Ok, as some of you may remember, we moved (again) over the summer to a new city, and thus a new school for DD7. One thing that clinched the deal was that we were able to get DD into a full-time gifted program at a public school. I know, I know, I know, even ft gt programs may not be enough for some kids, or even what a kid needs. But, after an awful year last year for her we were very hopeful that she would finally be at a school that knew what to do with her.
Well, we're almost done with our first quarter of school and it has not been going well. Until this past week there was no differentiation, the work she was given in 3rd grade was easier than what she had done last year in gr 2! She was miserable and didn't want to go to school anymore.
We had a parent teacher conference (which DH had to go to because I was on a field trip with my own students and couldn't get out of it - but, he did really well for his first time advocating ) and I still don't know if we should be hopeful or frustrated with things. They did tons of testing at the beginning of the year to see the level of all of the kids, since there were a number of new ones, and had just gotten the results figured out. On the reading comprehension test, they had taken an end of the year test for gr 3 (meaning the test that they will take at the end of this school year). Since it is a gifted class, they were hoping that all of the kids would know at least 30/60 questions. Well, DD got 55/60!! Apparently they have never had a student get that high a score at the beginning of the year. So, the teacher finally agreed that she no longer had to do the 3rd grade reader, since she was obviously above that. They also took a math test, which DD did not finish because of issues with timed math tests (see previous posts about rocket math), but even without finishing, she still got a 62%! (DH, at this point sneaked a peek at some other scores on the teacher's list and he said there were only a few other scores near DD's.) The teacher then said that math differentiation would be occurring soon, and this is why seats were changed - to have them in groups closer to their ability levels.
Well, this meeting was 2 weeks ago, and DD is still using the 3rd grade reader! Her homework is still so incredibly easy it is ridiculous, and she is still not thrilled to be going to school, but is complaining less.
The only bright spot so far was that last week, the students finally had the opportunity to pre-test out of the current math chapter (on introducing multiplication). If the child scored above an 85% they could do a project instead of the math chapter. Well, DD was the only one to score above 85%! So she happily started and completed the project given in 1 math class.

Here is where the uncertainty of what to think comes in. While we are happy that she has started to get the chance to pre-test out of topics she already knows, it is pretty discouraging that she is the only one in a class of 18 to be able to do so.
We also found out that until last week, they had not actually seen her file with her WISC IV and WJ-III scores, or her file from her last school. We even hand delivered the information to them when we registered her so that they would have a chance to look it over before school started. Why would a teacher in a magnet program not insist on seeing each kid's file before the start of the year to see where they were coming from?

I don't really think I am asking for advise here or anything, but I just needed to rant a bit about my frustrations. With our move to a new place, I have not found someone here to talk to about it all yet. I have only met 1 other parent from her class, and that was not for long enough to establish much of a conversation.

Thanks for listening.

3rd grade reader for a full time gifted program? Yikes!
Sounds like you have good reasons to be concerned.

Kerry - I'm glad that the school is starting to see your DD's abilities. And go dad!

I see one of your concerns is that DD is the only one in the class getting the high scores. Is there any possibility that she could join the next grade for a couple of subjects? Or any possibility that she's across-the-board ahead and might do better accelerating all the way into 4th? Acceleration, either by subject or grade, can sometimes be an easy way to fix the mismatch problem. Any chance there are math/reading classes in 4th at the same time as your DD's 3rd grade class?

The Iowa Acceleration Scale is a great tool to determine whether acceleration (grade or subject) would be a good fit: Iowa Acceleration Scale Since the school has a FT gifted program, it might have these forms.

She's already been accelerated once, so she is 7 in gr 3, so we have been reluctant to think about another promotion, but if things continue as they are we may look into it more seriously.
She is definitely "across the board" ahead, so I know we have to come to terms with another possible grade skip at some point, probably in the near future, rather than later.

Sorry Kerry - I should have checked my facts before! I'm sorry that the bare facts (unaware of the grade skip) do make it look like another acceleration might help. I think these early elementary years, where there is so much basic stuff and so much repetition, must be the hardest for HG kids. Good luck!

Yes, that is frustrating. The harsh realization of how gifted she is can be difficult to swallow at times I am sure. We have been there too : ) DS6 isn't in a gifted school or anything, but even if he were we would be going through the same thing. The standard gifted curriculum isn't geared towards HG/PG kids. So...I wonder if they could keep her in 3rd grade but just do subject acceleration in another older class. That is what DS6 does. He has had one grade skip and 2 more skips into a 4th grade class for math. For reading they have not skipped him into another class, just does some more individualized work and comprehension stuff in the classroom. We may have to change that in the future but we will discuss that at the next conference. Again, he is gifted accross the board as well but it is nice because he is still able to stay with kids closer to his age for specials and lunch, etc.

And about the school not looking at her scores beforehand, I know some teachers hate looking at that information beforehand and would rather see firsthand what students can do. They are afraid it will cloud their perception of the student. I find that pretty absurd, but working in schools I have heard that several times. And some just don't look at any of the stuff from previous schools.

I hope your relationship with the school stays good and that you are able to continue to advocate and that they will be open to new things : )

Well, I'm thinking of changing the title of this post to "losing hope and getting more frustrated".
DH wrote to DD's teacher this week to inquire when the differentiation in reading would be starting, and what she is doing since she is not doing the chapter on multiplication. (We know she has made up a game and is now planning an imaginary trip which requires she do 2 and 3 digit multiplication, but only because she told us about them, so we thought we'd see what the teacher said she was doing.) Imagine our surprise when the teacher wrote back and said that they were already differentiating reading! And that the writing journals they were keeping based on the books they're reading is it because they are all reading books at their own level! This journal is not checked for anything but that each entry is a page long and has the proper heading on the page. If the child doesn't write a full page it doesn't count and they have to do another one! It does not matter if the only thing that makes the entry a page is large writing or a picture drawn to go with the entry (DD has done both because she can't think of anything else to say. ) There is no check that the books written about are at the appropriate level or that the writing is well done.
The teacher also said that the issue is that she can not find books at DD's reading level that are appropriate for her age, so she is having to have her do some of the 3rd grade reading materials. This in particular annoyed us because all she has to do is go to the Scholastic site and it allows teachers to search for just this type of book! (thanks for the info from the ultimate book thread here) Since all schools use scholastic a lot she should know this option is available.

She then went on the indicate that it was "county policy to enrich students within the grade level and not progress them into the next year level material"!! It absolutely infuriates me that this is a gifted teacher's response. It is no different than what we've gotten the last couple of years with teachers who've had no experience with gifted kids. And, I work in the district, and I know of other programs that do subject accelerate students who are that far ahead.

I sent an email back to the teacher letting her know we were very disappointed in her response and asked her to explain things a bit more, but we haven't heard back from her. I also looked up the guidelines from the county web-page and it does not say that they don't allow subject acceleration anywhere - it's not even hinted at!
It all makes me think that our EP meeting Wednesday morning will be very interesting.

Can you get a copy of Some of My Best Friends are Books? It has excellent suggestions for appropriate books for advanced gifted readers that are not disturbing/violent/inappropriate.

Is there a possibility of sending in books that your child could read at school, so that you can select appropriate ones?

I've heard the same thing from gifted teachers--that material should enrich without accelerating. Not sure how this is supposed to work...

I will look into that book - it sounds just like what we need.

We had our EP meeting and we stretched it into a "please explain to us what you are doing because we're not seeing much happening" meeting. It was overall disappointing.
We had to pick goals that they would work on with her to strengthen her strengths and this would in turn strengthen her weaknesses. (None of which are actually academic, but more personality things!) So, they are going to work on her leadership skills because she is more of a boss than a team leader, and her creativity to see what different ways she can show her understanding.
It was obvious that her teacher was very nervous about the meeting and was unsure how we would react to things. When we explained (again) that DD's frustration will never come through at school because she saves it all until she gets home, and gave examples of what happens. DT said "I know you said that, but I just have such a hard time believing that because she is always engaged and compliant and interactive in class, and always seems happy and content. It just seems so strange that we'd have no indication at all." At this point I said that we see the signs long before she reaches the point of not being able to control herself at school and we step in to do something about it, that is why they won't see it - it is unfair to DD to let things go that far before doing something.
They did decide that part of the problem was that they didn't really know what level DD's reading is really at because the last testing results were from 2 years ago! So, they decided to give her a reading comprehension test. to see exactly what level she is at. (We should have the results this week.)
They also reiterated that they don't do subject acceleration, only enrichment. I think what this means is that they will teach the kids high level skills, but they will still be tested on the 3rd grade level because they are only doing "enrichment" and not actually expecting them to perform at a higher grade level. I'm going to ask for more explanation about this idea next meeting we have.
The other "interesting" thing we got confirmed is that even though it is a gifted magnet program, not all of the kids in the class are actually gifted! About 1/2 of the class meet the standard of being gifted (a gifted checklist score of >25 or an IQ of >= 130) the other half is simply high academic achievers whose teachers felt that they would benefit most from a gifted program. One of DD's friends at school is in this group of high achievers and I was talking to her parents last week and they were saying how they love the program and are so happy with how much their DD is being challenged in it! She is working hard to keep up, but is loving it. They were a bit shocked when we said that DD is not being challenged and is actually a bored with it all.

We don't really know what to do now. We had such hopes for the program and are now so disappointed we're sort of in a slump of "what else are our options?"

I'll keep you posted.

This is from the Gifted Child's Survival Guide.

"I have the right to read at a pace and level that matches my ability, no matter what grade I�m in. I have the right to discuss what I read with my intellectual peers, regardless of their age. I have the right to reread many books and not finish every book I start. I have the right to use reading to explore new and challenging information and to grow intellectually. I have the right to read in-depth about topics of my own choosing. I have the right to learn advanced vocabulary words and literary concepts. I have the right to be guided toward the best literature, rather than be told what I must read. I have the right to read several books at the same time. I have the right to discuss my reading choices with others, without having to defend those choices. I have the right to be excused from reading material that I�ve already learned."

Kerry,
in my humble opinion you shouldn't hesitate to let your daughter skip another grade. If she is "the Boss" rather than the "team leader" and she is already a year younger than her classmates, I am thinking she is clearly not with her true peers. My oldest went through the same thing and was so much happier after skipping to the grade with her true peers (and she happily quit being so bossy because her peers were more willing and able to challenge/compete with her). My youngest was so physically small and socially immature that we decided not to have her skip and in hindsight I think it was a huge, HUGE mistake. I wish I had known about the "some of my best friends are books" back then...my daughter read "strawberry girl" off of the accelerated reader list at her magnet school in 2nd or 3rd grade...talk about inappropriate...

I love the quote above. I wish I had found this site 10 years ago

"Classic" books that won awards back in the 40s and 50s are just full of inappropriateness. I was looking at the suggested reading list for one of the private schools near us, and "A Cricket in Times Square" was on it. That one got pulled from the giant ebay box-o-books, because the gratuitous racism completely overshadowed the story.

Nik - I know, we're coming to terms with the idea of having her skip another year. I think a big part of it is that she is our 1st and we still see her as a little kid, and it is hard to think of her with the "big kids".

I hadn't thought of what you said about her not being bossy if she is with people who are truly her peers. But, now that I think about it, when she plays with one of her friends, there is never an issue of her being bossy, or them not getting along or anything that you worry about when kids play together. In fact they play together so well that as soon as they see each other they disappear and only re-appear to ask for food or drink! This is such a novelty for us that I didn't connect the two until you mentioned it. This friend is 1 1/2 years older than her, and is also gifted, but probably not quite as much as DD and they are a perfect match for each other. He gets her to play dragon battle games and she gets him to dress up like a prince (in her dress up clothes) and "rescue" DD2 from the evil dragons they are fighting. (We adults just need to be careful when we enter their area or we may become the evil wizard who rules the dragonland.)

She did her reading diagnostic test last week and we got an email that the teacher would like to discuss it with us, so we'll see what she has to say when we meet.

Yeah, in terms of inappropriateness of books her teacher last year (grade 2) had her reading Where the Red Fern Grows, and Cricket in Time Square!

Inappropriate = asking a 2nd grader to research beavers at home on goggle. I haven't even figured out to address that one, especially since the teacher involved is trying so hard to do appropriate stuff for dd.

Set your Google to safe search. I just tried beavers on mine and there were no inappropriate listings.

Now that I think about it she came home with a list of urls from the teacher. Whatever, it was weird and inappropriate. The computer now has a password.

"Beavers" OMG, that's awful! It reminds me of the song that all of the campers would sing at the GT summer camp my girls went to for years: "The Beaver Song". It was so cute, with hand gestures and everything.

We didn't realize until someone explained it to us years later that it was actually a really crude ditty originally made up by men on a hunting trip. The camp director had learned it from her husband and oblivious, introduced it to the kids. It became a camp ritual and her husband never had the heart to tell her.

Kerry, there are going to be pros and cons the cons being that she will be exposed to things earlier that you may not like and then what to do when she graduates - mine went straight to college on an academic scholarship at 15 and she was miserable even in the honors dorm she was surrounded by party-ers and she felt very lonely and out of place. She joined a service fraternity and couldn't even walk dogs at the shelter because of her age. Not trying to discourage you, I think skipping was the right thing at the time but if I had it to do over I might have tried to have her do something else for 2 years after high school rather than go straight to college.

Just gotta vent, what is WITH children's books where a beloved animal gets shot or mauled to death? Where the Red Fern Grows, Sounder, Old Yeller, The Yearling . . . Sheesh.

My google search uses the default settings ("moderate" not "strict") and I can't find anything "inappropriate" by googling beavers. So I don't see what this teacher's done wrong, personally. Would you want her to avoid every word that has ever been part of a double entendre? Or did you mean that you don't think it's appropriate for a 2nd grader to be doing internet research at all?

Having Googled for lyrics, I come up with something completely harmless. I can't imagine grown men either inventing or singing a song (with hand motions!) that goes "Beaver Four, Beaver Five, Let's All Do the Beaver Jive" and thinking it was "really crude."

Another vote for "there's nothing inappropriate about kids learning about beavers from Google," sorry.

I know it's so cute and harmless, that's why none of us realized it- my daughter explained the origins after she went back as a counselor and was "informed" (or maybe she was misinformed?) Either way, we cant sing the song anymore without it feeling creepy...now I'm going to have to go google it for myself!

Whatever search engine dd used, she ended up with porn type stuff. Maybe it ads. I do know that there were a lot of images of women. DD was on the computer with her dad and typing in urls that had been provided by her teacher. DH was able to hit the back button and no harm done, but what ever happened it was an issue with multiple sites. The teacher is so sweet and I am guessing doesn't spend a lot of time on the internet/wouldn't recognize beaver as a slang word/the school intranet is more secure and filtered and our computers at home. I'm not outraged, but I do think it was odd and ironic since the same school is so cautious about grade skipping dd due to exposure to more mature students. Perhaps in my rambling I am making more sense?

The Red Fern Grows is a downer.

I see the real problem that your computer is not set up to allow safe Internet searching. I don't see how putting a password on will really resolve that problem. Totally inappropriate stuff can come up even in response to very appropriate searches and having a parent there isn't going to stop that. It takes about a minute to set Google to "strict" searching. I can't say it will get everything possibly inappropriate, but in our experience it works to get nearly everything. Also, I would suggest installing adblocker. It is free. Whether it is assigned in school or not most kids are going to be able to search at some point.

Well, DH had the meeting about the reading test results and I am more frustrated now than before! Maybe I'm not understanding the test, or what they were actually looking for in this test. We thought it was to see what her reading comprehension level is, but it appears that they were really testing her oral reading fluency (speed, number of missed pauses for punctuation, mispronouncing words, etc.). If someone knows more about this test, please jump in and explain it to me.

She took the DRA2 K-3 test.
On the fiction reading part she had 2 miscues not self-corrected, and ignored punctuation. Her oral reading rate came out to be 192 wpm.
These numbers some how say that her independent reading comprehension is GE 4.5, Level O, Lexile 600-675.

On the non-fiction part, she had either figured out or had been told to be more careful about punctuation because she took exaggerated pauses, and slowed down her reading speed.
She had 4 miscues not self-corrected, 2 self-corrected, she had omissions, insertions and made substitutions for visually similar words (like the and their)(don't know how many, it didn't say). Her oral reading speed was 120 WPM.
These numbers lead to a GE of 3.8, Level O and a Lexile of 575-600.

According to DH, the part she scored the lowest on required her to write a paragraph about the important information from the nonfiction reading. She apparently thought all of the information was important because she knew little about wolves before reading this passage.

The thing that I find most frustrating is that 2 years ago her reading level was diagnosed as being at 5th grade. How could she have gone down so far in 2 years? Also, based on what she can tell us about books she reads at home, her comprehension level is much higher than a 3rd grader. (If she tests to be at grade level, I can't imagine what level most of her classmates would test to be at, based on what we know about them!)

It seems like one of the things they will be working on based on these results is her writing of summaries, and improving her written ability to explain what she read. I know she, and all kids, need help with this, the thing that makes me angry is that we have not seen 1 writing piece from school that has any teacher comments on it about what needs improvement and what is good! It is almost December, and the teacher says she is working on writing a lot in class, but we have no indication of anything being done. ARGH!

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.