First, please don't quote my post, as I will probably edit this later. DD8, 3rd grade at a new school, has always been a very strong reader, but her MAP test scores did not move this year - at all. DD's fall MAP score was just below ___. DD's winter and now spring MAP score both showed no growth. DD has been reading like crazy, doing all of the homework, studying - and no growth. I see very few resources for RIT scores over 230, and I am not sure DD's school understands that she really IS this strong of a reader. What can I do to help her make progress, while the school may or may not come to realize in the meantime that she just didn't accidentally get this score?
Meanwhile, DD's math score moved up to a spring RIT just below ___, so she seems to be making progress there.
We had the same exact issue with my DS8. My kiddo had a very similar fall reading MAP score and his score actually went down. He said that he had a bunch of q's about sonnets and other poetry on the spring test but that he guessed randomly because he doesn't know anything about poetry.
The short answer is that she is at or near the ceiling of the test in both measures, and probably needs to look at some out-of-grade level testing to have a better sense of growth, such as the next level of MAP (gr 6+). She didn't approach the ceiling in math until spring, which is why there was movement there.
You might find this linking study on MAP and college prep testing (ACT, PLAN, EXPLORE) interesting. Look at the chart on page 4:
http://www.nwea.org/sites/www.nwea.org/files/ACT_LinkingStudy_1%2017%202012.pdf
Thank you, aeh!
Actually, she took the EXPLORE test this year and did very well. So do I need to ask the school about the next level of MAP?
The thing is - the school sees all of the grade-level 99 percentiles, and I think they may just feel I should be happy she is doing well (and for the most part, I am, but...). The reality is, though, the MAP is used for placing them in classes - so from that perspective, growth is important. Honestly, now that I have seen her WISC, EXPLORE, and other scores, I worry about underachieving. My goal is NOT to push her, but I would like to see her continue to make good progress at her ability level.
Loy58, we have dealt with the same issues and the school really was not willing to help (I was told we could just work with her at home, not to push her, etc.). I have looked at the standardized test scores over the years and really haven't found them helpful in monitoring progress. Right now, my daughter's school uses the STAR test to monitor progress and for placement. It seems to fluctuate randomly sometimes (so there will be a small drop and then a gain) and I have come to think that my daughter may just be more focused some times than others. I have wondered also if maybe missing a single question could have a big effect on the score. Her reading scores are extremely high, so maybe there is a ceiling effect. Her math scores are only seventh grade level. Regardless, though, the scores just don't seem to be a reliable indicator of growth for her. My son gets MAP testing, so I only have a few scores to compare for that. Having just met with the testing specialist this week to go over his scores, it really didn't seem like they gave the small changes in percentiles much weight (I was concerned that maybe he had been making less progress in the spring, but they dismissed my concerns). I think, as has been mentioned before, that all of this testing is focused more in the kids who are behind.
I did have my daughter tested with the WIAT-III two years apart to see the effects of her grade skip and that was very helpful (except that she hit too many ceilings in the reading areas and I've been told the WJIII would have been better for a higher ceiling). Maybe the difference is just that it is an individual test and she was more engaged. Regardless, though, we obviously can't do that every year.
My daughter is now able to work at her own pace at a charter school, so it is easier to monitor her progress by just seeing what work she is doing. I wish it were easier to monitor progress in a regular classroom.
For what it's worth, my daughter has been in multiple schools and her scores never seemed to mean much to anyone except for the gifted coordinator (although they did allow her to keep her grade skip based on them). The gifted coordinator tested her himself, so he had a different perspective. Once she was accepted as a DYS, even though her scores hadn't changed in any way, they seemed to suddenly see her in an entirely new light. For some reason, that meant more to them.
Our district uses a similar test (not MAP) but it says on the test website that the scores are expected to move more slowly once kids are in middle school. So in second grade a child might have a 300 point gain in a year and in 8th grade they might have a 50 point gain. It's probably because of the ceiling. The other moms in the gifted chapter said they asked the school to give the next level test up, once those scores start leveling. But in our district the ceiling is higher. I ask for the "suggested learning objectives" that the test report gives and most standards listed are at around an 8th-9th grade level for both reading/math so I'm not sure how much longer the test will work for DD either. I wouldn't worry about the "no growth" though--it's a problem with the test, not her.
I met with my middle school's principal to discuss some matters, one of which was my concern over our district's lack of attention to, and data collection on, the growth of the gifted population. She told me one of the reasons is that the gifted population is one of the hardest groups to grow. In fact, not only do they not tend to show a lot of growth, but sometimes they even go down.
Our district is in its second year using MAP. This year, they decided to test everyone at the beginning of the year, and anyone who tested above grade level does not test again that year. The reason is that those kids have already shown mastery of the grade level so why test them? (or teach them?)
Seems they believe that the test shows grade level mastery and nuthin else?
So anyone above the 50th percentile (or thereabouts) is consider to have mastered grade level material? What's funny about that logic is that kids at the 50th percentile have not even remotely mastered grade level material. Mastery is indicated (if a standardized test can really indicate such a thing) at around the 90th percentile.
Thank you, everyone - if nothing else, I no longer feel alone in my concerns about DD.
apm221 - interesting that it took your DD becoming a DYS for the school to notice.
blackcat - yes, it could be that we simply need the MAP test with the higher ceiling, but I'm not sure that will happen.
KADmom - interesting. I actually DID expect less growth and less growth was projected, because the score was already high. Multiple test periods with no growth, though - that concerns me.
MoN - WOW. I don't think that is how MAP tests are usually used. That probably makes the tests completely useless for any high achievers.
I just have some unrelated thoughts. I think that after a certain level but without getting anywhere near the ceiling, it does become harder to make significant gains on the reading MAP. Part of it is due to the lack of exposure to certain technical literary terms and techniques, rather than actual reading comprehension level or fluency. On that basis, I wouldn't worry about the stagnant reading scores so much if you are seeing real life gains.
While the MAP 2-5 does purportedly test to the same high levels as the MAP 6+, in reality it might at times be harder to get those super high scores due to more limited test items. There is the additional argument that even if you get the super high scores on the MAP 2-5, it may not be as accurate. Again, I don't really have an opinion and personally don't worry about it too much. However, I do have written evidence that it is possible to get a score of at least 280 on MAP 2-5 Math and a score of at least 250 on the MAP 2-5 Reading. I believe that the scale on the MAP 6+ goes up to 300 so theoretically it should also go up to 300 on the MAP 2-5 as well.
Thank you, everyone - if nothing else, I no longer feel alone in my concerns about DD.
apm221 - interesting that it took your DD becoming a DYS for the school to notice.
blackcat - yes, it could be that we simply need the MAP test with the higher ceiling, but I'm not sure that will happen.
KADmom - interesting. I actually DID expect less growth and less growth was projected, because the score was already high. Multiple test periods with no growth, though - that concerns me.
MoN - WOW. I don't think that is how MAP tests are usually used. That probably makes the tests completely useless for any high achievers.
Nearly so. Most of these benchmarking and progress monitoring tools (MAP, GRADE, STAR, EasyCBM, DIBELS, AIMSweb, etc.) are intended to facilitate RTI/MTSS, which is the public health model-inspired system of screening and progressively-intense supports for those performing below grade-level expectations. Occasionally, one can glean some useful info for high-achievers from grade-level testing, but really, they are designed to identify and monitor low-achievers. Unless you use out-of-level testing, you'll probably be bumping into the ceiling on a regular basis.
I just have some unrelated thoughts. I think that after a certain level but without getting anywhere near the ceiling, it does become harder to make significant gains on the reading MAP. Part of it is due to the lack of exposure to certain technical literary terms and techniques, rather than actual reading comprehension level or fluency. On that basis, I wouldn't worry about the stagnant reading scores so much if you are seeing real life gains.
Excellent advice.
While the MAP 2-5 does purportedly test to the same high levels as the MAP 6+, in reality it might at times be harder to get those super high scores due to more limited test items. There is the additional argument that even if you get the super high scores on the MAP 2-5, it may not be as accurate. Again, I don't really have an opinion and personally don't worry about it too much. However, I do have written evidence that it is possible to get a score of at least 280 on MAP 2-5 Math and a score of at least 250 on the MAP 2-5 Reading. I believe that the scale on the MAP 6+ goes up to 300 so theoretically it should also go up to 300 on the MAP 2-5 as well.
To your last point: Not necessarily, as they are continuously-scaled across grade levels. There may not be, as you rightly point out, enough items (if any) of difficulty level 300 on the 2-5 reading test to obtain a 300 score. Also, as these are Rasch scores, and not deviation scores, comparing scores in one subject area to another is even more sketchy than usual. (NWEA specifically says not to do it.)
To your last point: Not necessarily, as they are continuously-scaled across grade levels. There may not be, as you rightly point out, enough items (if any) of difficulty level 300 on the 2-5 reading test to obtain a 300 score. Also, as these are Rasch scores, and not deviation scores, comparing scores in one subject area to another is even more sketchy than usual. (NWEA specifically says not to do it.)
I defer to your expertise. I only saw the 300 as an upper number on some publication relating to MAP. In reality, the reading scores are always lower across the board compared to the math scores for the same percentiles. That's why I can only vouch for the possibility of a 280 on the math and a 250 on the reading for the MAP 2-5.
I met with my middle school's principal to discuss some matters, one of which was my concern over our district's lack of attention to, and data collection on, the growth of the gifted population. She told me one of the reasons is that the gifted population is one of the hardest groups to grow. In fact, not only do they not tend to show a lot of growth, but sometimes they even go down.
Our district is in its second year using MAP. This year, they decided to test everyone at the beginning of the year, and anyone who tested above grade level does not test again that year. The reason is that those kids have already shown mastery of the grade level so why test them? (or teach them?)
Seems they believe that the test shows grade level mastery and nuthin else?
This seems to be how our district uses it. They still make all the kids take it 3 times per year, but they only seem to be looking for scores that fall below a certain level, because those are the students who are at risk for not passing the state-standardized testing. They might qualify for interventions. Right on the test report there is something called SIP % which is the "student's estimated % correct for all test questions aligned to grade and topic." I think this is the number that the district is most interested in (or that's what the cynical side of me says).
Thanks, everyone. If anyone knows of any MAP resources for reading RIT scores over 235, that would be great.
It is simply silly for DD to keep taking this test if she cannot make any progress on it. Since they all have to take it, she will keep hitting the same wall unless we help her. I don't think its a matter of her reading ability at this point, I think it's a matter of above-grade level material on the test that she simply has not been exposed to.
The other active MAP thread somewhere around here has a link to the norms going up to grade 11 (meaningfully, to grade 5 for your kiddo, based on the form of the test).
Thanks, everyone. If anyone knows of any MAP resources for reading RIT scores over 235, that would be great.
It is simply silly for DD to keep taking this test if she cannot make any progress on it. Since they all have to take it, she will keep hitting the same wall unless we help her. I don't think its a matter of her reading ability at this point, I think it's a matter of above-grade level material on the test that she simply has not been exposed to.
DD's score went up very little from winter to spring. Last fall I worked with her on advanced reading stuff, or at least had her take practice tests since we needed the stupid reading score for the g/t program, and her score jumped way up. But I haven't done that over the winter so her score basically plateaued. The school has NO instruction for reading above grade level (third grade)...other than the fact that they can read advanced books up through grade 5 independently. There is no instruction on the books. To do well on the reading tests kids would probably have to understand concepts like "what's the theme?" They may understand the book, but that doesn't mean they'll understand what a "theme" is. The teacher put together reading groups and gave up after 1-2 weeks. So how in the world would kids be able to answer questions that are several grades above their instructional level? They may have the capability to understand the concepts, but still have to be taught.
After my DS took the MAP for the first time as a 1st grader last year, he asked me, "What is foreshadowing?" He had guessed that it meant that the authors used a different, shadowy font in the book. Even in our gifted program, literary terminology is not taught to the kids who are ready to learn it.