DS6 is intense! Half the days I feel like I am arguing with a teenager, punctuated by tantrums that take me to the ends of my nerves. He has the most independent, anti-authority attitude I have ever seen, and he is only six. Of course, couple this with his world view which is years ahead of his age, and we are dealing with asynchrony that makes me feel like tearing my hair out-- like today for instance. We are calm easy going parents, but my nerves are fraying. All I want to know, is tell me that it doesn't get logarithmically worse as the years go on. Tell me that when he is a teenager he can't possibly be worse than he is now.

Mine was like that at 6... but once she was a teenager, she spent long stretches in her room with the door shut, only emerging (reluctantly) to eat. And she is now gone at college, I wish she would call to argue more often.

It gets better similar to the way that a complex gyroscope may keep balance better than a simple teeter-totter.

At the same time, it takes a lot of energy, so much energy, and it will likely change you. On the one hand, books such as love & logic, parenting the manipulative child, living with intensity, and a parent's guide to gifted children will help, as will parent forums... on the other hand, the help will be in terms of "welcome to the misunderstood minority of parents of asynchronous children", and learning how to best understand and relate to your asynchronous child... it will not necessarily get better in terms of a child becoming typical or less complex.

Suspending expectations helps many families enjoy the positives in their asynchronous child (who may often feel like a misfit).

It gets better in that parents may learn so much more than they imagined from interacting with their asynchronous child and seeing the world through his/her eyes. A child like this will tend to keep families on their toes! Visit the ultimate-brag thread and the not-really-brag-so-much-as-a-quirky-anecdote thread and the you know you're parenting a gifted child when thread often for refreshment.

I did my only angst phase before I was seven, then kept progressing such that by fifteen people outside of school assumed I was in my twenties. My easy when young sibling went on to be an angsty and troublesome teen.

Understanding, latitude, trust, and communication seem to pay dividends.

When I hear "wait til he's a teenager," I hope my approach is right because at least a case of one says I may be. And wow do I not want to have to eat my words on this.

p.s. when easy going, be sure to communicate early before you pop

On another current thread, intensity was also mentioned: Questions for you all about giftedness

This.

DD at 14 is far easier than she was at 6. Hormones or not, she just lacks the same completely defiant streak that she had then.

Of course, she got worse before she got better. The apex (er-- or perhaps that is actually nadir ) was when she was 5-9yo.

I didn't think that I'd live through it when she was seven, honestly.

On reading other poster's replies, I'll add that while the intensity may remain, it may propel different things over time... angst and defiance (as mentioned by others), but also in-depth study, research, planning, re-planning, refining.

The independence which may now cause a 6-year-old to seem oppositional may later be a positive strength in a teen willing to stand strong for avoiding texting while driving, illegal drug use, underage drinking, etc.

So in these ways it gets better.

Yes, you are right on with your description. This is my experience and how I get through it. The gifted child has asynchronous development and nothing relates to the normal progression by their peers who, say, might have an average IQ of 100. So, you are always experiencing something that the families of the peers cannot relate which is why the gifted families look elsewhere for support. The good news is that in my experience we get that awful adolescent attitude out of our systems very early on and as soon as we have the ability to fully immerse into our passions, we are way more fulfilled and that angst is replaced with excitement about all of the great opportunities that exist. Basically, I hope it makes you feel better to know that what you are witnessing is normal for a child with a gifted IQ.

Oh, good, there is hope! DD7 is very intense, as well, and spends a lot of her time riding my last nerve.

My DD11 is also less defiant than she was. Her biggest intensity years were from about 3 - 7 or 8ish. Age five was my "I don't think I'll make it" year. Now she's hormonal. Good times.

I keep telling myself that DD has given us really excellent practice for the teen years. The thing that concerns me is that then she'll have so many more opportunities to prove just HOW independent she is...

Anyway, it's been up and down for us. Some times have been almost unbearable and others much more livable. We've been in a long "livable" stretch, but it's still not easy.

No solutions here, but I can relate to your DC's intensity and wanted to say that you are not alone...I have an uber-intense DC here, too! Very, very self-directed and independent, extremely bright - but parenting is NOT easy. DC can be defiant, argumentative and typical "parenting advice" doesn't seem to work with this DC. I feel as though I am living through the teen years now, although DC is far from it. Luckily, DC seems to understand that it is important to be much more compliant at school, but at home DC lets loose! It is nice to hear from PPs that there is a chance this might improve!!!

Not alone at all! DD6 has gone from sweetness to you-can't-make-me-do-anything this past year. That and the intense worries (I might be kidnapped at any moment! What if I want to have a baby but I can't find a husband! How will I know what to be when I grow up!) and increasing displeasure at school has been exhausting.

The logarithm is a slowly increasing function of its argument, so being logarithmically worse is less problematic than being exponentially worse as a function of age.

Yeah, I was frantic enough thinking it might be linear.

Well, a logarithmic function always approaches a limit, which makes sense, because a child's rebelliousness may approach (but hopefully never reach) a limit of matri/patricide.

5 and 6 seemed to be the height of defiance for our dd, *so far* - she is only 7 and although still defiant, not just rolling on the floor kicking (most of the time). So that's better.
I could be wrong, but I think the homeschooling may be helping. If we want to be able to influence her and have her accept our say-so, being with her more probably helps.

Ds was a pretty reasonable child, though he had his share of tantrums at 3 and 4. He seems to be maintaining a desire to please. Now at 13 to shock and dismay us he will jokingly roll out a bad word or say NO! when he is really really not into something, but so far doesn't show any more than normal signs of sliding into independence.

Gee that helps.

Sorry to tell you that while it does gets better, it gets worse again as they get older, and them better again. Kind of spirals. We have had good times & difficult times, almost alternative years. So far for us 2nd, 6th have been the worst for us.

Good Luck.

Well at least I have some hope, by some standards. I honestly feel like I can barely think anymore. My brain is so frazzled. Hence, I probably meant exponential, but typed logarithmic, but envisioned linear. If this doesn't peak (or bottom out) soon...... I don't know what. Literally. Can't. Think. Anymore.

DD is 11. It does get better. Unlike when she was little, she can actually be more independent and she can come closer to accomplishing the things she sees in her head. She's also more emotionally mature about her intellect and being different. I recommend getting ready for advanced independence now.

Infancy was rough because she NEVER slept (not behavioral or deliberate but man it took years off our lives). 6-7 was REALLY BAD. 9-10 was also pretty rough. But looking back these times, it's clear to me now that part of the problem was an educational mismatch.

See, we're finally getting smarter about listening to her cues about what she needs academically. The more we can keep her brain busy, the less of a PITA she is. When there's something she doesn't want to do, because of either fear (perfectionism!) or boredom, she will try to get herself into trouble in order to not have to do it. This behavior seems to be at least partially subconscious. When she's forced to keep tight control over her natural inclinations all day in school (not speaking up, avoiding knowing the answers, forcing herself to do tedious busy work that she already knows) it will explode out of her when she's home. When she's desperately lonely because she just can't connect with her peers, she's whiny and clingy and demanding.

Not that she never deliberately misbehaves (she is a child after all and a master manipulator when she wants to be) but that more often the really bad, out of control stuff was because she was suffering in some way she couldn't articulate.

When her intellectual and social needs are met, she's just the sweetest little sarcastic anti-authoritarian you'll ever meet.

This winter has been hard (and her hormones don't help) -- so I went to her school and she'll be switching up some classes in the spring to be more interesting/challenging. I'm looking for some social connections for her as well. I hope this will help... at least for a while.

She was never an easy child and she probably never will be, but it has gotten easier (though it might be more us changing and not her).

When her intellectual and social needs are met, she's just the sweetest little sarcastic anti-authoritarian you'll ever meet.




Do you know my child??

Haha! I've often said DC is at her best when she is busy...so glad it is not just me...



Hilarious! Thanks for giving the rest of us a glimmer of hope for the future...

When my kids were younger, I used to grit my teeth and silently chant "Being strong-willed and independent-minded will be awesome attributes when they are adults." It really did help to remind myself that being compliant pushovers were not qualities I hoped my kids would have. ...Except of course, when it was convenient for ME.

Now that they are teenagers, they choose their battles wrt pushing boundaries at home, and we do more rational negotiation and less digging-in-heels. We appreciate their cynical outlook and questioning of authority and questioning many other things most people take for granted.

Not to say that young teens don't present challenges, just that they are different...

Are you people kidding me? I'm panicking at the idea of a flat function!

Ha HA! Yes MegMeg! Exactly.

DD has recently stopped being defiant to be defiant. She is getting more tactful now and I am suspicious. Is she maturing or is she learning to be diabolical?

She is growing into a female version of Calvin from C & H and I truly embrace that side of her. What bothers me more is that I am also seeing glimpses of Cartman, you know, "Respect my authoritah!"

Phey, do you get enough you time away from your DS? We are starting a drop-off enrichment class so we get a break from each other.

I think you just perfectly described my DS7!

I'm relieved to hear that time does prove to dampen the defiance/intensity. Today was a pretty epic stress day in our house. For the most part I can brush aside her anti authority, questioning everything behavior and even the occasional stares from other moms even though it is EXHAUSTING, it's the intensity with which she or should I say they ( my DS also, although not as bad as DD) need to accomplish/master things themselves without any help from me. Very stressful when they are having a breakdown because they can't get it on the first few attempts (like a new piano piece or math concept) yet they are shouting and screaming NO. I.CAN.DO.IT.MYSELF!!! It's so difficult at the peak of these moments because I so want to step in and say look, let's try it this way, but I have learned that they NEED to try to do it themselves so I have learned to step back for a while. I am hoping this facet of their personalities will improve. I really do.