Hi all,

I'm hoping for some insight on my nearly 4yo boy. His personality was pretty intense and high-needs from birth, and right now it's coming out in a way I find especially challenging to deal with: he wants to talk with you all the time and needs an adult to play with him. All. the. time. He attends a terrific play-based preschool 3x week, but the rest of the time he's home with me (my spouse works a lot, so I am generally primary parent).

I think this is a developmental leap, maybe, because it's definitely much more intense right now than it has been over the past months. It seems that there's some kind of thing going on where he's looking for his own optimal arousal level, and I am kind of at a loss about how to help him meet his needs while also not losing my own mind. He has never really been the kind of kid who will play alone, but right now I'm finding it especially tough. The talking is non-stop, the science questions are non-stop, and the imaginative or building play he needs me to participate in is also non-stop. For reasons both selfish (I'm a sociable introvert - the constant talking and interaction totally overwhelms my system if I can't get breaks and silence.) and practical (Somebody's gotta clean the kitchen!) I really, really, really need the day to not be a straight shot of speculating about gravity and why space doesn't have a floor and being assigned imaginary roles in his Duplo play and freaking out if I have to go to the bathroom.

A couple of things are confusing to me here: his father and I are both what I'd call semi-sociable introverts/highly-sensitive weirdos. Frankly, I'm kind of surprised that my child is currently needing so much input. I'd almost describe it as sensory-seeking behavior, except the inputs he's seeking seem to be less motion or sound-oriented, and more... information-related, and it seems to build on itself. I don't know how else to describe it. It's like, he'll get on a thing where he's interested in germs, and I'll try to facilitate his need for information, we go to the library, I buy some books, we watch Youtube science videos about cell division, I do my best to help him find answers to his questions, etc. And to me, as an adult, that all seems like enough input that it would kind of make his little brain very busy assimilating these ideas, so that he would not also require the separate constant conversation and constant social interaction from me? (I mean, that's how MY brain would work, if I were acquiring a lot of new data - I would need to be quiet and in my head part of the time.) But instead, it sort of seems to me like he goes into these phases of needing more more more, more data, then that leads to needing more conversation, more social interaction, MORE. I get the impression that his ideal would be for me (or another adult) to be like his helper animal, a constant, focused presence, constantly talking, constantly interacting, nearly every second he's awake.

And it does seem to me that he also has the traits of being introverted and having a high-reactive nervous system (things are often too loud, he watches from the edge of the playground before becoming involved, etc.) so I feel really confused about what's going on here and now I can help.

Basically, I am exhausted! Does this ring a bell for anyone? Is this just a phase? Have you been through this and been able to help your kid?

YES, YES, YES.



Ding-ding-ding. You have just described my DD. She, too, is a highly sensitive introvert who-- you'd figure-- should be the world's most perfect autodidact, right?

NOT. SO.

She has to "discuss" it all. Intensely. Socratically. It's exhausting.

What she actually needs is a rotating menu of personal expert tutors. Only even that wouldn't be enough, because, er-- I'm pretty bright and pretty widely read and eclectic in my interests obsessions, and I can tell that I occasionally frustrate her by not being terribly interested in, say...

the development of the Napoleonic code. Or 1950-70's Turkish music. Why we haven't converted to a DNA-based system in biological naming/classification... Or how D&D turned into Pathfinder...

She's 14, and while it was at its very zenith just prior to her learning to read at 4, I still find it utterly exhausting.

I hate to say this-- but I think this is a hard-wired trait. The best you can hope for is a LOT of extracurricular activities that encourage a lot of intensively inquiry-led exploration and discussion. HIGH level book clubs, lego robotics, etc.

Yep, particularly at that age. Electronic input was our big sanity saver. I think for some people, reading fills some of that gap.

I can relate to what you're going through. It seems as if it was just yesterday when I thought I'd go nuts if I had to just talk to our DS one more day. I had no babysitter and DS didn't go to any daycare. At night, I often met DH at the door and when DS was a baby, just said, "He's yours." and went to the bedroom! Luckily for me, DH understood my need for solitude after watching our son alone all day.

During those VERY long early days, (I sometimes woke in the morning dreading hearing DS waking in the next room.), in order to protect myself (yes, you need to do this), I set "boundaries". No matter how upset DS became, I set aside a daily hour of quiet where I required him to go into his room and play alone. There were consequences if he interrupted me...often taking away something he held in high regard...until he learned to give me the space I needed. This came about only after he was past two, however. Before that age, I would have to set him in his playpen with his stuff and shut the door for some time away. The noise coming from him demanding attention was blocked by that door and earplugs, honestly.

If you're highly strung at all, I'd suggest a trip to your doctor if things become too overwhelming. He/She can prescribe medication to "take the edge off" and make things more tolerable. Being more relaxed can only be beneficial to your child, right?

Things have become a LOT better now that DS has been "trained" to give me "space". It also helps that he is now in school nearly full time. I seriously did NOT want to homeschool for the obvious reasons. If that makes me a horrible parent, then I say so be it. I'm not a "helper animal" as you so adroitly put it!

Hang in there.

Definitely electronic "babysitters" were lifelines. I purchased as many learning DVD's as we could afford and allowed DS on the computer when he was two (four without supervision).

I am guessing this is your first DC? With my first, it was the same way. At some point, I did what others have suggested - creating mandated quiet time. It's important to demonstrate self care and boundaries.

It all kind of took care of itself when DC #2 came around. You just gotta tend to the baby sometimes!

FWIW - DH is PG and is STILL like this in his 40s. But he can take care of his needs himself. He is up at dawn or beforehand, runs several miles, goes to work at a rather intense job and when the rest of the world goes home to decompress, DH is still going - reading, hobbies, walking or running some more, socializing, whatever. Some people are just hard wired this way.

My 3.5 year old is like this too. We have a ton of discovery channel
Stuff on dinosaurs on Netflix that we watch together, we have a library of science books for kids that we read whenever she has a question. We also have a museum membership so we can go experiment and play.

I'm one of those never stop, always needing to be doing 50 things types, so I don't mind it as much, but it makes my introverted husband nuts! We have instituted a "think first" system - where before she asks a question she has to think about it & present an answer first. A lot of times her questions are too complex for that, but it does cut the other chatter.

So we get well worded and thoughtful questions with a somewhat reasoned answer as a response. It also helps us to gague her understanding of what she's asking and also to address any misconceptions she may have "resoned"
On the way there!

I am looking forward to her finally putting the pieces together to reading more than a few words so she can read some of these books herself and maybe get even better questions!

My DD9 needs constant input. I am not one to provide that so I leave her to her own devices...and I usually regret it. Today she did about a dozen art pieces since she missed art on Friday due to a doctor's appointment. I do not like art and I always opted out of optional art stuff when I was in school (even in K) - I did not want to think of something to create and I really did not want to clean it up. Now I think there is payback as I clean up her mess.

I don't know if DD9 is gifted but DD18 & DD16 have been labeled due to FSIQ > 130 - they did not require constant input. They also could entertain each other since they are only two years apart. They do entertain DD9 sometimes, but DD18 is now off at college and DD16 cannot take on all the entertainment. She tires out her sisters and they recognize that they were not like her. Even physical activity doesn't help that much. She wanted to go on the playground with other kids when she was at one of her sister's softball tournaments. She was running around for three hours and pleaded to stay when it was over - she claimed she needed more time (fortunately it started pouring so I got out of that one).

I don't have much advice but it has not gotten better yet with DD9. I do endorse the great babysitter (the TV). There is plenty of educational stuff on Netflix, though my kids often opt to watch mindless stuff.

I did make her write down the questions I can't answer (or can't answer while in the car) in a notebook - this helps a bit.

I endorse the other kind of great babysitter-- the college student who is willing to run your child around at the playground and wear them down while answering the constant questions (and you rest or get something else done). Really, kids like these were made for a village.

I don't have much advice. I do sympathize as DD7 is the same way. Like others we have electronics that have helped us get some time.

Sorry for my very delayed response to this, all.

I have to admit that I was hoping for more responses like "Oh, it totally changes at 4.5 and then they are delightful and hardly ask questions at all", but that's probably too much to ask. Hah.

I'm periodically still having a tough time with the "MORE INPUT! MORE INPUT!" thing, and coping as best I can. I've resorted to telling him plainly when I need quiet time so I can keep being patient and nice, because I think I tend to get overwhelmed by all the talking and questions, and go way beyond the boundary I need to enforce for my own sanity. So I'm working on that a little bit.

I also get the impression that he's in the process of teaching himself to read, which is probably very stimulating to his little brain. Part of me hopes that when he learns to read a bit, he won't need as much constant input from me - but that's probably awfully optimistic!

Reading didn't help at first, but when DS mastered reading chapter books I got some much needed pockets of quiet time. I remember buying him the Magic Tree House Boxed set for his kindergarten "graduation" present and I barely heard from him for a couple of weeks. I was actually excited when he got done and came back for input.

I think he still (at 9) needs a lot of input and we both prefer that much of that come from meaningful interaction. But the books buy us down time. So it does get a little better.

School made a big difference for us. We didn't notice a change with preschool, but K...wow, he needed the down time as much as we did. DS used to talk all day, including throughout his "nap" every afternoon. Now his focus has shifted to making friends and that takes a lot of mental and physical energy. We still get the science and math questions everyday, but the intensity has diminished.

You made me laugh and smile with your hope of him growing out of it! I had that same conversation with a psychologist when my DS was 5, and he told me I would be lucky if he outgrew it by 14! I'm still holding out hope it happens before then, but until then, my saving grace continues to be Khan Academy. Those 15 minute "movies" are just enough space for both of us, and usually gets some question that I have no idea about answered. Also for learning to read at that age, Headsprout/Mimio is great. It is highly stimulating and it works in 15-20 minutes "episodes" that he can do himself.

You basically described my almost-4yo DD. Very information-needy, asks 1000 (good) questions daily & wants to know EVERY SINGLE DETAIL of everything. It definitely can be exhausting! I don't really have any insight other than to say I completely understand! My DH works constantly too so it is mainly me with her (also have a 1 1/2yo). My DD is extremely emotional and sensitive (and volatile at times) so I constantly feel like I'm walking on egg-shells trying to not rock the boat. She colors and writes about 1-2 hours a day so that is my break!

To me it sounds like your DS may be ready to be in school every day. Does he make the cut-off for Kindergarden next year?

Just read this! DD can read and she still needs the input!!! Sorry to disappoint. Though I have read here that some kids do need less once they can entertain themselves more with reading…. just didn't happen w/ DD. She wants to read to ME!

Our children are not like this at all. Maybe they just like to think about stuff without asking so many questions.

Would sports on your non-school days help a little? My guy loves sports and does heaps. It keeps his body and mind occupied.

It's nearly 11pm here. I have just shouted at my 5 year old (EG) to go back to bed for the xth time. She is early entered to school this year. She found a grade two (third year of school) maths book in her room and has been doing that for hours. I do NOT want to talk to her cos MUMMY NEEDS QUIET TIME NOW. And did I mention it's nearly 11PM?
She still talks ALL DAY except when I get some quiet time by making her go and play Minecraft. Anyone who criticises my lax parenting gets to look after her for a week and see what they think at the end of it!
And, I have three. Sigh.

My DD7 was exactly the same way, but add on needing constant physical input as well: jumping, touching, moving etc. AND loving to make noises--LOUD sounds, AND asking constant questions, singing, talking, and NEEDING from sun up to sun down on little sleep. Now at 7 she is a little better, but is in many activities : theater, singing, gymnastics, dance, DI, and a math enrichment program. Once she got into silent reading (she started reading at 2.5, but didn't disappear into longer books, novels etc. until the end of Kindergarten or maybe first grade) she would disappear into books for a long time and that quiet was a relief for me. She now writes, reads, and draws much of the time and channels her intensity into those things. She still can be intense and demanding, but it is getting better. At four, she was a jumpy, talking, touching, asking ball of fire...I could not go back and do it again! Good luck :-)

I wanted to add that we did have her tested for ADHD and discussed this with her teachers, but she is able to be very focused and on task in all her activities and so far, she does not have a diagnosis. In theater and at school, she looks like the most focused kid there and this has been a relief because she struggles to sit still in activities when she was a preschooler.

Books on tape and CD were big for us when D2 was that age. We had most of the Harry Potter books on tape (in fact, I posted them on Freecycle to get rid of them recently, and had no takers... guess no one has a tape player any more). And then CDs of Lord of the Rings when she asked for those.

I endorse Ametrine's strategies of drawing boundaries around certain portions of the day for DS to self-entertain, and turning over primary responsibility for your DS when DH gets home (give DH about half an hour to decompress from the workday, though).

In addition, I wanted to comment on this...:


... because my DD is also one who watches from the edges before becoming involved, but being socially guarded should not, in her case, be confused with being introverted. She is wary of strangers, but once she makes up her mind about people, she's energized by being a part of a crowd, and wears the other people out. When she doesn't have a playmate she complains of being lonely.

So it's possible you're misreading these cues in your own DS as introverted behavior.

I also wouldn't lump in his sensory responses to sound as an extroverted/introverted behavior, because sensory sensitivity is not controlled by personality. Sometimes it's the other way around, though, where your DS may appear introverted because his senses are being overwhelmed, but placed in a quieter environment, he may respond quite differently.

Lastly, I would hypothesize that his sudden spurt of growing intensity in seeking your attention may be his response to some of your sense of being overwhelmed. He could be picking up on your reluctance to engage (you'll be sending him nonverbal and verbal cues on this, whether you know it or not), and that may be causing him some anxiety about being rejected. He responds by seeking more of your attention for self-validation, which in turn causes you to feel more overwhelmed, and the runaway feedback cycle continues.

The solution there is, as mentioned before, healthy boundaries. When DS understands that you're not rejecting him, you just need to get X done, or you need a little time to Y in order to be ready to spend quality time with him, and then that time you do spend with him is high quality time, then the psychological health of both of you is greatly enhanced.

On weekend mornings, I have a two cups of coffee rule. Anyone who starts pushing me to do things before I've finished my second cup of coffee can expect me to growl at them.

I hear you guys, and I promise I'm not slapping a "definitely introverted and sensitive" label on my kid willy-nilly.

Some of the "input! input!" thing he does, I think, is actually about feeling overwhelmed by his own thoughts, like they are too big and complex for his little brain, so that he's reaching out for help sorting through them, rather than like he preferentially processes ideas externally. I suspect (I am prepared to be proven wrong) that some of the information-seeking conversation is more about this and less about wanting to connect with others.

I'm not sure he has any anxiety about me leaving the room and so on. I'd actually say that a good side effect of his intense drive to be joined at the hip to a parent is that he is now pretty relaxed about being apart from us. There has actually been kind of a boom in him wanting to be more independent (this is a mixed bag), so I wonder if this was all part of the same developmental leap. Hard to say. Kids are weird.

I'm doing my best to enforce healthy boundaries about when I can talk about endless science questions, and when I need a little bit of quiet. It's slow going, but I'm doing my best. I also committed the outlandish sin of making a rule that we could no longer read science books at bedtime. It was like they were causing brain fever, and he would lie in the dark and almost fall asleep and then need to know if any of the metals are translucent and why are things translucent and how does it work, and wake himself up again.