Calling all experts!
I asked our tester about extended norms for DS. His answer to me on two separate occasions was he already qualifies for DYS on multiple IQ criteria so you don't need extended norms. It doesn't seem like an answer to me. DS had two 19s and two 18s. Is there more criteria to extend the norms that maybe I'm not understanding? The 19s and 18s on DS test are all in the VCI & PRI indexes. Wouldn't that suggest he hit some sort of ceiling?

I don't have raw scores and I have no idea if extending the norms would matter. The tester doesn't seem to want to give me the raw scores. When I requested the cover sheet for the test he gave me a written PDF report with the scaled numbers. I will probably not get the raw numbers. I don't feel like because DYS criteria is met is an answer.

Thoughts...anybody?

Thanks

I wouldn't want the extra scores so much for extra information on my child, but rather to aid in advocacy-- they will help make him appear that much rarer on paper, and hopefully even harder to ignore. So I would be polite but increasingly insistent with the tester.

I'd go with the polite but increasingly insistent. I tucked away DD's scores for years but just in the last couple of months have been "analyzing" them and googling etc. I'm so shocked at how much I didn't understand, not even what the subtests were testing or revealing.

I didn't know anything about "extended norms" and it's too late for me to go back and contact them to better understand what those ">99.9th percentile" scores mean...?

We got ours by politely asking, and implying we'd pursue further testing.

We were surprised that extended norms were neither used nor mentioned by our tester, who is known locally as an expert on gifted children.

Someone who no longer frequents this board calculated them for me and DD8's FSIQ did not increase, but her GAI increased 5 points, which is quite a leap as far as IQ tests go, and if you are advocating it can be huge.

One interesting aspect to our raw scores was a Test Age Equiv. column, which showed DD (at age 7) scoring the equivalent of age >16:10 in two subtests. Far more than the IQ score, that way of looking at it helped deepen my respect for how profound asynchrony must be for DD in school and life.

I know it's silly but his answer bothers me. We had DS tested to get a full picture of him. Qualifying for DYS is a great thing, but not the end all of the testing. It seems like saying he qualifies for a program therefore you don't need extended norms is a weird answer. I am pushing for the raw scores from him. I would like them for our records. I know they don't keep this stuff forever. Our school is will to take the test and replace their horrid Cogat with our WISC-IV. I would like the full set of numbers for any future person to look at and evaluate.

I just wish he would give me an answer I could understand. It's seems like extend norms should be applied where the data suggest a ceiling and the rules are followed, but not only when you need it to qualify for something. If they don't apply for him or make no difference in the score that is fine. He doesn't answer it that way. He says you already qualified for DYS without them.


HELP MY RAW SCORES ARE BEING HELD HOSTAGE!

Is this the person you PAID to test your child? If so, what I don't understand is why he won't graciously provide you with the info you are constructively and politely requesting.

Does he actually have the info?

Does this fall under the "freedom of information act"? For heaven sakes, it's your child!

I don't blame you for not being able to "let it rest"!

Yes I paid him and yes he should have it. We only got the report last week. He gave us all the scaled scores and indexes, GAI, etc. just not raw scores. He wrote a report for the school and Davidson. I don't know but he nearly had me in a full blown panic with the report coming about 16 hrs before our IEP meeting.

Thanks Master! I'm still trying the friendly, polite, and direct approach. I'll keep note of this should I need to go from pushing to shoving. He has not flat out said no to the raw numbers.

I only asked him if extended norms would be appropriate in my DS situation. His answer related to qualifying for DYS. Which is not why I asked. I didn't actually ask him to calculate the extended norms. It's been odd to deal with. Overall, my DS had a good repoire with him and my DD did as well. I actually had planned on testing her after she turns 6 with him. If I did that now I would probably ask for the cover sheet before leaving. I've never had outside testing before because the school did it with my older DS. It didn't occur to me that all the numbers would not be in a report. Lesson learned!

The price was great for us. He is cover by our insurance and I only had to pay relatively small part of the total cost. I hate to burn the bridge in the event I need to go back.

Even with all the weirdness and frustration, I would take an experienced GT tester over inexperienced.

Hi Jtooit

Maybe print out the NAGC position statement on th WISC-IV which discusses GAI and extended norms. It makes a stronger case for GAI but maybe it will help

http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=2455

I would use the school as the reason - say they require the raw scores for their files. That's how I got what info I did on my son's WJIII test.

I had to request the wisc cover sheet repeatedly for my ds6, and wondered along the way why I was bothering, since his score already qualified him for the program we wanted and dys. When I had it rescored with the extended norms, though, the fsiq went up 14 points. So I guess I agree that it can help you the parent better appreciate what life might be like for your child. I also agree that it may help to provide a "wow!" factor in the event that it is needed for advocacy for your child.

(Bump.) OP, did you ever get the information you wanted? I can't even get hold of subtest scores.

No I didn't get them. I gave up at some point. My ds was 12 and we got everything we need from the scores. He was accepted into DYS and he got the acceleration at school we wanted for him. We were curious how high is VCI and PRI would go with extending the norms. If my ds was younger I might have pushed harder, but the usefulness of his scores was very short lived. He is at a level in school were he tested into classes and follows the sequence. We know what his minim number and that's enough for us.

We did use a private tester and I'm sure if I pushed hard enough I could have gotten them. I wasn't interested in burning the bridge given I need my DD tested as well. The tester is very experienced and that was more important to me than satisfying my curiosity.

Who did the testing that you can't get the subtest score? Was it a school?
A private tester would give a full report but a school often gives very little information.

Thanks. The test was ordered by the school, and the tester was paid by the school, but is not a regular employee of the school (or the district).

Is it typical for schools to actively try to prevent parents getting access to this kind of information?

Actually I shouldn't hijack your thread. I've got a thread here.
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....ongruous_test_results_Pl.html#Post150424