I am considering having DS9 take the SAT sometime in the next year or two. When is it too young? He took the Explore last year as a 3rd grader and there was still some room for improvement. I have not decided whether to have him take it again this year mostly because it was a rather long drive for us (about two hours). However, unless he stagnates in his development (completely possible), he may outgrow the Explore by 5th grade. We still have the SCAT, but it is so brief, particularly for DS, who tends to finish in half the time, that I prefer him to use another measure.

Anyway, I started thinking about the SAT partly because his Pre-Algebra teacher mentioned giving him some SAT stuff to give him some challenge. If his past MAP scores put him in the 90+ percentile for 10th graders and 11th graders typically take the SAT, does it mean that DS should at least be comfortable with the SAT even if he doesn't score high?

The other issue is that CTY will not administer the SAT to anyone below 7th grader so DS would have to make special arrangements and probably take it with high school juniors. Does anyone have experience doing it?

Yet another issue is whether have him prep or treat it like the SCAT and Explore without prep.

Is it better to do it sooner (within the next year) or wait until I can expect him to do really well?

Any thoughts?

My only concern would be if there is subject matter that they haven't had yet. Maybe you can get some practice materials or something just to make sure they are familiar with it first, even though by that time they might have had it in class (like geometry or some algebra topics; I'm not sure what's on there these days). Plus theres an essay now, right? I guess that's graded separately though.

I started taking it pretty young without prep for placement purposes and use for age-waivers on classes (college courses, community center/art classes...). It was very helpful, as it is an objective, out-of-level test. Not sure how Explore works, but if he hasn't taken a fill-in-bubbles exam, I'd suggest going over that before the exam.

That's good to know. I heard/read somewhere that sometimes you need the local high school's permission. I am assuming that is just if you want to use their facilities for the testing?

I am undecided whether the first time should be with or without prep. On the one hand, an unprep score will be more reflective of true ability. Of course, if we wanted the score to qualify for a special program or something, then obviously prepping will increase his score substantially.

Thanks. DS is a public school kid so very test savvy and used to computer tests, fill-in-bubbles tests, and writing tests.

We have seen nice improvement in Explore test scores for DS10 for the last three years. Now at grade 5, DS thought Explore was too easy for him and wanted to try ACT/SAT. NUMATS only takes 6th graders or higher, the only option is register directly through the testing agency and choose local high school. Since DS has been working with 8th graders in math class, I don't think a room filled with high schoolers would be a problem. DS might need some basic test taking strategies and get used to the pace and time management.

My dd12 has no interest in talent search testing or similar so we didn't try SAT/ACT out with her but she'd be one of those smaller kids who would have been taken as even younger. Dd14 was 10 the first time she took the SAT and was probably 4'6" (before her 10" height spurt in middle school) so clearly young, but also not the only kid in the room.

Yeah, he was taller at nine than dd12 is at 12, although she's getting awfully close to 4'8" - lol! Her school PE teacher deemed her height and weight "not proficient" when they measured and weighed them all at the start of the year.

I do imagine that having the test not count for anything in terms of college admissions, etc. might make for greater confidence in the young kids vs. the high school teens. I must admit, though, that dd14 came out of her first talent search testing at 9 (Explore) crying. She's kind of an anxious person and I think that it was the first test she'd ever taken where she didn't know everything easily and it spooked her. She did a lot better than she thought she would, though, despite leaving during the test repeatedly to go to the bathroom and recompose herself.

Just fyi, we were told that we could request a waiver for ds10 to take the SAT through NUMATS if we wanted, because he did so well on the EXPLORE that it was pointless to take it again (I recall that your ds did as well). The only drawback is that he wouldn't qualify for the awards ceremony no matter how well he did, but I think going once was probably enough for him. To the OP - my other son took the SAT at age 11, and one of my dds at age 10 (both through a middle school gifted program) and neither considered it particularly frustrating, or felt out of place (but they were both with other middle schoolers).
This year, both my boys (10 and 12) decided not to take any standardized tests outside of school. Ds10 had a ton of gifted testing for middle school and ds12 has just moved on to other things. I think it was more useful when we were trying to get the school to realize they needed some accomodations.
As for prepping, we've never done it, and I can't imagine my boys being that interested in prepping. I will say, though, that we recently had 3 kids (7th grade) over for a group project and all 3 had both taken an SAT prep class and were taking ongoing outside math enrichment. So, I guess it's more common than I thought (and they did do better than my son on the math section, where I think prep makes a bigger difference). I'll advise my kids to prep when it counts, and we've still got a few years.
It was really interesting, though, to do the out-of-level testing and see how they did and where their strengths are. It definitely helped guide both us and the school.

I think it's common for people to have their kids take prep courses for the SAT, esp. even if they are applying for SET, etc.
Years ago, I used to teach for Kaplan for SAT/ACT when I was in college and also MCAT when I was in medical school.
I remember I was teaching the SAT when one of the students came up to me at the break and said she found the math part very hard, esp. since she had never had Geometry.
I found it strange that a high schooler taking the SAT had never had Geometry and told her that. She then told me that she was only 10 and was taking the SAT to try and qualify for a gifted program! I looked carefully at her and realized that she was very young-looking and had a Hello Kitty pencil box!
My son took the SCAT test for CTY at age 8 and age 9 at a testing center where everybody else was around 50 years old and taking the GRE, GMAT, or some engineering licensure exam. He didn't seem to notice or care that he was the only child.

It may just be me, but I cannot imagine doing any type of prep for talent search testing. We did try to at least look at the review questions they sent for the Explore so the kids would have some idea as to what the test would look like, but we were trying to get an idea as to what they knew/could do without prep, not what we could teach them to do with a bunch of studying or learning how best to get all the points you could out of the test.

For high schoolers taking the SAT/ACT, etc. I can see doing prep b/c the scores are higher stakes, but at 10 or 11, I wouldn't do it. It would negate the purpose of the testing for me.

One thing to think about is that my kid was sick of the SAT by the time she graduated from high school. She had take the SAT or PSAT 6 times by then! She took it in 7th grade with no prep, finished in top 3 in our state. She was not happy with her math score, so prepped a bit (maybe 2 hours!) for 8th grade, and raised her score enough to finish 3rd in NUMATS for her CR score. Then... her school has kids take the PSAT in 10th & 11th grade. And she took the SAT twice to get the scores she wanted in her junior year. She was heartily tired of that test by the time she was done with the last sitting.

So... the long haul is something to think about. You could have a nine year old take it. But be sure you are thinking about why you would do it. Are you having trouble getting the placement you need for him? Do you need it for entrance to talent search classes or something like THINK? If it is just because you have had him testing every year, and this seems like a logical step, consider taking a couple of years off.

DS10 is taking the SAT on the 26th. Almost no prep yet (Maybe he will have time for a couple practice tests before he goes) We signed him up via paper and it will be held at a local HS with no accomadations. I don't expect it to be a big deal, although he is about 75-80 lbs and about 4 10 (and a 1/2, as he says). After reading this I will help him with answers for questions from HS students during the break. I am a little concerned about PSAT issues for National Merit down the road. However thats down the road a bit. He is mostly trying for SET and does not expect to make it this time, But maybe. The written part is just for fun, and he should try to do his best on the Language arts but not much is expected, its not his strong suit. I do worry about burn out because of the test leangth, hopefully he does not get bogged down in it.

I can see that test taking strategies might actually be necessary for the SAT since it will probably be the first test that will be very hard for DS and he can potentially get bog down with a hard question and not use his time wisely.

Thanks, Dottie. That's good to know. I may be thinking of the AP tests.

The curiosity factor has occured to me as well. We got questions even when DS and DD took the SCAT at age 7. They are both small and look young as well so had been mistaken for Kindergarteners in second grade.

I am beginnning to lean towards either having DS look at the questions that are on the SAT or having him try each full section at separate times so he knows what to expect and feel confident when he has to take the full test. The writing section is actually the only part to which DS might object.

Neither DS nor DD was phased by the adults at Prometric (for the SCAT) because the personnel at the center told them the tests that the adults were taking. However, they did comment about the older kdis at the Explore test. I am not sure if they were in fact the youngest but they were the smallest by far.

Well, if DS takes the test within the next two years, it would not be for talent search testing since our local talent search doesn't provide SAT testing until 7th grade. In fact, there would not be any stakes at all. At the same time, it would not be ideal if he was not comfortable with the test.

That's a valid point about the over-exposure to SAT. I am not exactly sure I would have DS take it in the near future. Part of it is curiosity. The MAP test has him at a level way beyond what he has covered (Pre-Algebra). For example, the algebra and geometry I understand siince simpler versions of them are introduced in elementary math and pre-algegra but I am puzzled by the trigonemtry and other less common topics. I question how vigorous the MAP test actually is so it would be helpful to see his performance on a well-vetted test actually covering high school topics.

Good luck to your DS on making the SET cut-off.

I guess SET is something to consider, although DS could take the SAT with the talent search in 7th grade when he is 12.

The test length is what concerns me as well. I worry that DS will be burned out by the essay part on top of the math and CR.

According to the information on MAP, the only trigonometry topics were sine, cosine, tangent, logarithmic functions, and law of cosines so it is aomewhat basic trig. I don't think DS got all the trigonomtry questions but he must have gotten more than half of them to get 268 in that section. It may be that he is a good guesser since it is multiple choice.

Edwin, do you have a feeling for how active SET is and what it's actually like? I wondered about it a while back (and posted about it in fact) but I've rather gone off the idea, paradoxically because at this point I'm not convinced success at SAT maths shows much about maths talent (as opposed to competence) so I mistrust an organisation that uses it to judge that. Tbh SAT math questions have all been too easy to hold any interest for DS for over a year; the challenge to getting a high mark would be purely in speed, and the biggest component of that would be speed filling in the answer sheet. So I wonder whether in SET one might more find well-prepped kids rather than very talented ones, kwim? But I'd be glad to be wrong; maybe it's overwhelmingly v talented kids who bother to jump through the hoop, even if it is the wrong hoop!

In the hopes that my prior post wasn't totally offensive...

I'm not meaning to imply that people here are doing massive prep for these tests and I really do see a big difference between doing something like review questions that the test company sends and working with the child on test taking strategies vs. signing the child up for a full Princeton Review course prior to taking the SAT at 10. The former, IMHO, is something that helps the kid know what to expect and develop skills that will help him in school overall.

SAT math has 30% on Basic Algebra, 15% on Advanced Algebra and only 7% on Geometry. So kids with solid pre-Algebra background would still be able to rise up to the challenge. MAP test can be a bit tricky. My DS was upset by one hard question in MAP math last time, the difficulty of the questions went down from there, and he was not given any second chance for the challenge before the test ends.

Is the SAT normed by age or grade level? In other words, will my 11 year old 7th grader get scores based on his age or his grade level? He's taking it Jan 26. We're not prepping at all - just a "this is how this test works" class by the school.

There is just one set of national norms for the SAT and they are based on everyone who takes the test, so mostly 11th graders. His scores and percentiles will reflect how he did in comparison to the most recent norming group, which will be as compared to high schoolers. Some of the talent searches also have percentiles as compared to other kids in the same grade, but I've never seen percentiles for age, which would be interesting to see especially for those kids who are not of the typical age for grade.

Oh, yeah, duh! Sorry for the dumb question. I don't know what I was thinking:)

It would be very interesting, though, to see it broken out by age. Thanks, Cricket.