Hi all, hopefully someone can offer a suggestion or two because we're at a loss!

Brief background--my son is five yrs. old, just started K and is a DYS. On one hand, he likes K, on the other hand, he's completely bored (no surprise). Academically, they say they can enrich him in reading (although he is reading chapter books, so I'm not sure what they'll do in a K class where kids are starting to sound out words), but math is another story. The problem is twofold: one, it's a K-3 bldg. and he can probably complete most of the curriculum in Math already. Two, socially he's having problems (also no surprise). He doesn't know how to relate to the other kids and which often results in behaviors that are disruptive (knocks down other kids' blocks, does karate chops in the air, gets in kids' faces, acts silly etc.) He was recently suspended b/c another girl asked him to hit her, so he did. He explained to us that he thought he was doing the right thing since she asked him to do it (uh boy...).

Anyway, that being said, they're concerned that his behavior isn't necessarily exclusive of the whole gifted/academic thing and suggested a psycho education eval (whatever that is). He's not socially inept or anywhere on any kind of spectrum. He does take a science class after school (has been since last year) where they said he's completely fine. He takes a Jiu Jitsu class where he (at times) is also fine (sometimes he does misbehave and acts silly there too).

Soooo....the question is, what to do with him. Grade skip? How many grades? They think that if he acts like this in K, how will he behave in a higher grade level? (there's also a part of him that likes K). Subject Acceleration? Where? The third grade? Another bldg? He's only five yrs. old. Socially, is this typical of gifted kids or is he just a quirky kid?


We have a mtg. today w/teacher, principal and psychologist (who has already read his IQ and Achievement test and admitted he's never really seen a kid like my son and has little experience w/gifted kids in general)



If anyone has taken the time to read this, thank you--any input would be a huge help.

I don't know what you mean by "concerned that his behavior isn't necessarily exclusive of the whole gifted/academic thing", but I wouldn't let that psycho near my son! Just the sound of it makes me uneasy.

I think a grade skip would be a good starting solution. Subject accelerations might be another option too. However, you definitely need more info. Feeling that, as you say, "he can probably complete most of the curriculum in Math already" doesn't necessarily translate to maxing out of the curriculum in the building. I think you would need to find out what his achievement levels actually are, mapped to their curriculum, to determine further what's appropriate. In the absence of more info on writing ability I couldn't guess at whether a grade skip to second was appropriate skill-wise.

It sounds like you're going to face resistance to acceleration right now because of the behavior issues. You need to do your best to get your son to tone it down, perhaps explaining to him that you can't help get him more appropriate work while the school sees him as acting inappropriately.

I'd also start reading up on behavioral and emotional issues of gifted children; select materials showing that disruptive behaviors can be a consequence of combined boredom and intensity, and give them to the school or at least bring them to meetings.

Why don't you involve your DYS family consultant? This is their bailiwick.

Thanks for the input--much appreciated. Your probably right, he's probably not maxed out of the math curriculum of the bldg (those were the principal's words perhaps to justify that acceleration would be useless--I'm pretty sure they're resistant to the idea).

As for mapping out a plan, that's probably our next step. The psychologist mentioned "benchmark" tests and I also suggested Iowa Acceleration Scale (which he was unfamiliar with)

However, is placing a five year old in a second or third grade class a good idea? If so, then what happens next year? The writing is definitely an issue--not his strong suit and he just started getting OT.


I have called our DYS consultant (more than once) and each time all she's done is recommend or send me links to articles.

I've read some of the social/emotional articles, perhaps bringing them with me to enlighten them is a good idea.

My initial reaction to your post is that you have a "social" and PG child. Would you slot him in the extrovert category? Anyway it looks like to me that he really needs children "like him" to interact with, more than the more typically introverted PGlets. Will they let him just try out a higher level class - 1st or 2nd grade? Do you think you could ask the school if the next level up class might have more children "like" your son? Would 2nd grade? In our very small school system, there are always "pockets" of high achieving children. Kids who are really bright "skip into" those grades, bright kids who are already in those grades don't leave because they have good peers. It kind of builds on itself.

I agree with lucounu about reading on the behavioral and emotional issues. The school needs to understand. And the DYS consultant can help you sort out what you're really after for your son.

edit: cross post. I guess you haven't found that your DYS consultant has been able to help in this case so far.

Sounds like your school system is more understanding of the needs of high achieving kids than ours; the Principal said the last time she's ever heard of a child skipping a grade was about 10 yrs ago. Yup...you read that correctly.

That being said, yes, I would say he's definitely extroverted and I think perhaps that an acceleration is what we should be shooting for (handwriting, however is a big issue).

I will definitely bring some articles w/me today.

Unfortunately, I have to say, I've been a bit disappointed w/our consultant so far.

(((HUGS))) I'm taking my DD8 out of her school today because we finally realize she is just not getting what she needs.

We have had a 3+ years of similar behaviors, except Butter's tend to be more self focused and she hates people in her space.

She was suspended yesterday for a similar incident as well! Her friend, Mr B (also gifted), who is of a sturdier build, often lets her "play rough" with him or abuse him a little bit. He told his mom that it makes her happy, so he lets her. That is so sad and touching at the same time, no? Mrs W, the teacher, removed a reward/consequence system we had in place the previous day, so we (me and Mr B's mom) wonder if Butter's behavior was related to that. She forced him off some play equipment and he hit his back on some poles on the way down Your story just sounds so similar! lol!

I'm curious, who gave the test that allowed you to go DYS in the first place? The school would never give us that, so I wonder if you have already been to a private tester? We are in the process...you need answers, information before you can really make a good decision and to do that, you need the complete picture that full testing will show. Also, an experienced psychologist should be able to guide you in whether it's gifted and bored vs gifted and "something else" or even just "really gifted". I also just finished reading Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis...(the full title is so long) and it had enabled me to see what might happen if I don't change this situation. I will be holding it in my hand while I talk to the principal this morning.

I think it's actually sort of positive that the psychologist (I'm assuming you mean the school's) says he's never seen such test results. Maybe you can help him with suggested reading and info on gifted kids. He might be open. But I also think you need someone who specializes in gifted kids. You can find one through Hoagie's.

I know for us, I am pulling my DD out of school this morning and will get the schoolwork for her to do at home until we decide on something else. We have testing starting next Tuesday, but she finally broke down and told me she didn't want to go back. After over 3 years there, I think she's qualified to make that call...

I think, if you are considering acceleration, you should also read A Nation Deceived. you can download it for free on the internet. It's all about acceleration. Very PRO acceleration even, but I found it quite eye opening.

(((HUGS)))(I think you need them too!)

Yes, our situations sound very similar. After 3 yrs. there, what will you do now? Do you have any other options? Have you considered accelerating her or skipping a grade?

We had the testing done by a private psychologist last year since the same behaviors were such a problem in presch. We decided that once and for all, we need to find out what's going on w/him. Funny, the psychologist handed me the same book to read while I waited for my son. lol

He (the psychologist) didn't seem to feel there were any issues other than being PG. He did say (even on his report)that w/out enough challenging or stimulating activities, he would tend towards acting out since he does have a high energy level.

I called him yesterday to discuss the situation and I had a very awkward conversation w/his wife who informed me that he passed away last month. : ( (he was in I'd say about his 70's, 80's around there)

Sooo....if we were to have further testing, I would now have to find someone else who, as you say, has experience w/gifted kids.

Oh, we found him by calling the gifted school in our area--they recommend psychologists for testing (to meet their entrance criteria). Unfortunately, that school runs about $15,000/yr in tuition; so, that's not an option.

I'd be curious to hear what you decide to do next. I will take a look at the article again -- thanks

currently, my plan is to take my DD out of this school with a "contract". They give you the classwork when you know a child will be out for an extended time. I was already going to make a change over the holidays, but I can't keep sending her there everyday. I really think her self esteem is being damaged at this point. I don't think acceleration by subject is an option because that would mean all the other classes have to coordinate or she has to have individual instruction in the classroom. The teacher claims to be providing enrichment materials and says DD often doesn't want to do them. I think we could grade skip, the kids would be fine (our school is K-12 with less than 400 kids), but some parents in particular would make my life so miserable with their griping about how we rewarded DD's Bad behavior with a grade skip. Trust me, I KNOW them and I would NOT subject my child to that. Our district also does not ability group unless you go to the GATE program, which our school does not have.

So she will do the contract (classwork) at home while we go through the evaluation process. Yesterday it took her about 2.5 hours to finish a day's worth of work, homework, a spelling enrichment activity, 2 cards (on a break between classwork) and 20 minutes of reading (Harry Potter). Yesterday was WONDERFUL.

Our options (without further testing) are the local school. She qualifies for GATE(GT) which is a high ability and gifted kids in one of two classrooms. She might qualify for the seminar 3/4/5 class as well. We also have 2 homeschooling options, one online and one where the kids go to school one day a week. And I have my eye on 2 charters.

But alot will depend on the testing. If she turns out to be HG, I will push for seminar. If the psych reccomends a grade skip, we want to enter as a 4th grader, not pur her in now in 3rd then move her up, that could be awkward.

We have a lot of options and I feel it is well worth the money we will spend to help decide

I agree, the "maxed out of the curriculum in the building" sounds like an excuse to me. I mean, they must have advanced 3rd graders. What do they do with them? Is there a GT teacher or a reading/math enrichment person? They should be able to develop a curriculum for him.

However, it is my understanding that public school is often not a good match for PG kids, perhaps in part because of the asynchrony you are describing. So maybe research some alternatives, if there are any?

Lots to digest here.

First, was the Psych part of a practice and can you get transferred to a new one?

Second, I am not sure where you live, but the Tier 1 privates in my area have a tuition assistance program that supports lower income families so exceptional kids can attend a school that meets their needs. A number get almost a 100% ride. I'd get a list of all the privates in your area, find the ones with the highest number of national merit finalists, and apply. I think once they see the tests that you have, the doors will open. You might be able to get in now or after the winter break and start with a skip to 1st or 2nd. I've seen it happen here.

Next, if the above has not worked out - and it might not - given that this school has not done an acceleration, you may be better off finding a school that has. I'd contact the new psych and ask him or her about the schools in the area and who might be able to help.

Another option is to move into a district that has a good public program. A number will tell you if your child will meet the cutoff and then you can move in with the assurance that his needs will be met.

II think the best analogy I have heard on this situation is akin to a fishing boat. The crew is fishing for herring and one day they get a king salmon. They just throw the salmon back or let it die on the deck because they are in the business of catching herring. That is most public schools.

That's great! I don't think I've ever heard that one before (and it's so true)

Actually, we had the meeting today, and they seemed surprisingly reasonable. They said they're not against grade skipping or acceleration, but they are concerned about his social skills. At times he seems to have no boundaries, he pokes kids to get attention, knocks down blocks, etc. The psychologist said he saw him in the hallway today in the hallway making circles w/his finger in the air. He asked him what he was doing, and he said "making the sign for infinity". bla, bla, bla,

Sooo...they suggested the psychologist and other staff in school do some real thorough academic testing to see where he's at/what he needs. They also suggested that he have a psych eval done by a psychiatrist -- just talk to him and observe his behavior, to get a take on what's going on socially/emotionally. Sounds reasonable, just as long as the Psychiatrist is familiar w/gifted kids etc. so whatever behaviors he's observing aren't misinterpreted.

My PG son went through this @ K. We went with a traditional secular all-day Kindergarten. We informed the teacher of his abilities ( 4 years old could do multi/divis/fractions and reading early-chapter book ( Magic School Bus/Tree House, etc ..)).

We provided her with materials he could do if he was bored and needed to be separated from the other children so he would not be a distraction.

It didn't work out, the teacher really wanted to mold our boy into something he wasn't and it bit her in the butt as he made sure he would make every child miserable until she focused on them and left him alone.

Lots of calls to the office with the final days being told hewas not welcome there any more.

*shrug*

We decided then that acceleration was the only choice for him. We found a Montessori school that was very accepting and allowed our son to go as fast as he wanted, provided he did all the work required like other children in his grade and that his scores were high.

He is 7 now and in 7th grade and the behavior issues have mostly disappeared now that he is challenged all through the day, leaving no time for him to bet bored and into trouble.

He sounds like a five-year-old boy who needs to be more challenged. DC20, PG, 2E, and ADHD, had a lot worse behavior than that when he was younger. It was always better when he was challenged and with other students like him.

I accelerated quite a bit, and it helped me focus during school, rather than act out. I did run into a lot of barriers, but it's easier these days to accelerate through distance learning and talent search programs. Would it be an option to have him grade skipped and starting a distance learning program for math? He could stay with friends and still be challenged without running into building limits in curriculum at a school.

@Cawdor--we actually did try a Montessori school, but they said he wasn't the right fit for them--he was too "exuberant" as I recall them saying : ( It is comforting however, to hear that your son's behavior issues have gotten better!

@LilMick--Funny, my uncle accelerated a couple of grades when he was younger and said it was a horrible experience and he wouldn't wish it on anyone. I guess I have that in the back of my mind. One grade skip and distance learning might be an idea--I would have to explore that a bit further, thanks!