This almost sounds too good to be true, I would love to hear some feedback I can trust (beyond testimonies featured on their own website)
http://www.cogmed.com/consumersOr MindSparke?
http://mindsparke.com/
Hi Nik,
I don't know those programs, but if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
Usually if they claim to "cure" something that is widely known not to have a cure, like ADHD, I get suspicious. Or if they claim to fix ADHD, autism, and OCD... with the same exercises. If it were that easy, every pediatrician in the country would be on board.
I'm a fan of this checklist for distinguishing real science from quack science:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pseudo.htmlDeeDee
Like DeeDee I am also very cautious of quacks. BUT I don't necessarily agree that treatments that work are always quickly picked up and become widespread amongst the medical community. There are many areas where many (the majority of?) Drs don't use evidence based care but rather do "what they know" instead, maternity care for example.
And there are things that are new now that everyone will be doing in 10 years time... When I first looked into Metformin for PCOS 10+ years ago there was ONE endocrinologist in Australia who was looking at possibly doing trials of this radical new approach to treatment of PCOS, but wasn't actually doing so yet. Now GPs are prescribing Metformin left right and center. Same with Domperidone for poor milk supply.
So I don't assume that because something is not wide spread it is not effective a) it may not be an approach that is going to appeal to the medical community and so may get ignored even if it works and b) it might be huge in 10 years time. Both things happen. The trick is in figuring out what is hocus pocus and what is "real".
We used Cogmed for ds13 in grade 5, 3 years ago. DS13 is dyslexic, CAPD (really poor hearing in noise), ADD inattentive, prone to anxiety. He has average to poor visual memory, average to good auditory memory.
He had major problems with writing 3 years ago. He forgot what he wanted to say because he drew his letters and took a long time to write. This caused tons of issues in his GT classroom. I did some reading that made me think that part of his learning issues involved poor working memory, particularly the visual memory. There were a number of articles I found that suggested poor working memory was a factor in ADHD. I was looking for a non-medication tool because I wanted to avoid a mix of anti-anxiety meds and stimulants.
The 5 weeks of Cogmed were really rough to get through, because DS was perfectionistic, and every time he got better at the computer games, things got harder. One session took 90 minutes instead of the 30 minutes we expected. On the other hand, he started writing several paragraphs at school, and did a poem without anybody scribing for him. The teacher asked me what I did with my child. We were thrilled, and the gains in writing still remain. He was never impulsive, and his attention issues were sub-clinical (not much worse that average) when tested with the TOVA. He is just very distractible with noise and movement.
He is doing quite well this year, not the top student in his class, but pretty good given his LD's. He still needs reminders to hand in assignments, and writes in his planner about half the time, so not everything got fixed. Some of his best marks these days are in writing, (as long as he users a computer with spellcheck). He only did the initial round of Cogmed, and not the follow-up sessions that are routinely done these days. I promised him that he did not have to do it ever again, because it was that rough for him. But it sure helped with writing.
I have heard of some people it helped and some it didn't.
Thanks DMA, writing is my DDs biggest issue too and right now that seems to be magically cured by the ADD meds but if a permanent improvement in that area alone could occur through brain exercises, I think she might be able to get by without the meds.
I think we will try out the MindSparke program as it is much cheaper and looks like it does the same thing. I just wonder if she should stop taking the meds while working with this or if it still yeilds beneficial results if you do the program aided by meds. Any thoughts?
Thanks for the link DeeDee, my DD is usually suspicious of anything unproven by science, but in this case she is willing to try it because it means computer time (she negotiated an equal amount of playtime on the PC as a reward for working through the program).
I don't really need something to be scientifically proven to want to try it unless it's an extreme medical procedure or potentially dangerous...Anecdotal support from people not marketing the product coupled with lack of negative reviews is good enough for me in this case.
Mumofthree, I am with you on that - my brother would have spent much of his childhood in a back brace if my mom hadn't been willing to try out chiropractic therapy, everyone thought she was insane back in the 70's, but it worked and he turned out just fine.
Nik -
I saw this detailed summary of someone's experience with Cogmed on a discussion forum for moms of kids with speical needs here:
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/120408.pageDon't know if you'd find it useful.
Nik, if your daughter uses Mindsparke, I'd try it with meds the first few times and then without to see what the differences are. Please let us know what kinds of results she gets after she finishes the training. I'd love to see a cheaper solution that works and can be used by more people.
I've heard of improvements with other tools such as Earobics (we're trying that one soon), FastForward and the Arrowsmith program (the last 2 are very pricey). We did in-depth phonics tutoring when ds was 6 and 7, and he now reads well even though his rapid naming and phonemic discrimination scores are still low. Ds is enrolled in a Mindfulness Martial Arts program that combines martial arts, yoga and meditation. It is targetted to kids with learning disabilities. He told me it is helping, and will enrol again next fall.
Eeema, I don't believe in a single fix that will make all problems go away. I just try to address the current problem with whatever tool I can find that I think won't cause worse problems.
I'm on the way out, so did not have time to read, just scaned but this new post seems related. Re: Boot Camp for Boosting IQ
Thanks barbarajean, that is a pretty timely report! It looks promising to me, our goal is not to score higher on an IQ test, just to help with focus, attention and working memory and those reports seem to indicate a reasonable potential for this type of brain training to work in that way.
I guess for an ADHD child, one might need to have a worthwhile reward handy to motivate full participation since everything I read stresses how tedious and boring the n back is.
DMA, we are going to do MindSparke for 20 days beginning next Tuesday. I will post back and let you know what we think about it.
Oh! This thread is so interesting to find! Does anyone have an update regarding their experiences with Cogmed or MindSparke? Or any other similar type programs? I am interested in helping my son (age 7 in Setpember) increase or help his working memory, which is low (he is not, however, dx with ADD ADHD and I don't think he has ADD/ADHD or if he does it is mild - he just seems to have the workign memory issues/deficits). Anyway, I have been looking for games and such to help. The Eides book (Mislabled Child) recommends CogMed. I've been lookign into the program on the internet but pretty much dismissed it due to cost. However, it turns out that a local psychologist offers the program in my area for $650 includes everything (assessement, program, feedback, boosters etc). That price is low enough for me to consider the program - if, in fact, it can help. I also came accross a free download of Mindsparke.
So any experiences and insights intot these or other similar programs would be much appreciated!
Nik,how did MindSparke work for your child?
Thanks!
Sorry I can't help, we ended up not trying it, at that time my DD was in a happy place with the new meds working nicely so we just dropped it.
The meds quit working while she was away at school and now we are doing neurofeedback which so far seems to be very promising.
Mary,
Do you mind passing along the contact information for the psychologist you mentioned?
Thank you!
Before anybody spends a lot of money on Cogmed, you may want to read a 2012 research article published by the America Psychological Association, which covers a variety of working memory training programs, including Cogmed. Here's the conclusion: "....the present literature provides insufficient evidence of its efficacy." Full article available at:
http://www.psychology.gatech.edu/renglelab/Publications/2011/Shipstead_Psych%20Bul.pdf
LeeannA, so sorry! Just seeing your post/question now! I found this guy:
http://tuckmanpsych.com/online/services/attention-training/Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA
203 W. Chestnut St.
West Chester, PA 19380
PH: 610-344-3442 / FAX: 610-344-7760
Ari@TuckmanPsych.com
We conversed via email about Cogmed and he quoted me the price of $650.00. He seemed nice enough but we never spoke in person and I have not yet followed through on getting Cogmed for my DS.
Thanks Schoolpsych, I am readign the article now.
Hello! This thread is almost 2 years old, but I joined so I could provide some feedback on Cogmed. The initial training is 25 sessions over 5 weeks, and is monitored by a licensed professional. After that, you are pretty much on your own, but you can certainly schedule appointments with the therapist, etc. to talk about subsequent training. I'm currently on training day 92.
I have adult ADHD, but wasn't diagnosed until I was 52. I decided to take the Cogmed training in hopes that it would improve my performance at work. I can honestly say there was some carryover from the lab to the workplace, but I'm not sure there was $1,600 of carryover! LOL
I'll offer these points in the hope that it helps someone out there. First, sitting thru 45 - 60 minutes of training, 5 days a week was tiring at a minimum. It was tough for me as an adult; I can only imagine what it would be like for a child. Another CRITICAL point in my view is how a person/child handles "failure". The training is DESIGNED to make you fail at some point. Once you get one wrong, the exercises get gradually easier until you get one right again. For me, 2 successive failures almost always cause anxiety/panic episodes; 3 or more and I have to use deep-breathing techniques to calm down. It becomes a very unpleasant experience, but on the other hand, provides opportunities to manage those conditions in a "controlled environment".
My advice would be to try one of the cheaper alternatives first - like MindSpring. If the results/experience is favorable with one of those, you'd likely get even better results from Cogmed.
Hope this helps! :-)
High School DS was diagnosed with APD last week and was identified as having a combined inattentive and hyperactive type of ADHD. An updated NP was recommended for an ADHD diagnosis. Additionally, Cogmed and Starkey Halo hearing aids that record for clarity were both recommended.
I will go to the district and ask that they provide the Cogmed and digital hearing aids. Anyone BTDT? Was Cogmed beneficial for anyone or their DCs? How about digital hearing aids or FM Systems in the classroom?
The data on CogMed is pretty much the same as it was 5 years ago, which is that the best research doesn't support its effectiveness. Now, if you can get the district to pay for it, I don't think there's any real harm in it, either, but it does still have a cost in time. Like most interventions with anecdotal support but without a solid evidence-basis, it is possible that there are specific people and circumstances out there for whom it would be helpful, but there isn't currently a reliable way for identifying which people those would be.