So we've met with the school psychologist to discuss our DS10's significant discrepancies between his WISC IV and WIAT results. We didn't get much out of the meeting. The psychologist didn't offer more insights than what we've gotten from this forum (thanks Dottie and Grinity!) and from the ed. psychologist that tested our son for WISC. We did get confirmation that the equivalent of Total Math for WIAT-III is the "Mathematics" composite.

We also met with the middle school math specialist to start planning for next year. Our DS10 (5th) is working on Algebra 1 independently now. She herself was a GATE students, and she has 3 HG/PG kids of her own. She brought up a couple points for us to consider:

1. Do we want our son to continue working independently in math, or do we want him in a class? She thinks that there is so much to be gained in a classroom. Ideally, of course we want him in a class, but it means we need to slow down now and review more pre-algebra.

2. Once he is accelerated in math, he will stay on that path. Later in high school, we cannot decelerate him. He will stay with the high achievers in HS. She thinks that taking higher math class in college is much better than in HS, esp. since, hopefully, it will be taught by better instructor in college.

Even if we slow him down and have him take Algebra 1 in 6th grade, there is no guarantee that he will be able to do it in a class next year. There will be plenty of scheduling issues to resolve. His school doesn't offer Algebra 1 in the 1st period when all the 6th graders are doing math. Algebra 1 is only offered during the period when 7th and 8th graders are taking math. To complicate matters, he currently is going to 8th grade science and we really want him to continue working with this teacher. There is a chance that we will have to choose which math or science.

With whole-grade acceleration, it may be easier to accommodate both science and math. We have purchased the Iowa Acceleration Manual and have done the calculation ourselves. Based on his score, he is a good candidate for acceleration except for the fact that 6th grade is transition year from elementary to middle school. Fortunately, it is in the same school (it's K-8). On the other hand, he's happy with his current friends and if given a choice, he would definitely want to stay with them.

The principal suggested that we meet in the Spring to talk some more and make the decision. He has been very supportive so far.

What shall we do? I know many in this forum has accelerated their child. Would you mind sharing your thoughts? We're not worried about the immediate future (middle school years), but we're wondering about the high school years... Both my husband and I grew up in Indonesia and only came to the U.S. for college and graduate school. We have no idea what high school is like here, except what we saw on movies

Personally I think the science is harder to replace or do independently than the math at this level. As you point out, a full gradeskip would solve a lot of problems. Since your son doesn't have 2E issues, has good processing speed, and working memory and is HG or PG, I wouldn't worry about missing the bridge year. Or they could re-arrange the schedule for him - that doesn't sound like so much to ask.
There are a lot of ways to slice this dilemma. Several 'not so bad' choices. I would push the school on the Math - perhaps independent study with APS if they are hot to keep him on his age track. I would also ask, politely, if they can do a schedule swap so your son can do science AND math.
I think that part of the key question is if you son is challenged in at least some of his classes. The fit doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be 'good.'

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Dottie is right about all of that. "Deceleration" can be as simple as "I'm not taking a math class this year," or afterschooling something like Discrete mathematics. I didn't take a math course my senior year in high school. I'd already met the graduation requirements, and as long as you have enough credits and you've taken what the state says you must... you can do whatever you want. (Power to the people!! er, sorry. heehee...)

Back on track. You have to do what your heart tells you is right; sometimes that's a slim margin.

We are also planning to delay Calc by placing AP stats before the calculus sequence (thus delaying DiffyQ to college), and holding off any firm decisions regarding just "where" calculus happens. It could be dual enrollment credit, could be AP class via the high school.

DD's a similar case to her son, it sounds. That is, her READING skills are elevated too, so a full-grade skip was no problem at all. (The real problems come about when that isn't enough.... but that's another story.)

I'd be very hesitant to accelerate a child without literacy skills at least a little beyond the destination grade. Writing skill weaknesses are one thing (that's pretty common), but reading skills can create global problems in grade 4 and up.

"I'd be very hesitant to accelerate a child without literacy skills at least a little beyond the destination grade. Writing skill weaknesses are one thing (that's pretty common), but reading skills can create global problems in grade 4 and up"

Is there any research/books/authors that provide estimates for the 'ideal' placement for an accelerated child within a class? I'm sure I've heard around the place that it would ideally an accelerated student should be in the top half of the class? Am I making this up?

jojo

I've heard a lot of benchmarks over the years, but in our experience, the "best" placement is the one that allows your child to easily reach 80% in the coursework, and one in which s/he would have to work for the top 10% of performers in the class.
I wouldn't know what that looks like, however... we've always accelerated DD into material that was EASILY within her reach.

As Dottie says, they seem to cruise at top gear for a while, happily closing any gaps that may have existed prior to the acceleration. It's often more useful to look at what they are doing outside of school for clues about whether or not they could manage the higher level material.

The Iowa Acceleration Manual is a good guide to what "appropriate" looks like for a given child-- the OP can offer more advice there about specifics, as I've not seen it in person.

Would you actually accelerate a child again then if s/he wasn't in that spot (having to work to be in the top 10%)? In my dd12's instance, even immediately after she skipped, she was still easily in the top 1-5% in all subjects except math. Math is one where she probably has had to work to be in the top 10%. At this point, it isn't a ton of work, but she doesn't get an A+ simply for showing up.

We have no plans to further accelerate, though, b/c further acceleration wouldn't be appropriate in that one subject (math) and it seemed to me that it needed to be appropriate in all subjects for grade acceleration. The unfortunate thing in middle school (and elementary, for that matter), is that math is the only subject where most schools are willing to subject accelerate. Literacy would be the one where dd has really needed more subject acceleration and has coasted her entire school career.

Am I wrong to think that high school next year will offer more challenge not just more quantity?

My dd skipped 6th grade this past year and it has been wonderful. Bridge year?? I'm not sure about that. The school here said that 6th grade is alot of repeat material. She would have been miserable.

My dd skipped a "bridge year" as well -- 5th, which is the last year of elementary here.

That's pretty much what I'd say for my dd in most areas, too. She has had a combo of A+s and As throughout middle school with mostly A+s in her strong subjects with very little effort other than time. She has a large quantity of work, but it hasn't been hard for her.

In 6th grade, she had some catch up to do in math due to skipping that year and it being a subject that comes less intuitively to her and she did work to keep her A. There have been a few other times where that has been the case throughout middle school in math as well -- such as the start of this year in Algebra b/c the teacher seemed to be approaching the class as an independent study endeavor for the kids with little instruction on her behalf. Once the teacher got more engaged in teaching, she's been keeping an A without much work but it isn't an A+ and I'm sure that she isn't the strongest student in the accelerated class.

I'm really hoping that high school, like you saw with your oldest, is a step up in terms of learning but not a huge step up in terms of quantity b/c large amounts of work isn't a good fit for her.

Sorry to repeatedly post! That's good insight, though, kcab. We've found that to be true as well. Generally here decisions regarding math subject acceleration are made in 3rd grade. The kids who don't subject accelerate in 3rd or 4th grade have a really difficult time being accelerated later even if they meet the achievement score cut-off. The tendency is to keep them in grade level accelerated classes at that point.

We did get around that with dd10 this year but only due to a GT teacher's desire to keep dd at the school b/c we were pretty clear that the options we had at the start of the year weren't working.

The kids who have been accelerated also have a significant advantage in terms of continuing to test high enough to be eligible to do so in middle school. For instance, to take 7th grade math in 6th grade, you have to pass the end of 6th grade math exam with something like a 70% as well as having a certain MAPS math score. The kids who have done the 6th grade math in 5th grade are, obviously, at a distinct advantage in terms of both that test and the level of knowledge they have for the MAPS test.

We've done full grade skips along with further subject accelerations. I agree with a couple of previous posters in that workload has to be considered. The only other issue we've run into is with organization. DS gets A's on all of his tests, but has some trouble with due dates on homework. His school doesn't allow any late assignments which has him holding at a B in all of his classes.

For what it's worth, I don't really consider it a bridge year when the child is staying at the same school.

I hope so too, but you won't know until you ask around. Some high school have heterogeneous classes, so if that were the case, it might be time for another skip. Also - in high school there is usually enough flexibility to do some classes at one grade level and others at another. If there are honors classes then there will be a step up, but will that step be an intellectual one or a work load step - hard to know and probably depends on the teachers/school culture.

My son is in 9th grade at a private school this year, and did 9th grade in a public school last year. The work load is a bit more this year, but he's much more able to handle it at the expected age. The public school introduced leveled classes for the first time in non-math subjects and the 9th grade Honors teachers appeared to be 'in charge' of weeding out the 'not Honors Material' kids(forgive me - their tone, not mine!) kids. I wish I had a nickle for every time my son heard from a teacher or guidance counselor "Well of course the kids are all overwhelmed - it's the first time they have had any real competion after cruising for K-8! If it's too difficult, just drop down to the college prep classes!"

If you can ask around parents of older kids (say in the Robotics or Debate Team) and get the inside story, that's the best.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thanks. I'm working on getting more info. Dd will be doubling up in science and taking pre-AP Bio along with another science class b/c she wants to accelerate in science. She has another pre-AP class planned (lit) and then the std fare. Math isn't leveled except that the kids who are subject accelerated in math would be in Algebra II and the kids who are needing extra support there would be in Algebra I. Dd, who is in the middle (accelerated in grade classes but not subject acceleration) will be in Geometry.

She's opting not to do the pre-AP history course b/c she really doesn't love history & b/c she has a pretty heavy load of other stuff planned. The guidance counselor told the group at the registration info night something like what you said about expecting to be overwhelmed. She said that kids who are taking all three pre-APs (history, lit, and bio) should expect 5 hrs of homework a night. Since dd will only be in two of those, who knows, but that sounds truly unreasonable to me.

That's because you aren't counting the non-'pre-AP' classes that might well work as study halls for the 'pre-AP' classes.

Srry, didn't mean to scare you. Keep checking around, but that sounds totally reasonable with the double sciences and the preAP lit. In the public 9th grade, my son took one elective that wasn't honors level, and he said about it: 'Now I know why I used to pound my head against the desk in elementary school.' ((pout/sad/sputtery laughter)) Seriously - he go 99s on every test and assignment in there, and did use it as a study hall for his other classes.

It's just so hard to know....
Grinity

So, you think that 5 hrs a night is a reasonable expectation for high school? I took every AP class available in high school (bio, chem, physics, lit, history...) and I had very little homework as I recall. I don't know how kids sleep or have any social lives or part-time jobs like we all did if they are in school for 7 hrs/day and then expected to do 5 hrs of homework when they get home!

No, but I think the threat of 5 hours of homework a night is reasonable. There is a huge different.

While looking for schools, we found one with an enforced 2 hour/night study hall. I steered towards that one and away from the ones with enforced 3 hour a night study halls. Some kids are going to need to spend more than aloted time, but I doubt more than a very few need less.

((shrugs))
Grinity