Hello,

My daughter's MAP tests results:

Math - 273
Reading - 241
Language Usage - 240.

Do these scores indicate she is gifted?

She is in the 3rd grade in a public school in NJ.
She complains she is bored at school but, unfortunately, I cannot bump her up a grade, because they do not do that at her school. She is fluent in 4 languages as well as she plays the piano and practices tennis and karate. She loves math and takes part in any math competition (so far she has won all of them).

I started looking for a new school for her but it's not easy - allegedly NJ does not allow kids skip the grades.

I would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you.

That's a tricky one in that the MAPs test is not a test of giftedness, it is a test of achievement. Granted, high achievement can certainly correlate with giftedness and given how high the achievement is, I'd venture to guess that she is probably gifted. All of these scores are at or above the 99th percentile for a winter 3rd grader or even a winter 4th grader (and, in the case of math, a winter 7th grader).

There are certainly kids who achieve highly who are not gifted. I'd say that high achievement in a non-gifted child tends to be more in line with a kid who is, say, achieving at the 95th or 98th percentile in an area or two. A kid who is in the 99th in many areas and the 99th even when looking at norms for older kids is more likely to be gifted and not just a high achiever, though.

What, if any, gifted programming does your daughter's school provide if grade skips are off the table? What type of data do they need to identify a child as gifted? This is the info I was able to find online about GT identification/services in NJ: http://www.state.nj.us/education/aps/cccs/g_and_t_req.htm From that, it does appear that all schools must offer some sort of GT services, but it also appears that the state doesn't set the bar for identification or what, exactly, that programming must look like.

First off, I'm going to guess that the math is actually a 237 not a 273? While they insist that MAP actually goes to 300, I haven't seen a 273 on a Math 2-5 test. Not ever, even when a kid got a perfect score- they will eventually run out of questions to answer, scoring roughly around a 260.

On that note, I would ask that the next time she takes MAP, she be given the 6+ test. This will give her the maximum number of questions and the best chance at actually getting her highest score. This is generally recommended when a 5th grader reaches the 240s, but there is no reason a 3rd grader couldn't do the same thing. It's SIMPLE so don't let them give you trouble- they literally click a different button.

NWEA uses 95th percentile to be their "gifted" range, though like Cricket said- it's not actually a test of giftedness. Regardless, those are wicked high scores and she needs differentiation.

That would make more sense - I just didn't have the sense to transpose the numbers! FWIW, a 237 would still be a 99th percentile math score for winter 3rd grade and the 98th for winter of 4th grade.

just an FYI.. I have seen a sub test over that 260 on the primary MAP. Ds score 267 in number sense on primary MAP in the fall of first grade.. it is possible

It was 273. I was surprised too and that's the reason why I started looking for more info.

My daughter is currently in the academically independent class in a public school. And her MAP math score was 273 - I confirmed it with the teacher. How did she get it? I have no idea.. I know she was the only one in the class with this score.

She had been tested before she was admitted to the AI class, all tests were with the max. score and she got her Mensa membership. I hoped the AI class would be more challenged but it is not and she is now asking us to be homeschooled...

I think she was given 6+ test because I had received a letter before the test, stating that she would get a more difficult version of MAP.

I know that a 4th grade kid got 275.

Yes, a subtest. But never a RIT score. NWEA insists it is possible, but I've seen hundreds of reports at this point, including some from very advanced DYS kids. (I am writing a document for our school for teachers to better use RIT scores to inform their teaching.)

If you look at something like this- https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.powayusd.com%2Fprojects%2Fedtechcentral%2Fmaps%2FPDFs%2FCorrelation%2F12-13CorrelationFinal%2FK-5CorrelationChart12-13final.pdf

and this-

You can see that even this district's GATE students aren't scoring that high in math
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.powayusd.com%2Fprojects%2Fedtechcentral%2Fmaps%2FPDFs%2FCorrelation%2F12-13CorrelationFinal%2F6-9CorrelationChart12-13final.pdf

Essentially, from all I've studied about NWEA, the RIT scale is continuous- meaning you can compare score to score to show an individual student's growth. But the tests, particularly when comparing the primary to the 6+, are simply too different (both in types of questions and format) to really know how a kid would actually do. NWEA says the question bank is the same but I've messed with it enough to know this isn't true.

So mine was close Let's hope when she is the 4th grade, she will get 275

neither link worked for me

Sorry I am mobile today and my google docs viewer isn't happy to cut and paste I guess. Find the www in both links and cut and paste from there.

Not true at all. I teach HS in NJ and have a 14 year old in my honors sophomore class who was skipped in elementary. It really depends on the district. There's nothing specific in NJ's code that allows or disallows it. I'd push your principal if you think it's the right route for your child.

Here's a link to NJ's FAQ, which specifically states that acceleration may be an appropriate accomodation:
http://www.state.nj.us/education/genfo/faq/faq_gandt.htm

Here's another link that may be helpful:
http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Resources/Policy/By_State/Show_Policy.aspx?StateID=35

If she took the 6+ test, then it's possible to get a 273.

(I think maybe your posts were being held for moderation since you're a new poster- sorry for things sounding disjointed!)

Thank you, I appreciate your input. I will have to talk to the principal. I was told (in the district) that they did not let skip grades because kids were not mature enough to attend higher grades...

DS7 is in 3rd grade, so I would definitely guess got the 2-5 test, especially as his elementary school only goes to 5th grade. His latest math score was a 265. According to what I've read and been told, the main difference between tests is the starting point. I asked DS about the content of his last test, and he said that it had presented him with some algebra questions.

I think that's a real myth. And it's pretty darn sad. Like the teacher my DD7 had last year who wouldn't give her harder work because she was immature. Um, yeah? She's SEVEN, lady!

Lucounu-
That is true to a certain extent- the main difference is the starting point. However, the 2-5 test has a discontinuation criteria at the end of Algebra I topics and the question bank does not contain all the topics that are on the 6+ test. There is a lot of misunderstanding about the tests and the variations because in most cases, NWEA requires you to pay for a higher level training to get the real nitty-gritty info. Most schools cannot afford that. If you're really curious, ask your teacher for the Descartes Report with the individual subtest scores, as well as the Descartes Goals that include the "skills and concepts to introduce." You should get one for each subtest, of each test given (usually Reading, Language Usage and Math, though some give Science as well)

I know you know this, but how do you know? I believe it to be entirely possible to get a 273 score by taking the 2-5 test. DS's score placed him at the 92nd percentile for 11th graders as well as 92nd percentile for those who had finished Algebra 1. He also told me that the questions got past his knowledge level and he had the feeling he had missed some at the end, same as the other times he took the test.

CAmom- I was given a print out which had columns with 75% right, 50% right, and 25% right. I was told that what ds was "ready to learn" was the 50% items. Yet, at the bottom of the of each page, it said "this is the probability students would correctly answer items measuring these concepts and skills." Is this the Descartes goals?
When the info was given, teacher kept saying he knows all this. So, it made me question whether it was individual breakdown or what most students who score in this range know and are ready to learn. Ds teacher did not answer this question.

I know because I've actually sat the test, looked at the question bank, sat the 6+ test and looked at the question bank. I'm not saying your son didn't get 92nd percentile for 11th grade, just that the score may not necessarily be the same on the 6+ test because the question bank is deeper and goes through a higher level of math.

For example, the 6+ test includes (in just the Algebra subtest) parabolas, linear and non-linear equations, estimation of infinite sequences like 1/n, compound interest, quadratic functions (not equations but functions) and some log equations. These questions are not in the question bank for the 2-5 test.

Overall, NWEA MAP (like IQ tests) are not good at sorting out the higher ranges of the test (generally 270+) because there simply aren't enough questions, nor enough advanced questions for it to discriminate. Many schools are now stopping MAP in 10th grade because they realize the top end isn't deep enough to be useful.

You might find this interesting- this is from an NWEA training report- http://moodle.bismarckschools.org/mod/book/view.php?id=15583&chapterid=1510

On a standard Descartes Goals the 50% is the "Skills to Develop" and the 25% is the "Skills to Introduce". In general, students get a question on a specific skill. If they get it correct, they get a similar question to confirm it wasn't a guess- then they move up to the next band. If they get it wrong, they are bumped down. If they get the next two correct, they are bumped back up- in each skill area. But there is a maximum number of questions on the test per sitting, so the test will actually stop that section even if a kid has gotten them all right, to move on to the next skill. It doesn't just keep going and going until they get them all.

You won't know if you got the right report unless you get the specific subtest breakdown! You should have four or five subtests in each, depending on the school's system (and version they're using)