Hi Everyone,

My ds just turn 5 in August and is starting Kindergarten this year. He is very stubborn and can manipulate adults to do almost everything for him by pretending that he is not able to do certain things and arguing his way out of doing things. He has therapy for speech, gross and fine motor and therefore we have not pushed him until lately as he has improved a lot in these area. I am a kindergarten teacher and you would think I would know what to expect for him this coming year and would therefore not be quite so apprehensive but I work for a private special education school so it is very different from public kindergarten. The thing I'm worried about is that ds will develop a habit of underperforming and will not preserve and face challenges.

For example, ds began reading at 3 and used to love books but always wanted us to read to him instead. At 4, he read Frog and Toad to his grandmother but we didn't even know he could read that well. This entire year we have been trying to get him to read to us and he will read a sentence here or there but usually not without some persuasion. Now he is about to start kindergarten and I know that the kindergarten teacher will do a reading assessment but ds might not read for her and then he will end up reading at a level much below what he is capable of learning. This week I thought it would be good to sit down with him and make him show me what he can do and practice reading so that he doesn't under perform during the assessment. I used a program call raz kids and which he reads a book and gets to earn stars and then the program has items which he can buy with the stars earned. Yesterday was his first day and his reading was a bit choppy but he read a J leveled book and today he read again and he read a L book quite well and fluently with just 3 words he didn't know. He understood what he was reading too. So now I know he can read at least at a second grade level but he only read half the book and had to stop until I coerced him to finish the book. So this is my question, do I push him or do I make sure the school pushes him or do I just leave it? I love to hear your opinions. I do apologize for the sloppy writing and non editing. I am having some eyesight problems . Thanks in advanced!

IMHO, reading should not be about pushing yourself to read the most challenging material you are capable of, but about enjoying what you read. If it's clear that he is not going to have problems learning to read, I wouldn't worry about what he's reading or what level the teacher thinks he is at, personally. He may decide that he'd enjoy reading harder books, and if he does I'm sure the teacher will provide harder books for him to read. Until then, perhaps it'd be better for him to be challenged in other ways.

You're right that reading should be enjoyable. The problem is that he doesn't really ever want to be challenged. I guess it isn't just about the reading its more about building work ethics. Does that make sense?

I think we are in the same boat with the perfectionism. My DD (4 today) can read and has been able to since before age 2. When she is in the mood she will bring the books over and read to us, but the minute she stumbles on a word she is done. We haven't pushed her but I've wondered sometimes if I did push just a little would she get past this hurdle or would it cause more issues with her perfectionism?

I wish I could give you advice but I certainly haven't figured it out. Just know you aren't alone and I know your frustration.

That is my ds all right! He frustrated easily and it seems to be getting worse as he is getting older that's why I am a bit worried.

I guess the issue that I have is that I see a big distinction between pushing yourself and being pushed by others. IMO, the first is how you learn work ethic, and the second is...well, not.

I'd focus more on the perfectionism, if that's the issue, than on trying to get him to read more. So, I'd try talking about how making mistakes can be a good thing (for oh so many reasons), how learning is a process that takes time and effort, how one can deal with frustration and disappointment, etc. I'd also try modeling a positive attitude toward mistakes.

You're not crazy. �This is what you're seeing that's bothering you. �It's not really just about the reading, is it? �Some people believe in hard work leading step by step to better performance. �Other people, like your son, learn so many things so easily. �They know this means they're smarter than the average bear. �They secretly fear when they have to work a little harder at something it must mean they're not as smart as they thought they were. �So they take measures to avoid challenging work. �Not to minimize your concerns, but left alone he's got a good chance of outgrowing this problem eventually. �But I don't have a problem with a little loving guidance from Mamma to hurry it along a little bit. �You'll be doing him a favor. �
http://www.drchrustowski.com/AcademicBehaviorpaperA.pdf

Carol Dweck wrote the frequently quoted research on this theory.

Other people, like your son, learn so many things so easily. �They know this means they're smarter than the average bear. �They secretly fear when they have to work a little harder at something it must mean they're not as smart as they thought they were. �

I don't think I quoted this right...

but how does he know already that he is smarter than the average bear? He's been doing this since he was a toddler and we never really comment on how smart he is because I believe in minimal praise and always praise the effort rather than the ability.

Thanks for the link.

I don't know that he does. It just fit what you were saying so I thought I'd throw it out there to see if it would help you put a finger on what's troubling you.

just a suggestion, you might want to get his eyes checked. DD5 started K last year reading at about a 2nd grade level (she was 4 almost 5 at the time), at times she would show more but would tire very very easily. I never pushed because I thought she would do what she wanted to do in her own sweet time,lol. What concered me was that her older sister seemed to progress so much faster than her (they both were very,very early readers) Just from some stuff I read here I decided to get her eyes checked (this must include having the pupils dilated) she needed glasses (badly) and sees a vision therapist. What a difference the glasses have made. My point is sometimes gifted kids will compensate for what they can't see, normally a child at 4 reading at a 2nd grade level wouldn't be looked at as having a problem, I could just tell there was something else wrong, her being so tired and being reluctate to do school work sometimes even though I knew it was easy for her.

That cite, if I recall correctly, basically says that people that think that their intelligence is fixed are more prone to those sorts of problems. One way around the problems would then seem to be to teach your kid that his intelligence isn't fixed.

In fact, that seems to be true in reality depending on how one defines intelligence, and whether one sticks to a practical discussion.

For your son, I think a few things may be important to keep in mind:

1) Your son needs to feel valued, to feel a positive reward of some sort (which can be just your appreciation), even when he fails. Perhaps, especially then. A good first thing to try is to praise him for trying.

2) Your son may be over-emphasizing the consequences of failure. He probably feels like HE is a failure, and/or that you think he's not smart, etc. He needs to learn that getting one tiny thing wrong is no big deal. Perhaps telling him about the many mistakes of great people throughout history would help; brilliant people fail all the time, though their successes are awesome.

Take away the stigma of failure on a task in any way you can-- be creative. Communicate to him clearly that you love him not because he is smart, but because you are his mom and he gets unconditional love no matter what; and that in fact just being smart is no big deal, it's what you do with it that matters. Get him psyched about doing something great with his life, not about being smart; de-emphasize that.

I'd specifically do more things with him that are not pass-fail, like art, and praise him whenever he focuses and tries hard. Don't just praise the result-- praise the effort (although I would of course praise any tendency toward improvement in any area).

If there is a failure-possible (or, even better, failure-prone) activity he is willing to still work at, I'd do a lot of that. Again, praise his effort, and then when he stumbles and overcomes an obstacle, praise him and his attitude, not so much the result. I mean, you praise the result, but emphasize that it's the result of the winning attitude and effort.

Also, try to find activities where things are not meant to be perfect. Anything with mocking-up or models as intermediate stages may help. For example, you can storyboard a book if he is perfectionist about drawing; have him do rough sketches of each panel, only later drawing the actual book.

For reading, specifically, you can introduce more phonics / phonetics teaching. You can propose this as an empowerment strategy, so that he's better-equipped when he faces a frustrating word, emphasizing of course that it is good to prepare and work hard, because reading is hard work. (Sorry for being so blathery in this post, but hopefully you more than get the idea by now. You are sending multiple messages with this sort of approach, including that you understand a task is pretty tough, lessening the perceived consequence of failure in front of you/others; that preparation/effort improves the chance of success; etc.)

These are pretty good in my opinion, and may quickly result in an increase in his ability to sound out new words:
http://www.amazon.com/Phonics-Made-...mp;s=books&qid=1282051974&sr=8-1

I agree with no5no5 that it sounds like he's sufficiently on his way with the reading, so that you don't have to push, and I'd stop doing that. Encouragement is another thing, of course.

I am teaching my son programming, which is pretty good for counteracting the negative side of perfectionism. There are plenty of chances for small formatting errors, but they're easy to explain as of little to not consequence; that's why there are compilers, I tell him, to catch the little mistakes that humans sometimes make. But at a macro level, programming is creative in nature, which is non-threatening and satisfying to him.

All sorts of things come to mind reading your post so bear with me! I have a former-reluctant reader who was reading easy phonics books at 4 1/2 but had no interest in doing more. He's now 7 1/2.

1) Ditto the get his eyes checked post! My DS began wearing glasses just before he turned 5. His reading level jumped 3 grade levels in two months. Maybe it was the glasses, maybe his brain was finally ready. We'll never know- but he does have a severe astigmatism and insists on his glasses now to read anything.

2) Drop reading all together for a few weeks. Leave high-interest reading material all around the house. Set aside time for you to have quiet reading time, but don't read to him- just read for you. Don't mention it or put any pressure on him, just watch and observe. Does he model you? Pick up a book and start then put it down? Beg for you to read to him? You'll learn a lot about what's going on in his head if you just lower all expectations and watch.

3) Take him to the bookstore/library and ask him to pick 3 books- a too easy book, a medium book and a too hard book. Then take them home. Ask him to alternate pages/paragraphs in the too hard book. Make a fuss when you're done about how the too hard book isn't too hard anymore!

These are all specific strategies that people gave me when I was trying to figure out why my kid who tested HG+ wasn't reading. I was worrying about 2E issues, dyslexia and a host of other stuff.

Also, if you actually have a kindergarten teacher that will test the highest range of his level- you're very very lucky! It's pretty rare to get one that will even test beyond 2nd grade level. My DS is in 3rd grade now and I don't think he's had a full above level reading test in two years... other than the Lexile component of NWEA testing!

My DS6 is reading at a 4th grade level but really fought the idea of reading outloud to me. I had wanted him to read outloud to me just for the 20 minutes a day that was the goal for the summer reading program, since I know that his reading level in the early grades is based on his ability to read outloud to the teacher. But, I decided to change my tactics rather than make reading a chore for him. Instead, I instituted the program at home that they use at school: DEAR (Drop Everything And Read)time. So, essentially, I announce to everyone in the house that it is DEAR time and we all find a place to sit down and read to ourselves for a certain period of time (in our case, 20 minutes). Anyone who wants to read longer can, and they all often choose to read longer since they really start to get into their books. But, since everyone is doing the same thing at the same time, there is no resistance to reading. And, since I can't tell how well my DS6 is reading since I'm not listening to him, I ask him (excitedly) to tell me all about what he's read. Sure, he may be making some mistakes in his reading, but as long as he's able to tell me all about the story, then I have faith that he's reading well enough. Too, since reading is a fun experience, it obviously encourages reading at lots of other times during the day.

Also, DS6, last summer, never wanted to read aloud to anyone except me and so I was worried that he wouldn't show his teacher what a great reader he was. Well, turns out, I had no reason to worry. When the teacher asked him to read, he read. I think since that was her job and she was an authority figure, it never occurred to him to say no to her. Obviously, your DS's personality would make a difference here, but I just wanted to say that it's a possibility that your DS will read to the teacher and show his true abilities even if he is reluctant to read outloud to anyone else.

I think you'll find that your child will react totally differently to his teacher than to you, when it comes to doing stuff. If I give my son anything challenging, he gets really angry and defensive - even though I know he CAN do it, if he tries. At school, he'll do anything they ask of him - grrr

He doesn't have to know how smart he is compared to others. He knows that he doesn't like to fail. When he reads aloud he hears his mistakes and he doesn't like that.

When kids have to make mistakes to accomplish most everything, they deal with it and move on. When things come easily, they can get hung up on making mistakes and will not put themselves in a position to make mistakes.

Even if we praise the hard work, we still have to provide the situations for making lots of mistakes. We also have to model the willingness to make mistakes and try things we don't think we can do (in front of other people).

I'm thinking about trying rock climbing at the local REI just because I don't think I can do it and I think it will be instructional to both me and my DD if I try.

Another possibility... He is not comparing himself to other kids but instead comparing himself to the adults around him. That's exactly what our child was doing at that age. So, while he may have been five years advanced in a particular skill area he'd think he was way behind because he was comparing himself to adults. Obviously we never suggested he was bad at any of these things but as many perfections before him that was the conclusion he came away with.

So here's my idea grateful mom. Let's pretend your son has a message board where he could post his thoughts about this situation. What do you think he'd say? Would he describe himself in ways similar to what you describe ("stubborn", "manipulative", "avoiding a challenge")? How would he describe you and this situation?

I'm sure you are speaking nicely to him. But, is it possible that he's getting a different message? Like maybe he picks up on your worry and is getting the mistaken idea that he's behind on reading or that you will think he's making mistakes.

Thank you everyone for all your responses. I think everything you guys said is very helpful. I will definitely explore the eyesight thing. Actually ds is colorblind and was tested for it last year but his dad took him and isn't sure what tests the eye doctor did. I did wonder that but then yesterday he read a Clifford book which had smaller print and he was fine. There were only about 1-2 lines per page though.

I am starting to teach him some reading strategies. Last week I gave him a ruler to put under the sentence as a guide and he really seemed to read better with it and will now ask for it.

Lucounu, I did think that perhaps I should give him some phonics instruction. I haven't really given him any instruction so I think he has learned reading primarily by sight and when he doesn't know a word I just tell him and he memorizes it. This method however leaves him a bit dependent on me though. I was thinking that the K teacher would teach the strategies to him so it would give him something to do in K but perhaps the timing is just too late. As a teacher I usually try to lessen my students' frustrations by teaching self-correcting strategies as they learn to read but in my son's case it didn't really work out that way. I guess in a way I thought that teaching him these things would be pushing him.

Camom, I did try the relax and let him take the lead in reading. I only started to make him read more than a sentence in the last few days. The last two days it was a bit more of a struggle but today he was much more ready to read and read the entire book by himself with no protests. My ds is a child of routine. He doesn't like new things but once he is familiar with something he likes to stick to it so perhaps it won't be such a struggle after all.

I am going to try several different strategies everyone here has suggested. He is just five and I'm sure I'll learn how he operates on a "school" level as the years go on. I'm still not sure if it is a perfectionist thing. I usually never know what he's thinking or feeling. Ds is not a sharer of feelings and thoughts.

I did observe his swim class today. I had observed him also at the beginning of camp and again several weeks into camp and he was advancing quite well and loving it. He really was trying so hard at it. However when I observed him this time I noticed that after 7 weeks of swimming lessons at camp, his swimming has actually not progressed at all! His best friend is in his swim class it is just the two of them. The swim director lets them be in a class together because she knows they are best friends. His friend is scared of the water and was several level behind my ds. I didn't think this was any big deal since they only get to be together during camp so I didn't make them go into different classes. I noticed today that his friend did get better but ds is swimming is now at exactly the same level as his friend's! He literally waits for his friend to catch up to him during all the exercises and follows his friend's movements to the T! So anyways, I just don't know what is going on with this kid. Maybe he just wants to be like everyone else. He is just starting to notice differences between him and some of his peers.

If you force him to read he will just learn to hate reading.

And if he is in a public school then you shouldn't expect him to be encouraged to read in kindergarten, more likely he will be encouraged to dumb himself down to the dumbest kid in the class... at least that is the way public schools are in my area.

Your best option if he is in a public school is to explain that school is for being around others his age and the teach him at home.

LOL - I read this and thought - sounds just like my kid ! He really is an absolute angel at school in every way, but any time I try to challenge him - watch out !

Perhaps you son just enjoys being read to? It is a wonderful way for a parent and child to connect and for a little one especially that is really important. Just because he has the ability to read to himself doesn't mean he necessarily will enjoy it, and pushing him may mean he takes longer to come to find joy in it.