only 1/2 day, and she appears to have mastered nearly all of the end-of-year expectations. What she doesn't have (i.e., being able to effectively write out all numbers up to 100), I could easily work on over the summer. Also, since K is only 1/2 day, she will have to go somewhere for afterschool care - effectively a baby-sitting service that most likely will have no real learning experiences.

Anyway, I will order a copy of the Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual and take a look - perhaps it will help make things a little clearer. Thanks for the insight!

Yes, that's exactly the situation here. But I feel like everything happens for a reason. We might not have ever discovered HSing if we hadn't moved here. Plus I love my current town. I really feel bad for the gifted kids here, though.

Around here, 1st grade is the "learn to read" year, so I wouldn't worry about sending a child who isn't yet reading well up to 1st grade. It would probably be a pretty good fit. But if K is the big "learn to read" year in your school, then I might think twice about acceleration.

I also wouldn't worry too much about sending a 17yo to college. If it's a huge concern, you could always do a planned de-acceleration in high school, when there's more challenge and perhaps even free college credits available. Or she could take a year off to work or travel or attend community college. But it always seems silly to me to worry about what will happen 10 or 12 years from now with kids like these. Sometimes I can't figure out next month! Take the problems as they come and try to solve the ones that are right in front of you without stressing excessively about problems that might never even become problems, you know? I'd send a mature, self-assured 17yo off to college before an immature, insecure 19yo any day!

If she does well with older kids, then I wouldn't worry so much about her size, especially since she's a girl. That just isn't such an issue for girls.

As for the "Is she really THAT smart?" issue: I'm not clear on what testing she's had, aside from the math achievement testing that showed her 1-2 years ahead. Did you say she had the WPPSI? Sorry to be forgetful...I have been sick! But I can't tell if this is a real concern or just GT denial. (It sounds just like denial, but I want to be fair! )

P.S. I just saw your note about how bad the community college is in your area, so feel free to disregard that option if you like. Though in 10 or 12 years, you may be in a different place, too, one with a great CC! So maybe don't disregard, but just keep in the very, very back of your mind...

Good point about the reading - here, K is responsible for numerous sight words (which DD4 already knows), but 1st grade is the "reading" year. She is picking things up rather quickly now with the Word Wall concept, so I expect she'll be well on her way by the end of the summer.

Her WPPSI was FSIQ 139, Verbal = 141, Performance = 135. Processing brough the FSIQ down; she had only a 110 on that (psych said she was very much a perfectionist during the test). To me, her score is not that high - especially considering what some of you all are dealing with! But when I visited the K room in our district, my first thought was "Wow, she's doing that NOW. What's she going to learn next year?"

I hadn't seriously considered the grade skip until Grin's post last night, but I happened to mention it to my DH before going to bed, and he LOVED the idea. So perhaps we've got some thinking to do....

At this point, however, I'm not even sure how we'd approach the school.

I dunno. That's quite high.

And if she had any ceiling issues with the WPPSI--not to mention perfectionism issues that might be masking her abilities, too--then perhaps she's even higher than her scores show. Processing speed can make a difference in how a child fits in school, but it isn't really all that relevant to intelligence proper. And if the problem is perfectionism more than actual inability to work fast, well, that's a different issue. That doesn't affect school work nearly so much as just plain slowness.

Do they give a GAI on the WPPSI (as they do on the WISC)? I'd be looking at that if they do. I'm betting it's off the charts!

Her scores certainly seem quite high enough for you to be considering a grade skip. So for the "Is she really THAT smart" issue, I'm voting that you have GT denial, not valid concern. I think a grade skip might be just the thing for her.

Thanks for all of your insights! Dottie, do you mind sharing your DD14's LOG? I see your "what-if" questions as very valid concerns, and it might help to know how our kids might compare. As for "finally grouping" in middle school, I couldn't agree more that it should be done in elementary. In a normal school setting there might be 2-4 HG kids per grade level - problem is, the principal will split them up to be fair to EACH TEACHER so the test scores aren't skewed (thus making one teacher look better than the others). Never mind about what's best for KIDS! Anyway, that's why HG kids tend to be alone in reg. ed. classrooms throughout elementary. Middle school tends to automatically separate them out because of elective Advanced Skills classes and/or math tracks. That's one reason we considered Montessori for the elementary years - I feel like if we can get DD4 through grade 5, she'll be okay after that. Maybe that's wishful thinking, though?

Kriston - they don't do a GAI for the WPPSI, as the processing counts for much less on that test than it does on the WISC-IV. It probably brought her FSIQ down somewhat, but I don't think it could be by more than 1 or 2 points. Maybe Dottie has more insight on that...

Again, thanks for your comments - you've given me a lot to chew on!

Dottie,

This is excellent food for thought - thanks! Interesting that your kids are quite different LOG - we have sort of assumed that our DD3 is nowhere near DD4, and that she'll probably be fine in reg. ed. Kindy in 2 years (making our decision on where to place DD4 even tougher). However, DD3 has recently started spontaneously reading the words on DD4's Word Wall - so we started one in her room as well (which she's very excited about!). Thus far, I'd say she's nowhere near DD4 in terms of articulation or vocabulary or critical thinking - but the early reading thing makes her an enigma. :-)

Do your kids have any sibling rivalry over their different LOG?

Obviously, we'll be putting a lot of thought into a possible grade skip - it's not something to be taken lightly (especially considering that DD4's b-day is nowhere near the cutoff). Thanks for providing another perspective!

Amen to that!
DH wanted me to work with #2 because he didn't think she was getting as much exposure to letters and sounds as #1 had at the same age. This is because #1 had more 1:1 time with adults. #2's world revolves around playing with big sister. When #1 started K, I spent more 1:1 time with #2. She rapidly progressed from ABCs to picking up reading about a year earlier than #1 had picked it up.

Thanks for all your thoughts everyone - after much thought, my DH and I have decided to wait on the K skip for a couple of reasons:

1. I talked to some of the local school staff, and they STRONGLY discourage it based on late spring b-day, not reading well yet, and being "untested" in a formal school setting. Basically, they aren't willing to allow early 1st grade entrance based only on a set of test scores, no matter how good they are. I got the standard, "Many of our students perform well in the primary years due to enriched preschool experiences - they tend to all even out by 3rd grade." I know we could fight this, but I don't feel strongly enough that it's the right thing to take on that battle.

2. Apparently, it's become quite a trend in our district for parents of children with spring/summer b-days to hold them out of kindergarten for a year so they'll be "ahead" in both academics and sports as they get older. This would mean that DD4 would actually be in class with a lot of kids who are 2 or more years older (rather than just one). This just seems like too big an age difference for us at this point.

So anyway, I really appreciate all of the advice - currently, we're going to try to decide between sending both girls to Montessori or taking them with me where I'll be teaching gifted elementary. If I do end up taking this new position, I'll probably be asking for a lot of creative classroom advice, as I'll really be a middle school science teacher disguised as an elementary teacher! :-)

These were the very same reasons we didn't try to skip our DS7 and opted for homeschooling instead. (Though no one gave us the "they all even out by 3rd grade" speech, which is good because I'd have been rolling my eyes BIG TIME at that, as I really, really hope you were doing!!!)

Just be aware that you may want to force the issue a bit once she *is* in a school situation and you can see how she fits with those older kids. You may find you're changing your mind pretty doggone fast about that skip!

For our DS7, the choices were clear by 1st grade: grade skip--probably more than once in a couple of years--or homeschool. If your DD is not as prone to act on feelings of frustration, you may not see this as easily as we did. If you're the teacher, it's probably not a problem this year. But if you're not teaching her or in future years, be on the lookout. She may need more.

I hope whatever you decide is a great solution for your DD!