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Posted By: JDAx3 Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 03:02 AM
I hate to ask questions that have been asked and answered before, but I'm trying to understand the significance of processing speed. I looked around at previous posts, but didn't see anything that answered my question.

I posted previously about DS8 and his scores (WISC-IV) and got great feedback. While researching a little more, I read that this test had two processing speed subtests added from the WISC-III, and that these bear more weight in the FSIQ. If I understand all of this correctly, lower processing speeds could bring down the FSIQ, right? I'm wondering what the significance of processing speed is - in the grand scheme of things, why is it important to determine how fast/slow the minds work, as long as they work? And if a lower speed can bring the FSIQ down, yet the speed isn't zero, how can that be an accurate reflection of ability? DSs processing speed was the lowest of all the numbers and I'm wondering what his scores might have reflected were it not for that.

Slowly, but surely I'm beginning to grasp some of this information. Thanks.

ETA - Does anyone know anything about SRI scores? DSs SRI score last quarter was 1381. I asked his teacher for clarification about what exactly it meant. She said that the chart tops out at 1080 (I think, but could be wrong) and that's somewhere near 11th grade. So, how does one get a 1381? Gosh, this stuff is really confusing. Thanks for any help.
Posted By: snowgirl Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 03:19 AM
Here, this might help, from http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/About_GDC/whoaregiftd.htm

Originally Posted by from the Gifted Development Center
The WISC-IV is yielding many gifted-level scores at the Gifted Development Center. However, some of the Full Scale IQ scores are excessively lowered by Working Memory and Processing Speed scores. As intelligence is primarily abstract reasoning ability, emphasizing short-term auditory memory and processing speed on paper-and-pencil tests is less helpful. Two Working Memory subtests (only one was required on the WISC-III) and two Processing Speed subtests (only one was required on the WISC-III) place more weight on these processing skills in the Full Scale IQ score. This is unfortunate for gifted children and confounds the Full Scale IQ Score (FSIQ) as a gifted identifier.

In the normative sample for the WISC-IV, the gifted group (which had scored at least 130 previously) earned a Full Scale IQ score of 123.5 on the WISC-IV. Their Verbal Comprehension score was 124.7 and Perceptual Reasoning score was 120.4. However, in line with our experience, their Working Memory averaged only 112.5 and their Processing Speed was 110.6 (WISC-IV Technical Manual, p. 77).

The Increased Emphasis on Processing Skills

Perhaps the inclusion of more processing skills measures is appropriate for lower functioning children. If the child's processing speed on paper-and-pencil tasks is so slow that he or she cannot complete work in a reasonable amount of time in the classroom, processing speed may be such a limiting factor that it should be included in IQ scores. Likewise, if short-term auditory memory is so poor that the teacher's instructions can't be retained at all, this is a significant problem. However, gifted children rarely perform extremely poorly in these areas on an absolute scale. It makes much more sense to identify them as gifted based on assessments emphasizing reasoning, provide them gifted learning experiences, and then add any accommodations based on relative weaknesses to the gifted accommodations.

A Full Scale IQ score that averages gifted reasoning and average processing skills fails to identify either the giftedness or the relative weaknesses. Test authors have wrongly assumed that gifted children are fast processors. Some are very quick; others are reflective or perfectionistic, slowing their speed. Gifted children also show a preference for meaningful test materials, and may not perform well on short-term memory tests or other tasks that utilize non-meaningful material. They usually perform so much better with meaningful material that their scores with non-meaningful material are difficult to interpret.

The higher a child�s intelligence, the more reasonable it would be to assume that the child would score well in all four of the indices. However, as noted above, the gifted group in the normative sample scored in the superior ranges on Verbal Comprehension and Perceptual Reasoning, but considerably lower in Working Memory and Processing Speed. Presumably some group other than the gifted scored in the superior ranges in these two strands, but this introduces a confounding variable into the Full Scale IQ score. The two lower indices do not reflect the abilities of the gifted and tend to lower their Full Scale scores. Given these issues, it will be a challenge for testers of the gifted to choose tests appropriate to document gifted strengths and diagnose weaknesses, without eliminating children from gifted program entrance requirements.

see also http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/About_GDC/indices.htm

and http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/About_GDC/newiqtests.htm
Posted By: Dazed&Confuzed Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 12:46 PM
JDax3 - your name reminds me of Jadzia Dax on Star Trek! Anyhow, there is a number you can calculate called General Abilities Index (GAI) which is a subset of the indices...it uses only the VCI and PRI and excludes WMI and PSI. From my reading, it seems low WMI/PRI does impact performance. Kids who are really high in all 4 are just out there. But lower WMI/PRI should not be used as a basis for saying a DC is not gifted.
Posted By: JDAx3 Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 01:43 PM
Snowgirl - Thanks for the links. I believe that site is where I found the initial info, but hadn't gone as deep as the other links you provided. Thanks.

Dazed&Confuzed - I'm familiar with a few characters on Star Trek (thanks to DH), but not the one you mentioned. DH keeps trying to convert me, though, LOL.

How can I calculate the GAI? That isn't shown on the psychologist's report, but the other breakdowns are. PSI is the lowest, but WMI is inline with everything else <98%. I guess I'm thinking that if PSI is capable of bringing the FSIQ down, and it's strictly a 'speed' issue, then how can the FSIQ be a truly accurate measure of ability, KWIM?
Posted By: Dazed&Confuzed Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 01:58 PM
JDax3 - if you google WISCIV GAI, you should see a download for the WISCIV report. If you don't see it, let me know. It then aids you in calculating the GAI.
Posted By: JDAx3 Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by Dazed&Confuzed
JDax3 - if you google WISCIV GAI, you should see a download for the WISCIV report. If you don't see it, let me know. It then aids you in calculating the GAI.


Thanks for the link. I found the worksheet.

Originally Posted by Dottie
From the posted scores, the GAI would be 148 (based on a VCI of 140, and a PRI of 139). This score falls above the 99.9th percentile.


Wow, that was quick! Thanks for the info.

So, PSI does have an impact and can 'skew' the results, if even just a bit. Interesting.
Posted By: inky Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by JDAx3
So, PSI does have an impact and can 'skew' the results, if even just a bit.
In some cases it can skew the results significantly. That seems to be why the NAGC put out this position statement about USE OF THE WISC-IV FOR GIFTED IDENTIFICATION.
http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=2455

It says in part:

Originally Posted by NAGC
Testers of the gifted know that abstract reasoning tasks best identify cognitive giftedness, while processing skills measures do not...
When the WISC-IV is used for the identification of gifted students, either the General Ability Index (GAI), which emphasizes reasoning ability, or the Full Scale IQ Score (FSIQ), should be acceptable for selection to gifted programs. The GAI should be derived using the table provided in the Harcourt Assessments website (Technical Report 4)
Posted By: bronxmom Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 04:27 PM
There was a 15 point difference between my son's FSIQ and FAI because of lower PSI and WMI scores.

Posted By: inky Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 04:35 PM
DD6's FSIQ was 9 points lower than her GAI for the same reason.
Posted By: Jon Z Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 05:16 PM
They also say:
Quote
Flanagan and Kaufman (2004), in Essentials of WISC-IV Assessment, deem the FSIQ �not interpretable� if Composite scores vary by 23 points (1.5 standard deviations) or more.
My DS12 just took the WISC-IV. His PSI came out ~40 points lower than the other three. I'm trying to figure out what that really means. Not much luck in finding anything I believe so far. The math is all pretty fuzzy.
(JZ)
Posted By: giftedticcyhyper Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 05:20 PM
I kind of wonder (not that I'm generally a conspiracy theorist) whether the folks at WISC designed their test specifically to reduce GT scores, thereby lowering the amount of people that are identified into public GT programs to save the schools money.
Posted By: inky Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by giftedticcyhyper
I kind of wonder (not that I'm generally a conspiracy theorist) whether the folks at WISC designed their test specifically to reduce GT scores, thereby lowering the amount of people that are identified into public GT programs to save the schools money.
Maybe it's an unintended consequence of wanting to ID children whose WMI and PSI bring down their FSIQ below the normal range, so they can be eligible for services.
Posted By: giftedticcyhyper Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 05:43 PM
I totally do not follow.
Posted By: inky Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 05:49 PM
Not my area of expertise, but it may be related to diagnosing ADHD and LDs.



Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children, 3rd and 4th editions (WISC-III n = 586 and WISC-IV n = 118), profiles were compared for children with ADHD and normal intelligence. Mean Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI) and Perceptual Organization/Perceptual Reasoning Index (POI/PRI) scores were significantly higher than Freedom From Distractibility/Working Memory Index (FDI/WMI) and
Processing Speed Index (PSI), and Symbol Search was higher than Coding. FDI/WMI and PSI scores were similar on both tests, but VCI and POI/PRI were higher on the WISC-IV than on the WISC-III. Therefore, index discrepancies were greater for the WISC-IV, suggesting that the WISC-IV might be better than the WISC-III in delineating the strengths and weaknesses of children with ADHD. All children in the WISC-IV sample scored lowest on WMI or PSI, whereas only 88% of the WISC-III children scored lowest on FDI or PSI. Thus, the WISC-IV may be more helpful in diagnosing ADHD than the WISC-III. (Contains 2 tables.)
Posted By: Dazed&Confuzed Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 06:10 PM
Well, if they wanted to lower the # kids in GT programs, they wouldn't have come up w/ GAI. I don't think it was intentional. I'm not sure why they increased the weight of PSI and WMI over WISCIII but I think it goes back to the idea that gifted kids are speedy (many are and many are not).
Posted By: JDAx3 Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by Jon Z
They also say:
Quote
Flanagan and Kaufman (2004), in Essentials of WISC-IV Assessment, deem the FSIQ �not interpretable� if Composite scores vary by 23 points (1.5 standard deviations) or more.
My DS12 just took the WISC-IV. His PSI came out ~40 points lower than the other three. I'm trying to figure out what that really means. Not much luck in finding anything I believe so far. The math is all pretty fuzzy.
(JZ)


DS had the same issue with ~20 point difference in PSI. That's why I asked the question about the significance of PSI, especially when it affects the FSIQ. It seems odd to me that a test would be improved, yet have potential differentiations between GAI and FSIQ. I'm sure there's rhyme and reason to it, I've just not quite made sense of it yet. I didn't know what GAI was until I came here, that info wasn't provided on DSs report. I would think that if PSI was the primary factor in a FSIQ being depressed, then the GAI would automatically be provided and used because the ability is there, KWIM? Eventually, I'll grasp it all.

Good luck.
Posted By: inky Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 07:35 PM
I found this slide amusing from a presentation called Making the Switch: Unlocking the Mystery of the WISC-IV by Shelley C. Heaton, Ph.D.
http://www.phhp.ufl.edu/~jhj/WISCIV.ppt#2
Why another revision?
A. Keep us on our toes
B. Revisions to theoretical foundations
C. Make more money
D. The old pictures were ugly
E. Improve psychometric properties
Answer: B & E
Posted By: fangcyn Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 08:07 PM
DS7 has a 37 points spread between PSI and VCI. The psychologist brought up a point that we might consider an evaluation on dysgraphia. If he is diagnosed, he is entitled for extra time in tests.

A low PSI could mean anything, not just dysgraphia. I am no expert in this area.


Posted By: inky Re: Processing speed significance? - 03/16/09 08:24 PM
Obviously, we are focused on IQ tests as they relate to the gifted. However...
Quote
The IQ tests are designed to make the finest distinctions for most of the children taking the test (the 95% of children who fall between 70 and 130.) We are asking a test to make fine distinctions with a relatively blunt tool when we are looking at the extremes.
http://www.sengifted.org/articles_directorscorner/Webb_Nov06.shtml
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