DS23mo is a classic introvert and needs time and space to warm to new activities and environments. In group settings, he prefers to sit to the sidelines and observe carefully, as though he is internalizing the activity and harmonizing himself with it.

When presented with new activities, even one-on-one with me, he prefers to see the process from start to finish before actively engaging. Then, once his understanding of the activity or concept is well formed, he dives in confidently and enthusiastically and performs effectively flawlessly.

At home, this poses no problem. DH and I simply respect whatever boundaries DS sets and let him determine his own pace. I do try to encourage attempting challenging activities before mastery because I believe persistence is a valuable trait to inoculate against perfectionism.

Where the situation gets sticky is in group activities around young children (say, aged 2 to 4). The problems that arise tend to fall into these camps:

1. DS senses someone has invaded his personal space and feels threatened.

2. Other child is eager to play with DS and/or his toy, while DS would prefer to be alone or take time to warm up to the child before socializing.

3. DS is bothered by lots of movement and noise made by people around him when in relatively enclosed spaces.

I'm realizing how ingrained the expectation of extraversion is in western socialization. I can commiserate with all 3 situations, so much so that I'm beginning to question my self-concept as an extrovert.

DS has considerable verbal fluency, so we've been working on talking through his feelings and desires when other children. But at 2-4, not many children understand his requests, let alone respect them. He will say things like:

"I need more space please."

"I don't want to play, thank you."

"Please don't touch me."

"I am using my [insert toy]. You can't have it."

"Please go away."

Yesterday poor DS became inconsolable when two little boys began following him around the park trying to (not maliciously) take his toy away. He went through all the language above, then turned to me and began crying. The other parents had such little control over their children, even when I confronted them, that DS and I had to leave to give him the space he needed. This was after I had to physically prevent them from reaching DS.

We had a discussion on the walk to a quieter park about how it's okay to withdraw from an over-stimulating situation, and I explained to him that other young children are just learning to talk and may not understand him. I encouraged him to continue to use his words and praised him effusively for speaking his needs plainly and respectfully. He really was clear.

Any recommendations from veterans on managing respect for introverts in the outside world would be terrific. I'd also be keen to hear of any books on raising introverts that you folks might recommend.

Thanks so much!

Thanks for the great feedback, Portia. We have him enrolled in swimming and a general ball sports class, which give him two half hour sessions each week around age-peers in the sort of environment you describe.

As always, I appreciate your sensitive insights and will be putting your recommendations into practice.

I'm in awe of you and your child, how naturally you've analyzed and accommodate his needs, and teach him strategies to self-advocate... and how naturally he employs these techniques, even at a young age. Have you considered suggesting that your son try the simple words, "Stop", "No", and even calling "Help!" when others may not respond to more complete communication? Often children may understand this, even with limited vocabulary, or limited English. Adults within earshot may also get a clear picture of what is going on.

Meanwhile I'm sorry to hear that other children would not back off, and may have been unresponsive to their parents (or the parents were unresponsive to the situation). Not to make excuses, but it is possible these children may have ADD/ADHD or other diagnoses in their future and their parents may be overwhelmed and out of ideas other than to let their children run and play in the park until they are exhausted.

I share the following to encourage you in the important task of helping your son maintain control of his physical space. It is my understanding that in daycare, preschool, playground, etc it is most often the children with limited vocabulary, frustrated and unable to express themselves, who tend to bite other children as a means of communicating their displeasure. Unfortunate illnesses can be spread by a bite, and institutions tend to protect the identity and medical history of the biter.

Most likely you lifted your son and whisked him away to "physically prevent them from reaching DS"... this is wise as in general parents may not touch another person's child. Some may allege assault.

I will also be interested to see what books others may have to recommend for raising introverts.

Mine is not an introvert, Aquinas, but is highly verbal and began having "group" issues in Bible class at 8 mo. The other children grabbed at him and babbled. He used words and was truly frightened and horrified at their interaction. It was really hard at that point because we couldn't reason through it together.

It has been a long road to 7yrs old and we did have to make careful choices in friends and sometimes environments. Both of us prefer to avoid crowds. Smaller groups work better. For my child, getting involved with a MOMS club (Moms Offering Moms Support--stay at home mother group) and finding other bright children with ATTENTIVE parents helped the most.

The other mothers bridged the development gaps when my son verbalized his needs to their children and theirs did not respond. I really think the key is the other parents at this age. Some are working hard on socializing and training their children well.... others just want a break and tune out.

I agree with Portia though that this improves as the NT kids begin to develop more.

Thanks indigo, for your kind words and suggestions. I spend about 96% of DS' waking time with him, so I've become somewhat attuned to him.

I really like your suggestion about simple one-word responses. All this time, I've been focusing on how to have DS communicate effectively, but I failed to appreciate the very real communication barrier between DS and his age-mates. It's no wonder he gets so frustrated at the impasse. That suggestion is more attention-getting.

The other day, a parent actually laughed and commented on "how cute" DS was when he cried and said, "I need more space." Call me a stodgy old stick, but I said, "He's not being cute, he's afraid and is trying to protect himself." I think most parents who hear him self-advocate almost don't believe what they're hearing and get caught up in a did-he-just-say-that loop. Ugh!!! Try listening and respecting his request, parents!

ITA about not prejudging others' children or touching them. How children behave at a given point in time is influenced by so many factors to which I'm not privvy, so I try to assume the best. One of the little boys was being a genuinely friendly, if somewhat clingy, natural extrovert.

I will use my body as a passive barrier between another child and DS, but I actively avoid touching the other child for exactly the reasons you mention, even if only a gentle redirecting pat on the elbow is needed. I'd prefer not to do this wherever possible because I think it sends a subtle message to DS that he needs to be protected from other children.

HappilyMom, "frightened and horrified" about sums it up.

I'm of the same opinion that this mostly boils down to parents. Where we are, I'm in the extreme minority as a full-time SAHM. Most young children near us have nannies, even if the mothers stay home, and the vast majority of the nannies and parents turn the children loose while using smartphones (iNannies and iParents, to use an expression Dude and I co-coined).

I signed up for some activities with DS this year in the hopes of finding like-minded parents, but the search is proving less successful than I'd hoped. I'm going to look into MOMS to see if we have a local chapter. We're losing our favourite playmates, who are returning to Spain after a year long sabbatical by the oncologist wife at a local hospital, and their family is leaving some big shoes to fill.

hi aquinas! i'm a bit late to the thread, but i wanted to chime in because it all sounds sooooo familiar!

when DD5 was your son's age, she also had many of these issues. it really puzzled me at the time, because it seemed like she was a complete magnet for too-much/too-close/too-aggressive attention. she did all the stuff your DS has done to try to explain to the other kids that she needed time and space, but no matter how clear she was, she still routinely needed adult intervention. as it turned out, the kids (even the 6 year olds at her Montessori) were simply too small to really hear her.

Pre-K was, unfortunately, more of the same. every single kid seemed to think that DD was her One True Friend, and yet at the same time DD reported feeling completely isolated, frustrated and angry. the good news is that her dance buddies (8ish) are a whole other story. they get her - and she gets them, so like HappilyMom said, the early years really were very difficult.

during that awful time, we did manage to befriend a family with kids in a range of ages - we didn't do it on purpose, but if i could have planned it, i would have! the beauty of a whole mess of kids is that everyone could take turns playing together and it frankly seemed a bit more natural than trying to forge a friendship between my 2 y/o and a 6 y/o from school!

oh! and i just remembered an observation DD once made about "park friends" that might help. she said that park friends are not the same as real friends. they can be ok to play with, but you don't know each other well enough to know what might upset the other person. over time, i've seen her use this insight to get over conflicts that she didn't see coming - and i think it has helped her a lot. of course, she's totally given up on age-peers at this point, so her new park strategy simply involves finding a younger kid to "play" with as a gateway to chatting up the parent(s). your DS is a bit young to employ that one yet, but... maybe next year? he'll totally be the big kid to all the 2 year olds playing in the sandbox with their parents!

and btw - i completely empathize with you on that "cute" comment - DD used to announce she needed to "go away to manage her feelings" in that kind of situation and i've seen a few of those responses, too. they made me want to SCREAM!

doubtfulguest, I'm so glad to hear your thoughts, but am sorry your DD had a similar experience. I need a red phone here with a direct line to you sometimes, it seems.

I'm now starting to appreciate the logic of parents of HG+ children having another child, in part, so the firstborn has a natural playmate. (A LOT of assumptions feed into that statement, though.) I reached out to some local homeschooling groups to see if we could join them on some excursions and was told DS was too young to participate. I was surprised.

The logical part of me wants to keep actively searching for like-minded families, but the solitude-loving part of me recoils at the thought of having to make nice with more insensitive parents. Your daughter's apt insight on "park friends" sums up how I feel about most social interaction. No wonder DS feels the way he does! Time for me to step outside my comfort zone, I guess!!

oh, yes, what a beautiful thing that is to see, isn't it! way back in the day, it warmed my heart every time i'd heard from the teachers at Montessori that DD had spread her little arms in the playground and clearly stated, "DO NOT TOUCH MY BODY!" i used to joke that these boundaries were good training for being a teenager... but all jokes aside, it's just so key for kids (and especially introverts, who may prioritize blending in) to really know their own minds.

hee! that's lovely. red phone/PM me anytime!

and yeah - now that i'm homeschooling anyway, i frequently think "if i'd had another..." but honestly, this one was ENOUGH. i rarely say this (thought i think i have to y'all here) the main reason we didn't have two is that this one is beyond exhausting. i was so relieved when i started to research giftedness that the high-intensity is a real thing - for years, i thought i was just really weak!

Aquinas, have you read "Quiet, The Power of Introverts in a World that Won't Stop Talking," by Susan Cain yet? I found it to be very enlightening and helpful in understanding which situations affect me (and DH, and the boys) most and how to balance those out with decompression/quiet time.

Portia, many many thanks for everything you said. As a SAHM, it's wonderful to have a sanity check and receive external validation. You and doubtfulguest are officially my speed-dial ladies.

It's reassuring to hear you validate my own thoughts about the lack of value in socializing with age peers when reciprocity is all but impossible. I couldn't agree more about the importance of socialization being a positive experience. We're starting to see the balance tip in favour of fear, which I would like to reverse by being quite selective with playmates.

I just spent the evening protecting boundaries like a mama bear with the in-laws, who have zero concept of personal space. Three hours with the in-laws feels like three months of root canals. (Mana, if you're reading this, now I need that drink.)

Yes to everything here.

Definitely not weak. Parenting DS is a 20-hour-a-day job with no sick leave. I imagine its similar with your DD. But this job has the best benefits in the world, and I get to kiss my "boss" good morning every day as he looks up at me with his bright eyes.

If I'm never able to have another child, I will still feel completely fulfilled, because DS is giving me the experience of parenting three "normal" children!

Thanks for the recommendation, CommectingDots. Haven't read it yet, but I'm adding that title to my Christmas list! Much appreciated.

aquinas, I'm sending you a virtual slice of triple chocolate cheesecake drenched in kahlua sauce along with a drink.

My DD is an extrovert so our struggle is a little different but I certainly feel your pain. DD keeps on getting burnt and it's hard to watch. It got worse for us after she turned 2 but I don't think it has to be that way. I thought I had to make DD get along with age-peers at all cost. I didn't want her to be one of those "weird" children who only knew how to get along with much older children and adults.

In many ways, we're still trying and it's still not working well. I guess we don't learn very quickly. DD seems to have made some progress with age-peers. She's learned to stay away and if they as in the trouble makers come seeking her attention, she ignores them or gives them the death stare. If we were to do this all over again, I think I'd have tried harder to convince SO that she needed to be in a 3-6 Montessori classroom when she was 2. She was potty trained and she was socially, emotionally, and cognitively ready. There wasn't much point in holding her back.

DS (5) was similar at that age, still is with unknown children. This..
"When presented with new activities, even one-on-one with me, he prefers to see the process from start to finish before actively engaging. Then, once his understanding of the activity or concept is well formed, he dives in confidently and enthusiastically and performs effectively flawlessly"
...was perfectionism related for DS.
Socially at that age our best bet was one in one with selected children, preferably ones with older siblings, adults, adolescents and some formal groups. Grade 1 now and like a different child socially at school (very comfortable), compared with being at the park with unknown children.
It's a tricky age when your peer group can't really talk/understand you...

We have had similar issues with group activities, even though DS is an extrovert. Honestly, repetition has become a major issue too. We have recently cut music due to repetition, even though he loves music... He doesn't love music class. We have had luck with parenttoddler gymnastics, where he has the illusion of being around age peers, who are very closely supervised, but the teacher can differentiate for him and fully demonstrate what is to be done.

We have had two things work well...

One is a family with an age peer and older sibling who are very verbal. DS follows the older sibling and the age peer follows DS. They have very attentive parents, so I suspect that is pretty key.

The other is his Strider Balance Bike. He rides well now and at the park can keep up with the older kids. They just ride around and don't talk much but he loves it. In the Spring, he will be getting a bike with pedals, no training wheels, and I suspect this will help even more. The other kids just assume he is much older than he is.

I have given up trying to push him into playing traditionally with age peers. YMMV.

Mana, thanks for the reassurance...and virtual treats! On a side note, it's too bad you aren't here with us for Canadian Thankagiving, because I think you'd enjoy our dinner!

Bobbie, it's interesting that you picked up on the perfectionism element of the behaviour. After reading a few articles on Hoagies, I almost wonder if sensitivities and perfectionism can masquerade as introversion in a very young child. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

SAHM, thanks for sharing those recommendations.

It's funny your mentioning the balance bike because we're eyeing one for DS for next spring. I saw you mention it on a previous thread and was compelled to investigate further. They look like a good stand-in (no pun intended) for tricycles.

My DD8 is definitely an extrovert, as she's energized by being around other people and being the center of attention... but she has exhibited all the same behaviors indicated in the OP, of needing time and space to acclimate to new environments, activities, and especially, people. This was obvious even as an infant, when we had to insist that nobody pick her up until she indicated she was ready for them.

When meeting new kids in a park-like situation, she's been slow and reluctant to warm to some, and instantly fell in love with others (with the attendant heartbreak when it was time to leave). In the former situations, what helped her ease through them was the fact that she was playing with me, so that gave her something of a security blanket while she continued to ponder the new social situation. If one of the other kids tried to talk to her and she ignored them, I'd gently prompt her to respond, and I'd also clue her into some social cues she might have missed ("Hey, that kid wants to play with you"), but otherwise, she'd get no pressure from me, and I'd just let the situation develop organically.

Sometimes the other kids were more interested in playing with me than with DD.

Until fairly recently, this described my DD8 perfectly.

Of course, we knew the difference between perfectionism and introversion because of the way she behaved with us, and with people she was already comfortable with. Her extroversion shone brightly there.

My DD14 didn't really ENJOY interactions with other children until she was about 10yo.

Even then, it was mostly on a limited basis, and resulted in a lot of frustration for quite superficial interactions, ultimately.

The first time I saw evidence of her own internally-constructed self-advocacy was when she, at 11mo, turned, planted both feet, and put BOTH palms squarely in front of her, shouting "NO!" The aggressor (a boy about 13mo) tumbled to the ground after colliding with her outstretched arms, which is apparently exactly what she intended.

I was mortified that my child had been involved in a "physical altercation" until the teacher explained the situation with a great deal of glee-- apparently this other child had been pursuing her for DAYS when she finally "snapped," given that she'd unsuccessfully tried using verbal and nonverbal means to get him to leave her alone. So she tried passive-- but assertive-- resistance. This is the day that she got her nickname of Little Ghandi. She can seem passive and easy-going to a fault, but she DOES have boundaries, and she will enforce them.

My DD was frequently terrorized by roaming children with food. They refused to respect boundaries-- and their parents were not responsive, either. It ruined the park for us for many years-- and even the library, as it happened. Being "hugged" by overly friendly children covered in a food allergen wasn't my idea of a good time-- nor my daughter's, either.

Eventually, I realized that my DD wasn't pining for contact with other children. All this was doing was giving us both PTSD. (Which I realize sounds extreme, but imagine your own preschooler being chased by a peer holding a deadly weapon and then I think it makes more sense.) She was quite happy by herself, for the most part, and she certainly wasn't learning to be a spoiled brat simply by virtue of not being chased or assaulted by peers. Even as a teen, she will choose NO interaction over negative peer interactions. We talk a lot about boundaries and instincts.

We backed completely off of group activities unless they were HIGHLY structured (classes like KinderMusic were fine), and slowly re-entered that milieu once DD was about 7yo.

Introverts really can take-it-or-leave-it with social interactions. We don't need it or crave it.

This is certainly more than possible. DD was very shy and more than a little cautious in public until she was around 33 months then she came out of her shell. She was definitely not a shrinking violet at home so I knew her public introvert persona was not all that "authentic." I think a lot of that had to do with perfectionism.

What worries me though, is that maybe DD is actually more of an introvert who is trying to be an extravert. I was an introvert as a child but learned to be an extrovert because teachers expected me to take on leadership roles. I was always so exhausted and didn't want anything to do with friends after school most days. It's tiring pretending to be someone you're not.

After reading Dude, HK, and Mana's kind replies, I feel like I need to reevaluate my earlier assumptions about introversion. I'm going to spend some time carefully observing DS this week to ensure I'm not conflating perfectionism/sensitivity with introversion.

The vast majority of DS' time is spent one-on-one with me. With me (and DH), he craves constant interaction. If left to his own devices, he'll seek out conversation, collaboration, and intensive socialization. He will ask to be read to for hours on end, will invite me into an imaginary scenario he's concocted, or will volunteer to help me performing a household task. Whether this represents genuine extraversion or a need for considerable stimulation is up in the air, as far as I'm concerned. We literally talk about new material all.the.time. He even talks about this stuff in his sleep! (Last night, he said in his sleep, "Belugas are mammals and they drink their Mummies' milk.")

When around other young children (or my in-laws...LOL!) he alternately plays Goodall or recoils from their company in horror.

When around new adults, he will either hang back with me or voluntarily shake their hand and introduce himself. In almost all cases, adults talk down to him, so he loses interest in their company. Ditto on initiating contact with older children (5+), but we tend to have more success with this group because they lack the self-awareness to tailor their speech to his age, so he hears 5 y/o+ messaging from them.

This stream of consciousness has made me realize that he may be developing a touch of reticence around young children and condescending adults, bordering on misanthropy, regardless of his degree of introversion or his sheer fear of the unpredictability of his age-peers. Hmm. BTDT. It is hereby resolved that we will do minimal age-peer play for a few weeks to see how his public behaviour changes.

Sounds as though you have a good plan. Keep in mind that introversion and extroversion are often oversimplified, as if person is only one of those. In truth, the traits associated with both extremes are numerous and vary among individuals. So, for example, I am very comfortable in small group settings or even with large groups that I know are "friendly;" yet small talk at my child's school events is extremely draining (I avoid it like the plague). My husband, on the other hand, enjoys that type of event but craves silence in the home to recharge his batteries (not easy with two small children!).

I think you make a good point, ConnectigDots. More than anything, I just want to know if what I'm seeing in DS is reactive or reflective of a temperamental tendency. Thanks for the feedback.

Update: It was sensitivities masquerading as introversion, combined with a lack of appreciation that other age-peers aren't as verbal as him. I think, for a time, DS actually thought some of his contemporaries were insane when they didn't listen to his requests, and he responded to them with fear. After all, they were unpredictable to him. I sat back and watched him more closely in these interactions, and he was noticeably doing perspective-taking, but with an adult reaction as his template!

We took a few weeks away from all activities around age-peers and immersed DS2 in social time with adults. After a month, DS is now the cheerful socialite he was previously. He now walks up to people, shakes their hands, and introduces himself again. He's also developed what I like to think of as street smarts, and he will physically retaliate in a non-violent, defensive manner if people get too close for comfort. So, this might involve holding out a hand to block someone approaching him if a verbal request to stay back isn't respected, or a tae kwon do forearm block if someone tries to touch him without his permission.

I now explain to him if interactions with age-peers go sideways that the other individual likely doesn't understand him. He looks like a little Goodall sometimes, standing to the side and observing age-peers with a scrutinizing gaze. I think he's built a mental model of how 2 year olds normally interact, and he now has different expectations for social ability with children than adults. A screechy kid gets met with an eye roll and "we don't behave like that" now, whereas before he would have retreated in fear. This is progress!!

hee - i think i still do that...

Haha, I resemble that!